Why MetaKnight (MK) is the most Broken Character in SSBB

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-11-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow*91

first off, i'll occasionally take Meta for fun but i won't lie, my Meta sucks.
i'm actually a Kirby and Olimar user. and although both have an unfavorable match-up against Meta, i only have trouble with top Meta's.

if you want to claim i'm biased in my opinion then fine, but its only because i don't see Meta as a threat nor do i see him worthy of a ban.
in fact i could similarly claim you are biased likely cause you probably have massive trouble with Meta. and most people that want Meta banned are ones that are almost always losing to him, just like most against banning him use him as thier main.

so as i said, we could both read this argument and while i would claim it proves Meta is not broken, you would claim it proves he is. and we both would have many that would agree with one and disagree with the other. so this thread has really done nothing but prove Meta is the best, broken or not.

Wrong, this thread did not go to waste and did indeed prove that Meta Knight is truly broken. Look at all the views, that for me is enough. Only a select few had the balls to actually comment. You could bring up what you said about "not proving anything" about ANY debatable situation. Just because most of the people remained with the same opinion (which isn't even necessarily true, but even if only a few changed, this post wasn't a waste) doesn't mean that the thread proved nothing. I was simply stating reliable facts and reliable information that most people should be able to cope with and relate to. I made lots of statements where people could interpret in their own ways, and the most stubborn people (such as yourself) cannot believe that Meta Knight is indeed broken and absolutely overpowered. Highest rate of winning by far in tournaments doesn't just prove he's the best, and is not a mere coincidence. The fact that Smash Back Room (the one's that "matter" in the decision-making process) even had a VOTE as to whether or not ban Meta Knight for good from competitive gameplay/tournaments is proof enough. Banning a character based solely on the fact that they are "the best" has no place in logical thinking. There's usually a "best" character, but to the extent in which that character has been overworked is what I was focusing on here, in our case, Meta Knight in SSBB.

Shadow*91 · 11-11-2009, 04:51 PM

you know what? i give up.

i have said my views and argued them, just as you and others have. and while i claim this thread proves Meta is not broken, i'm apparently wrong when there's no right or wrong to be had.

also you continually bring up the fact that "the SBR had to vote about whether Meta should be banned" as if that is proof he is broken. in the end though, the top Smash players in the world decided he's not. isn't that good enough for you? many don't argue it because if the very best in the world said he's not broken then they just accept it. and there are many anti-Meta strategies out there as well that defeat Meta quite easily.

and yes this thread is pointless because whether or not you manage to convince every Wiichat reader that Meta is broken(which he's not), you won't change the fact that he's not banned.

BoZzy · 11-11-2009, 05:36 PM

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-12-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

Hahahahaha I haven't been angered for a split second about this debate since my creation of this thread. I have a goal in mind and that involves having to COMMUNICATE with people and explain my side and listen to theirs. The attempt to go through with a controversial topic in a calm and proper way is a challenging one, but Isn't the point of a forum to discuss, ask, and inform? So what does it matter to you how long this post has been going on for, I have the right to continue the discussion and await the voicing of opinions of others. Not to mention, what I stated are more facts than anything else, things that people should be aware of.

A character, for instance, who only takes damages from grabs, IS broken, overpowered, and should NEVER be used, THAT is a fact, it is NOT an opinion. I HAVE indeed proven to all those skeptical through realistic means that Meta Knight is INDEED broken. If you read through my posts carefully and not pick and choose certain parts, you would see that I touched on every topic and refuted all claims otherwise (which is what is done in a debate, yes, ALL are attempted to be refuted).

FinalFantasyVII · 11-14-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

Yeah dude anyone can just spit out what you did in a matter of seconds. "Oh, this thread proves nothing; IN FACT, it even helps to prove, if not PROVE, that Meta Knight is actually the WORST character in the game. Lets go and close this thread".

