Brawl Tier List Discussion

Dorkfish · 06-03-2008, 10:49 PM

While we're on the topic of off topic-ness, I would like to post my Tier List, just to appease the mass amount of doods posting their own Tier Lists when they aren't supposed to.

Top~
1.Meta Knight
2.Snake
3.Lucas
4.Marth
5.Toon Link

And thats all for now, folks!

spiff-ssbb · 06-03-2008, 11:24 PM

I'm about 99% sure Lucas wont be top tier... not even high. Brawl is turning into a game of infinites the way its going and there are a LOT of characters that can infinite grab Lucas. he and Ness have special animations that allow this

WMBQ · 06-03-2008, 11:33 PM

Dorkfish-
I agree with that list, except for Lucas and maybe Toon Link.
Lucas isn't fast enough in many of his attacks, and like spiff said, he can be infinite grabbed by too many characters.
Toon Link is good, and maybe deserved High Tier, but I don't think he's in league with Marth, Snake and Meta Knight.

PrinceLink · 06-03-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

I think everyone in the game's recovery is way too big. Maybe Yoshi as an exception. But every single character can come back from beng hit out as far as possible, but not dieing. Every single one. The only way they won't make it back is with ledge guarding, and let's face it, in Brawl that's alot harder to do. The ring-out is closer, so the area you're in a magnifying glass is alot smaller. In Melee, alot of KOs were on the bottom, from spikes or ledge defending. In Brawl, most KOs are from the side, and for some characters, the top.

Your Blind

R.O.B, DDD, Snake, Pit, Metaknight, and sometimes Pikachu have insane recoveries.

Olimar, Wolf, Ganondorf, Ivysaur, struggle to recover ALOT Also Captain Falcon/Ike cannot recover from a certain distance and Bowser/DK can not recover from too low.

Everyone, Always, and All are powerful words use them carefully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiff-ssbb

i believe the actual distance it travels is about the same. but it doesn't bend around stages like it once did... you get stuck under FD now... i've tried lol but given the fact that everyone else and every newcomer has a HUGE recovery... fox's is now fairly short

Wolf, Ike, Ivysaur, Olimar and maybe Zero Suit Samus hav little recoverys

Dorkfish · 06-03-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceLink

Your Blind

R.O.B, DDD, Snake, Pit, Metaknight, and sometimes Pikachu have insane recoveries.

Olimar, Wolf, Ganondorf, Ivysaur, struggle to recover ALOT Also Captain Falcon/Ike cannot recover from a certain distance and Bowser/DK can not recover from too low.

Everyone, Always, and All are powerful words use them carefully.

Wolf, Ike, Ivysaur, Olimar and maybe Zero Suit Samus hav little recoverys

I liek teh fiestyness, but we are getting off topic. I don't know how we can stay on topic for more than 5 posts, but I need to find a way.

Fox discussion has been C/Ped and saved.

Next character, any ideas?

Marth101 · 06-04-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorkfish

I liek teh fiestyness, but we are getting off topic. I don't know how we can stay on topic for more than 5 posts, but I need to find a way.

Fox discussion has been C/Ped and saved.

Next character, any ideas?

Dorkfish how about Ice Climbers or Pikachu?

bw! · 06-04-2008, 12:03 AM

How bout rob or pikachu?

PrinceLink · 06-04-2008, 12:13 AM

Ok no one has touched this one and I do not know why.

Olimar

I think Olimar has alot of potential, he is probably second to snake. But Ya Olimar has alot of potential and he has insane moves. If it wasnt for his bad recovery i think tourneys would be Olimar Snake Olimar Metaknight Snake Olimar lol. First off i think his Up Smash(With Purple) is the strongest in the game it can kill at 60% on some characters. Also His Grab game is definitely the best in brawl. He can kill someone with Bthrow with blue and Uthrow with purple at 95 and greater %. Their are tons of other things but i rather hear what you guys have to say becuase if you say he sucks in something then i will just pwn you with facts :P

Dorkfish · 06-04-2008, 12:29 AM

Well, I was gonna go with Pikachu, but since discussion has already started on Olimar, then lets go with Olimar.

