mind game? someones using projectiles on me the whole game and i play a short range char and you think theres going to be a mind game? just because someones a predictable player doesnt mean theyre going to lose until someone decides to use another whorish strategy like theres.

Yes there is mind game you use to get close to him and use when you're right by him. If he starts running when you get close next time you get some what close but do something different, like quick turn around grab or something. You can develop a tatic to not let him be able to spam at all. You can't tell me simply because someone has long range they're going to be top tier dominating all short range character?

If someone is predictable how can they not easily lose? If you know that he is always going to shoot in a certain patern dodging them should just be simple. If you know when you get close to him he'll do a smash you can dodge it and punish. Doing the same thing over and over again isn't a bright idea as people catch on and counter.

The bottom line is spamming doesn't effect the game as much how each character is built and how diversely the player uses him/her.

whatever. i think you need to go use ganon and play a zelda user spamming b forward to figure out that you cant and wont be able to do shit very easily.

spamming doesnt really effect the game at all. its just the way some people play all the time. they dont care about the chars but they care about winning and if they think theyve got something by god theyll use it till the day they die.

^ it can still be done... its just SUPER annoying since it takes so long to close the distance with his running speed. but more annoying than zelda is pit... so be thankful you weren't facing one of those

Some of Ganon move can be used to close distance. Let's say he's using his forward B towards you then when it's near you down B since he can't move the the fire move backwards he's forced to let it go. I don't play Ganon so I wouldn't really know how hazerdous Zelda is vs Ganon. I do have experience with Zelda spamming forward B I just dodge/air dodge :x It's rather a slow move so you can close distance pretty well while it's going towards you.

I don't know I might be up for that challenge of facing a Zelda with Ganon though I might do horribly. Do you just fight with random Zelda online? or is it a rl friend? even then our distance is pretty far (I'm FL) that it would probably lag :x

^ side b and down b have too much lag to be used as closing moves. if you try it they'll just catch you with the explosion mid lag. you gotta just work your way towards them with jumps into air dodges and side steps when you land. its annoying to have to do but its pretty much the only way.

i have 3-4 friends online id say i know and play with out of 59. still everyone i play brawl with i only know online.

lag will kill you. that and i should probably work on side stepping.

cant say ive had a real problem with pit players yet then again i havent had many 1v1s with any pits.

I see, I thought it was a pretty fast move from what I see but I guess I didn't see it right then :x Ganon is an interesting character cause of his speed and until I can actually utilize short jumps and meteor smash well I don't think I can go far with him x3

hoho....I beat an Ike online using jiggly my fav characther... ^^

what move? i dont worry about short hops too much. his meteor smash isnt as easy to use as it was in melee. too many chars get more air then him for it to work.

His down b that I mention that could have close distance but spiff says it's too slow so I guess it's not a real good idea.

On a side note I did play some people with Ganondorf, not Zelda, and it seems that the usual style I play that I apply to random character I use somewhat works for for him. The thing I have to get use to is that his smash range isn't as far as Olimar x3 His side smash is such a great finishing move, such high launch power. I manage to hit a few time with my mid-air down b, which was pretty deadly. I like his forward b as well but at times it doesn't reach, I'll have to learn its range better x3 pretty interesting character.

his b+down does work against someone that spams b w/pikachu. you just have to grind it hard but it will drive them down.

I guess with the comonon combo i use, when i get knocked off i use roll out to recover/damage, hit him up/pound, guard the returning blow, and then aim carefully and than use rest. If i hit it which is 7/10 times, i manage to KO or get them really far off so i can recover. If i miss......Well.....

Of course, air dodging might dodge the rest or pound...

And then pure killing spree follows

But u need real skills to master jigglypuff xD and aim

its not the speed of the move itself its the fact that after the move's animation is done he sits there for quite a while before you can do anything else.
to your next post:
my favorite ganon moves for killing are his air moves. all of them have killing power. try u tilting into a crowd of people in 1v1v1v1s haha the results can be funny

I agree. Jigglypuff is actually pretty decent. (But any character with a crazy "roll/spin/charge" eg.: Jiggly, Yoshi, Sonic, Wario, Meta usually lead me to a self-destruct.)

My fav. 5 are as follows:

R.O.B. (Main)
Fox
Toon Link
Mario
Peach

R.O.B and Peach take some strategy, but are great characters.

(My list MAY change after this post...)

My point is that everyone has a CHANCE, but some have more in the hands of other people.

(Also, I'd choose to play as Peach over Ike. Really.)