BORING and UNREASONABLE. This information Turk brings up on this thread is opinion-based, but falls under being experience-based. I mean seriously, how do we make decisions in any case? We go to the people who have the most EXPERIENCE and allow them to make the right choice when they are reasonably deemed the right one to do so. If enough people don't like something, it is usually dealt with and revoked. In fact, you could say that ANYTHING is opinion-based. Your whole statement is an opinion! "This thread should be closed". Well, we shouldn't listen to YOUR opinion because it isn't valid, and is probably biased. Not to mention it is completely opinion-based, so it holds no weight. OH the irony.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-20-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalFantasyVII

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

Yeah dude anyone can just spit out what you did in a matter of seconds. "Oh, this thread proves nothing; IN FACT, it even helps to prove, if not PROVE, that Meta Knight is actually the WORST character in the game. Lets go and close this thread".

BORING and UNREASONABLE. This information Turk brings up on this thread is opinion-based, but falls under being experience-based. I mean seriously, how do we make decisions in any case? We go to the people who have the most EXPERIENCE and allow them to make the right choice when they are reasonably deemed the right one to do so. If enough people don't like something, it is usually dealt with and revoked. In fact, you could say that ANYTHING is opinion-based. Your whole statement is an opinion! "This thread should be closed". Well, we shouldn't listen to YOUR opinion because it isn't valid, and is probably biased. Not to mention it is completely opinion-based, so it holds no weight. OH the irony.

hahaha very well put, VII. Thanks for the comment and defending my position.

BoZzy · 11-20-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalFantasyVII

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

Yeah dude anyone can just spit out what you did in a matter of seconds. "Oh, this thread proves nothing; IN FACT, it even helps to prove, if not PROVE, that Meta Knight is actually the WORST character in the game. Lets go and close this thread".

BORING and UNREASONABLE. This information Turk brings up on this thread is opinion-based, but falls under being experience-based. I mean seriously, how do we make decisions in any case? We go to the people who have the most EXPERIENCE and allow them to make the right choice when they are reasonably deemed the right one to do so. If enough people don't like something, it is usually dealt with and revoked. In fact, you could say that ANYTHING is opinion-based. Your whole statement is an opinion! "This thread should be closed". Well, we shouldn't listen to YOUR opinion because it isn't valid, and is probably biased. Not to mention it is completely opinion-based, so it holds no weight. OH the irony.

Do me a favor next time, and read my post a little bit better next time. What I say is something nobody here could blurt out, unless that have physical proof, of course. I've been part in the SSBB discussion through Nintendo planning each character's moves. Yet... You say my motion was opinion based? O_o Know what, just 're-read' my post, if you are even smart enough to do that, then tell me what you think. I merely brought a fact out to all you ladies complaining about MK, and if you don't want to listen to it, which I know you all won't, then keep on debating over this pointless subject. BTW: Nice epic-fail trying to pull out the 'OH THE IRONY' phrase. Try again next time.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-21-2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalFantasyVII

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. **That's just an example of what I'm trying to say.** So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread.

Yeah dude anyone can just spit out what you did in a matter of seconds. "Oh, this thread proves nothing; IN FACT, it even helps to prove, if not PROVE, that Meta Knight is actually the WORST character in the game. Lets go and close this thread".

BORING and UNREASONABLE. This information Turk brings up on this thread is opinion-based, but falls under being experience-based. I mean seriously, how do we make decisions in any case? We go to the people who have the most EXPERIENCE and allow them to make the right choice when they are reasonably deemed the right one to do so. If enough people don't like something, it is usually dealt with and revoked. In fact, you could say that ANYTHING is opinion-based. Your whole statement is an opinion! "This thread should be closed". Well, we shouldn't listen to YOUR opinion because it isn't valid, and is probably biased. Not to mention it is completely opinion-based, so it holds no weight. OH the irony.

Do me a favor next time, and read my post a little bit better next time. What I say is something nobody here could blurt out, unless that have physical proof, of course. I've been part in the SSBB discussion through Nintendo planning each character's moves. Yet... You say my motion was opinion based? O_o Know what, just 're-read' my post, if you are even smart enough to do that, then tell me what you think. I merely brought a fact out to all you ladies complaining about MK, and if you don't want to listen to it, which I know you all won't, then keep on debating over this pointless subject. BTW: Nice epic-fail trying to pull out the 'OH THE IRONY' phrase. Try again next time.

lol you're doing it again...just spewing out things ANYONE can do or say. "Oh your thread is useless". Ok, your post is useless. You OBVIOUSLY have something against Meta Knight being considered broken. There is something in your mind that doesn't allow you to believe certain things, obviously. You're being stubborn to think that Meta Knight is a perfectly balanced character and that he doesn't have an unrealistic gameplay. Go to a tournament and you'll find that the majority of the players pick Meta Knight--if not the majority, then the largest minority. Why? Because people want to win! Who best to do it with? META KNIGHT!

BoZzy · 11-21-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalFantasyVII

Yeah dude anyone can just spit out what you did in a matter of seconds. "Oh, this thread proves nothing; IN FACT, it even helps to prove, if not PROVE, that Meta Knight is actually the WORST character in the game. Lets go and close this thread".

BORING and UNREASONABLE. This information Turk brings up on this thread is opinion-based, but falls under being experience-based. I mean seriously, how do we make decisions in any case? We go to the people who have the most EXPERIENCE and allow them to make the right choice when they are reasonably deemed the right one to do so. If enough people don't like something, it is usually dealt with and revoked. In fact, you could say that ANYTHING is opinion-based. Your whole statement is an opinion! "This thread should be closed". Well, we shouldn't listen to YOUR opinion because it isn't valid, and is probably biased. Not to mention it is completely opinion-based, so it holds no weight. OH the irony.

Do me a favor next time, and read my post a little bit better next time. What I say is something nobody here could blurt out, unless that have physical proof, of course. I've been part in the SSBB discussion through Nintendo planning each character's moves. Yet... You say my motion was opinion based? O_o Know what, just 're-read' my post, if you are even smart enough to do that, then tell me what you think. I merely brought a fact out to all you ladies complaining about MK, and if you don't want to listen to it, which I know you all won't, then keep on debating over this pointless subject. BTW: Nice epic-fail trying to pull out the 'OH THE IRONY' phrase. Try again next time.

lol you're doing it again...just spewing out things ANYONE can do or say. "Oh your thread is useless". Ok, your post is useless. You OBVIOUSLY have something against Meta Knight being considered broken. There is something in your mind that doesn't allow you to believe certain things, obviously. You're being stubborn to think that Meta Knight is a perfectly balanced character and that he doesn't have an unrealistic gameplay. Go to a tournament and you'll find that the majority of the players pick Meta Knight--if not the majority, then the largest minority. Why? Because people want to win! Who best to do it with? META KNIGHT!

All characters have their own ways. In fact, in tourneys, I 99% of the time pick Wario. Why? Because I've gotten used to all his moves. It's all about skill and timing. I've beaten many people who used MK with Wario. Odd, isn't it? There are ways to beat him. You just have to time your moves. Now, some characters I use, like Sonic, keep getting beaten by MK, simply because I'm not that good with them. But when I'm Wario, I have a 'better' chance at beating MK's. (Not saying that I beat them all the time) Look at Ganondorf. He's slow on many things. Yet, people can become pro with him and be a bad--- brawler with him.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-21-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Do me a favor next time, and read my post a little bit better next time. What I say is something nobody here could blurt out, unless that have physical proof, of course. I've been part in the SSBB discussion through Nintendo planning each character's moves. Yet... You say my motion was opinion based? O_o Know what, just 're-read' my post, if you are even smart enough to do that, then tell me what you think. I merely brought a fact out to all you ladies complaining about MK, and if you don't want to listen to it, which I know you all won't, then keep on debating over this pointless subject. BTW: Nice epic-fail trying to pull out the 'OH THE IRONY' phrase. Try again next time.

lol you're doing it again...just spewing out things ANYONE can do or say. "Oh your thread is useless". Ok, your post is useless. You OBVIOUSLY have something against Meta Knight being considered broken. There is something in your mind that doesn't allow you to believe certain things, obviously. You're being stubborn to think that Meta Knight is a perfectly balanced character and that he doesn't have an unrealistic gameplay. Go to a tournament and you'll find that the majority of the players pick Meta Knight--if not the majority, then the largest minority. Why? Because people want to win! Who best to do it with? META KNIGHT!

All characters have their own ways. In fact, in tourneys, I 99% of the time pick Wario. Why? Because I've gotten used to all his moves. It's all about skill and timing. I've beaten many people who used MK with Wario. Odd, isn't it? There are ways to beat him. You just have to time your moves. Now, some characters I use, like Sonic, keep getting beaten by MK, simply because I'm not that good with them. But when I'm Wario, I have a 'better' chance at beating MK's. (Not saying that I beat them all the time) Look at Ganondorf. He's slow on many things. Yet, people can become pro with him and be a bad--- brawler with him.

Thanks for that comment, it made me realize that you just jumped into the conversation without doing ANY research at first (at least your tone was calmer this time around). I never said that Meta Knight is unbeatable, never will, never will think so. And I know that there are ways to beat him--HE'S BEATABLE. You think I haven't heard of "timing your moves"? A pro samus has the potential to 2 or 3-stock another pro samus or luigi for instance, but that very same samus can be 2 or 3 stocked by a meta-knight. It also depends on style--someone can be a pro meta-knight, but the personal weakness of the PLAYER is that he or she becomes HIGHLY predictable by jumping in the air every single time they trip, fall on the ground, or use their shield, etc. However, ANY character this same person picks will have the same problem of being repetitive and thus making himself vulnerable. Meta Knight has overall WAY too much to work with--on ground, in the air, on the edge, and off-stage.

Do ME a favor next time and read what's been said already and if it has been refuted, then refute what I have refuted (which is only natural in a debate situation). If you had done just this, your comment wouldn't have existed as it was.

Edit: To Boz: Oh I just got your message on my profile link, if I had read it sooner I wouldn't have been so hostile myself in this post

Thanks

BoZzy · 11-21-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoZ94

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91

lol you're doing it again...just spewing out things ANYONE can do or say. "Oh your thread is useless". Ok, your post is useless. You OBVIOUSLY have something against Meta Knight being considered broken. There is something in your mind that doesn't allow you to believe certain things, obviously. You're being stubborn to think that Meta Knight is a perfectly balanced character and that he doesn't have an unrealistic gameplay. Go to a tournament and you'll find that the majority of the players pick Meta Knight--if not the majority, then the largest minority. Why? Because people want to win! Who best to do it with? META KNIGHT!

All characters have their own ways. In fact, in tourneys, I 99% of the time pick Wario. Why? Because I've gotten used to all his moves. It's all about skill and timing. I've beaten many people who used MK with Wario. Odd, isn't it? There are ways to beat him. You just have to time your moves. Now, some characters I use, like Sonic, keep getting beaten by MK, simply because I'm not that good with them. But when I'm Wario, I have a 'better' chance at beating MK's. (Not saying that I beat them all the time) Look at Ganondorf. He's slow on many things. Yet, people can become pro with him and be a bad--- brawler with him.

Thanks for that comment, it made me realize that you just jumped into the conversation without doing ANY research at first (at least your tone was calmer this time around). I never said that Meta Knight is unbeatable, never will, never will think so. And I know that there are ways to beat him--HE'S BEATABLE. You think I haven't heard of "timing your moves"? A pro samus has the potential to 2 or 3-stock another pro samus or luigi for instance, but that very same samus can be 2 or 3 stocked by a meta-knight. It also depends on style--someone can be a pro meta-knight, but the personal weakness of the PLAYER is that he or she becomes HIGHLY predictable by jumping in the air every single time they trip, fall on the ground, or use their shield, etc. However, ANY character this same person picks will have the same problem of being repetitive and thus making himself vulnerable. Meta Knight has overall WAY too much to work with--on ground, in the air, on the edge, and off-stage.

Do ME a favor next time and read what's been said already and if it has been refuted, then refute what I have refuted (which is only natural in a debate situation). If you had done just this, your comment wouldn't have existed as it was.

Edit: To Boz: Oh I just got your message on my profile link, if I had read it sooner I wouldn't have been so hostile myself in this post

Thanks

It's okay.

True, I didn't really read all the previous posts, I just assumed. I do need to stop doing that. xD Anyway, no harm done.

SMASH KING · 11-21-2009, 06:15 PM

(-_-)...hmmmm...

The Storm · 11-21-2009, 06:57 PM

hmmm... Im not really understanding here... Why do you think Meta is broken? Just because a player is good, and he can be played with in a style that makes him nye untouchable, save for grabs, doesnt make them broken. If you get good enough with any character, any pro will tell you... They can seem just as broken as Meta. It depends on the character, and how you play with them. Why do most people choose Meta in the tournaments? Is it because they want to win? The answer simply is yes. But its not the reason you think. Let me explain. Meta is used by players who want to keep on keeping on attacking. Aggro players, if you will. and it just so happnes that his moveset incorporates this "untouchable" power that he seems to have. He is most widely picked bc he is the easiest to do that with for aggro players. Other characters, like Ganon, Luigi, Zelda, what have you, can be played with that same "untouchable" power that Meta has, it just depends on the character, and usually, you cannot play aggro with them to get the untouchable effect bc their moves do not have priority and everything else that Meta does. But, they can still be just as good as Meta, if not better.

All im saying is, you think Meta is broken, he is not. He is made to be played the way he gets played. By aggro all out psycho attack people. Trust me, if your like me, and you like to wait and take your time, not just rush into a fight like some crack driven monkey (lol Diddy Kong reference) then you will prolly suck with Meta, just as I do. But I have no reason to want him banned or looked at as overpowered, simply bc his playing style allows most spastic players to get very very good with him very very fast.

Dorkfish · 11-21-2009, 07:40 PM

People who argue about Brawl make me laugh. I, good sirs, play Marvel.

SMASH KING · 11-21-2009, 07:41 PM

it all depends on the player...not the character

@dorkfish: just so you know, this isn't and will not be about marvel

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-21-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Storm

hmmm... Im not really understanding here... Why do you think Meta is broken? Just because a player is good, and he can be played with in a style that makes him nye untouchable, save for grabs, doesnt make them broken. If you get good enough with any character, any pro will tell you... They can seem just as broken as Meta. It depends on the character, and how you play with them. Why do most people choose Meta in the tournaments? Is it because they want to win? The answer simply is yes. But its not the reason you think. Let me explain. Meta is used by players who want to keep on keeping on attacking. Aggro players, if you will. and it just so happnes that his moveset incorporates this "untouchable" power that he seems to have. He is most widely picked bc he is the easiest to do that with for aggro players. Other characters, like Ganon, Luigi, Zelda, what have you, can be played with that same "untouchable" power that Meta has, it just depends on the character, and usually, you cannot play aggro with them to get the untouchable effect bc their moves do not have priority and everything else that Meta does. But, they can still be just as good as Meta, if not better.

All im saying is, you think Meta is broken, he is not. He is made to be played the way he gets played. By aggro all out psycho attack people. Trust me, if your like me, and you like to wait and take your time, not just rush into a fight like some crack driven monkey (lol Diddy Kong reference) then you will prolly suck with Meta, just as I do. But I have no reason to want him banned or looked at as overpowered, simply bc his playing style allows most spastic players to get very very good with him very very fast.

You see, at times I really want to accept that argument, but time and time over again I just can't see it being valid--I keep realizing that is just doesn't cut it. It all comes down to Meta Knight having the best advantage over any other character--and by far. He can toss around a character and kill them in their 30s because he is equipped with moves that can knock back far off the edge and still land on-stage with ease, as well as pull of an edge-guard with little to no risk at all (even if the edge is grabbed, he has means to get right back on stage). The other characters you mentioned simply don't have what he does. And even if they do, it's to a small extent and such an advantage is made highly risky in order to balance the gameplay.

To think that the best character in the game is not broken in this case (Meta Knight in SSBB) is, in my opinion, a close-minded or even biased opinion. There has to be a "best" in every game to some degree, but Meta Knight goes overboard, coming only slightly close to the next best, Snake (who is also broken, who says there can only be one broken character in a game?).

When you say that Meta Knight has easily accessible "aggro moves" and is thus able to rack easy damage THANKS TO HIS PRIORITY, etc., you are giving the reasons in which I believe he is broken. No other character has access to moves with such a high combination of priority, range, and speed.

If you know anything about Ike's forward aerial attack, it has immense range, good power and knockback, and some lag. If it had say even just 10% less lag, 10% more range, 10% and more power and knockback, the move itself would probably be considered broken (I brough up broken aspects of certain moves earlier).

Meta Knight ALWAYS has his high priority, range, and speed, so all of his moves fall under being exceedingly overworked.

And yes, I know that any character--even Ganondorf--can be just as good as a pro Meta Knight, but that just goes back to the concept of being able to be beaten no matter how broken a character is, so long as they are not actually IMMUNE to losing a stock. Yes, it's possible that a pro Ganondorf can be a pro Meta Knight. Chances are that the pro Ganondorf got really lucky, his playing style was "strong against" the particular player's style or strategy, or that his skill level was simply much larger. Realistically, it would have to be a huge chunk of each--but nonetheless, it's possible, I know.

The Storm · 11-22-2009, 05:42 AM

Yes, its possible. But I your still missing the boat on everything else I said. Meta's playing style is meant for aggro players, and it so happens that playing him in the aggro style will make him damn near invincible. Any other character can do that. Given, as I stated in my post before, it depends on their playing style specifically catered to that character in order to pull out their full potential. And the reasons you just gave arent really proving hes broken at all... ROB can much more easily kill off stage guard and get back safely at 10% damage if you get the chance.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-22-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Storm

Yes, its possible. But I your still missing the boat on everything else I said. Meta's playing style is meant for aggro players, and it so happens that playing him in the aggro style will make him damn near invincible. Any other character can do that. Given, as I stated in my post before, it depends on their playing style specifically catered to that character in order to pull out their full potential. And the reasons you just gave arent really proving hes broken at all... ROB can much more easily kill off stage guard and get back safely at 10% damage if you get the chance.

I understood what you said and meant the first time, actually. The thing is, Meta Knight is able to "play aggro" with such ease--attacking defensively is his best trait. In short, he is equipped with traits and moves that allow for bouncing around his opponent while taking little to no punishment at all. Others can "play aggro" and have potential, but it requires a lot more skill and luck. While you can simply flick buttons with Meta Knight in the air, you have to work much harder to achieve the same state with any other character.

And yes, ROB has a good off-stage game as well, but this alone doesn't constitute to him being comparable with meta knight.

The Storm · 11-22-2009, 04:00 PM

Ok, but what you said somewhat contradicts yourself, and further proves my point. You said you agree that Meta is playable with Aggro style, which follows up to his so called "invulnerable" state. The same is true with other characters, you just have to play to the style that caters theyre abilities. So in short, you simply restated what I just said... You didnt rebuddle the arguement whatsoever.

Basically, you agreed with my views on why Meta isnt broken. And no, i disagree, he is not the best character. I agree that he is the easiest to use and the quickest to get very good with thanks to his head on built in aggro style, but the greatest? No way. Ive seen many tourneys where very good talented players 3 stock the spastic Meta's that roam the bottom matches. Usually in a tournament, you will see that many players choose Meta, but when it comes down to the top 8 or less, usually only 1 Meta remains, and that is someone who is actually skilled with him. Its just like when any game comes out, and people think their is a best character. Its wrong, there is never a best character. Their are only characters that seem the best bc they cater the easiest to the needs of the largest majority of gamers.

RPGMasterTurk91 · 11-22-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Storm

Ok, but what you said somewhat contradicts yourself, and further proves my point. You said you agree that Meta is playable with Aggro style, which follows up to his so called "invulnerable" state. The same is true with other characters, you just have to play to the style that caters theyre abilities. So in short, you simply restated what I just said... You didnt rebuddle the arguement whatsoever.

Basically, you agreed with my views on why Meta isnt broken. And no, i disagree, he is not the best character. I agree that he is the easiest to use and the quickest to get very good with thanks to his head on built in aggro style, but the greatest? No way. Ive seen many tourneys where very good talented players 3 stock the spastic Meta's that roam the bottom matches. Usually in a tournament, you will see that many players choose Meta, but when it comes down to the top 8 or less, usually only 1 Meta remains, and that is someone who is actually skilled with him. Its just like when any game comes out, and people think their is a best character. Its wrong, there is never a best character. Their are only characters that seem the best bc they cater the easiest to the needs of the largest majority of gamers.

I haven't contradicted myself one bit, rather, you have misconstrued what I said (I would notice the contradiction if I actually meant your interpretation/the way it was typed then say "oh wait, you're right, he's NOT broken!,", which I DON'T believe).

Everyone has the ability to aggro--so what. Everyone has the ability to grab; anyone who is in the game can grab. In fact, lacking a "grab" would make versing that character or being that character awkward--its simply part of the main gameplay. Any character can jump at another and attempt a hit, the success rate depends on the player first, then the character they pick. Meta Knight, in the end, is equipped to easily damage while staying safe and throw around his opponents about the stage, racking about heaps of damage thanks to the majority of characters--regardless of who--being helpless. Again, I haven't agreed with your viewpoint, just because I thought one of your points was partially valid and already believed in the true part of your statement before you even made it doesn't mean I have agreed with you in that Meta Knight in fact isn't broken.

Meta Knight is COMPLETELY broken.

11-11-2009, 04:51 PM	#62
Shadow*91 I'm just ash in the wind. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Busy, too busy to tell you. Posts: 1,942 Friends: 56 0000-0000-0000-0000 Blog Entries: 3	you know what? i give up. i have said my views and argued them, just as you and others have. and while i claim this thread proves Meta is not broken, i'm apparently wrong when there's no right or wrong to be had. also you continually bring up the fact that "the SBR had to vote about whether Meta should be banned" as if that is proof he is broken. in the end though, the top Smash players in the world decided he's not. isn't that good enough for you? many don't argue it because if the very best in the world said he's not broken then they just accept it. and there are many anti-Meta strategies out there as well that defeat Meta quite easily. and yes this thread is pointless because whether or not you manage to convince every Wiichat reader that Meta is broken(which he's not), you won't change the fact that he's not banned. __________________ Sig was made by me! Click here to see more I've made!

11-11-2009, 05:36 PM	#63
BoZzy Darkness in the Night. Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Jack-Town - Mississippi! (I'mma southern boy!) :3 Posts: 950 Friends: 45 2738-5392-4347-3415 Blog Entries: 1	Wow... From what I've read throughout this thread.. Not only have I seen a bunch of girls fight over a video game character in a hardcore way, but... I just saw nothing. None of you made ANY points whatsoever about MK being broken, you basically just stated your pointless opinions about it. There's nothing you can do to say he is. The 'official' discussion for you guys would've been the time before the makes of SSBB. While Nintendo was showing the alpha stage of SSBB, we've gotten, (most.. anyways) to see the characters first moves, stages, etc. etc. Nintendo made it official once the game was made. So.. No matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you guys say about MK, or anyother character for that matter, being broken. I've already been a part of Nintendo's major discussing fields, and everything was made through there. MK's first-initial moves was a type of grab, (similar to ganondorf's), for where his tornado would be. He'd grab, throw up, and came down with explosive effects. (Which replaced his normal up-grab.) With many complaints for some reason, and thanks to some guy's suggestion, Ninty changed it to tornado, and his up-grab back to normal. That's just an example of what I'm trying to say. So, do this thread a favor, and close it. There's no need for it, since this is basically a opionized-based thread. __________________ Darkness in the night, I'll find that light, for you.. As long as I got eyes, I'll have a side for you.. As long as I'm alive, baby, I'll die for you.

11-21-2009, 06:15 PM	#72
SMASH KING in memory of ~SKing~ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: u dont need 2 know Posts: 328 Friends: 38 3699-5722-3363-7541	(-_-)...hmmmm... __________________ The Gold Ike Toon Link Champion no more... Brawl code: 0946-8059-4275 Conduit code: coming soon Mario kart code: coming soon dont bother sending a request to brawl me. i dont add anymore people now...not only that...but im done here.... SK-The Blade Deity-

11-21-2009, 06:57 PM	#73
The Storm Legendary Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 961 Friends: 27	hmmm... Im not really understanding here... Why do you think Meta is broken? Just because a player is good, and he can be played with in a style that makes him nye untouchable, save for grabs, doesnt make them broken. If you get good enough with any character, any pro will tell you... They can seem just as broken as Meta. It depends on the character, and how you play with them. Why do most people choose Meta in the tournaments? Is it because they want to win? The answer simply is yes. But its not the reason you think. Let me explain. Meta is used by players who want to keep on keeping on attacking. Aggro players, if you will. and it just so happnes that his moveset incorporates this "untouchable" power that he seems to have. He is most widely picked bc he is the easiest to do that with for aggro players. Other characters, like Ganon, Luigi, Zelda, what have you, can be played with that same "untouchable" power that Meta has, it just depends on the character, and usually, you cannot play aggro with them to get the untouchable effect bc their moves do not have priority and everything else that Meta does. But, they can still be just as good as Meta, if not better. All im saying is, you think Meta is broken, he is not. He is made to be played the way he gets played. By aggro all out psycho attack people. Trust me, if your like me, and you like to wait and take your time, not just rush into a fight like some crack driven monkey (lol Diddy Kong reference) then you will prolly suck with Meta, just as I do. But I have no reason to want him banned or looked at as overpowered, simply bc his playing style allows most spastic players to get very very good with him very very fast. __________________ My beautiful baby girl

11-21-2009, 07:40 PM	#74
Dorkfish I'm Good at Games Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In the Boondocks Posts: 1,084 Friends: 15 3041-8420-1576-4112	People who argue about Brawl make me laugh. I, good sirs, play Marvel. __________________ My Face------------------------------------> Weeeeeeeeeeeee Add my PSN for some good shit~iDorkfish


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11-21-2009, 07:41 PM	#75
SMASH KING in memory of ~SKing~ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: u dont need 2 know Posts: 328 Friends: 38 3699-5722-3363-7541	it all depends on the player...not the character @dorkfish: just so you know, this isn't and will not be about marvel __________________ The Gold Ike Toon Link Champion no more... Brawl code: 0946-8059-4275 Conduit code: coming soon Mario kart code: coming soon dont bother sending a request to brawl me. i dont add anymore people now...not only that...but im done here.... SK-The Blade Deity- Last edited by SMASH KING; 11-21-2009 at 07:44 PM.

11-22-2009, 05:42 AM	#77
The Storm Legendary Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 961 Friends: 27	Yes, its possible. But I your still missing the boat on everything else I said. Meta's playing style is meant for aggro players, and it so happens that playing him in the aggro style will make him damn near invincible. Any other character can do that. Given, as I stated in my post before, it depends on their playing style specifically catered to that character in order to pull out their full potential. And the reasons you just gave arent really proving hes broken at all... ROB can much more easily kill off stage guard and get back safely at 10% damage if you get the chance. __________________ My beautiful baby girl

11-22-2009, 04:00 PM	#79
The Storm Legendary Super Saiyan Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 961 Friends: 27	Ok, but what you said somewhat contradicts yourself, and further proves my point. You said you agree that Meta is playable with Aggro style, which follows up to his so called "invulnerable" state. The same is true with other characters, you just have to play to the style that caters theyre abilities. So in short, you simply restated what I just said... You didnt rebuddle the arguement whatsoever. Basically, you agreed with my views on why Meta isnt broken. And no, i disagree, he is not the best character. I agree that he is the easiest to use and the quickest to get very good with thanks to his head on built in aggro style, but the greatest? No way. Ive seen many tourneys where very good talented players 3 stock the spastic Meta's that roam the bottom matches. Usually in a tournament, you will see that many players choose Meta, but when it comes down to the top 8 or less, usually only 1 Meta remains, and that is someone who is actually skilled with him. Its just like when any game comes out, and people think their is a best character. Its wrong, there is never a best character. Their are only characters that seem the best bc they cater the easiest to the needs of the largest majority of gamers. __________________ My beautiful baby girl

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