Lets talk about his recovery, one of the worst in the game. Its short, even when you have all 6 pikmin, and if you kill a few in the air when you knock him off the stage, that pretty much screws his chances of returning to the stage.

All of his attacks have a randomization element, based on which pikmin is in the front of the line. You will most definitely not have a chance the use the whistle to change to lineup when in the middle of a fight, and even if you get to use it once, its not very fast so the character can get to you. The randomization element really gimps his offense.

But, even though it is random, his attacks have the chance to be super strong. But, they have a chance to be weak as well. Again, the randomization element is bad.

His grab game is pretty good, but not as good as you say, Prince. Again, randomization. You're not going to have time to change your lineup, as I've said before.
Can superguard with whistle, which is only good against FSes. You can superguard one attack, but the moves timeframe will allow one or two more attacks to hit you before you get out of it.

Light character, relatively easy to KO.

Overall, its the randomization element that hurts him. He would be a great character if the pikmin were easier to control.

Mid-High/Bottom of High

bw! · 06-04-2008, 12:32 AM

I will admit olimar has lots of good smash attacks, but i dont like battleing olimar-players because some of them spam attacks way to much.

I would say olimar is in the medium part of the tier.

Dorkfish · 06-04-2008, 12:42 AM

Yeah, Olimar is one of those characters who can spam and camp with success. I don't like it (nor does most of the smash world) but thats how he is.

PrinceLink · 06-04-2008, 12:49 AM

Well of course Olimars recover is horrible and probably the worst in the game but oddly enough i seem to die at 100%s alot and thats when most peopel do die lol.

With the randomized Elements i dont know whats soo bad about that. Look you do not order the pikmin in what you want to do you use them to their abilities. Look if i have a Red White Yellow Purple Blue, I am going to Fair, side B, f smash, grab/throw/u smash depending on distance, grab or usmash. The randomization doesnt really gimp his offence at all really. Blue, Red and Yellow do almost the exact same damage and have very close hit box ranges while purples have same hit box but higher damage. And if i have a white next i Pretty much always throw it. Please describe more how randomized elements are bad. And their not that random becuase you base most of your moves on them.

And also with your randomized elements with grabs doesnt really make a difference. If i want a KO i will throw my pikmin to be Blue, purples in front then I will go for grab. Also if i am just grabing i do not care really which pikmin grabs.
White- Attack with A 3 or more to cause uber damage
Red- Attack once and down throw to combo
Yellow- Same as red
Blue- If KOing then back or forward throw
Purple- If KOing then up throw

Olimar is light but not very light.

Quote:

Kirby’s Star Shot (B attack), is an attack that does damage depending on the weight of the enemy. Doing this you can determine the weight of Brawl Characters, a recompilation list of weights of enemies is right here.
Very Heavy (18%)
Bowser (Koopa)
Donkey Kong
Dedede
Heavy (17%)
Samus
Charizard
Ganondorf
Snake
Medium-Heavy (16%)
Yoshi
Wario
Ike
Link
R.O.B.
Captain Falcon
Wolf
Normal Weight (15%)
Mario
Lucario
Luigi
Ivysaur
Sonic
Slim (14%)
Ice Climber
Pit
Lucas
Diddy Kong
Peach
Toon Link
Ness
Light-Weight (13%)
Zelda
Olimar <-----------------------------------Olimar is heavier than you would have thought.
Sheik
Marth
Very Light-Weight (12%)
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Pikachu
Meta Knight
Fox
Falco
Squirtle
Lightest Characters (11% or less)
(11%) Mr. Game & Watch
( 9% ) Jigglypuff (Purin)

Source- http://smashgamers.com/2008/02/20/sm...r-weight-list/

Also some tests are being done on other sites to see if purples make olimar heavier

Olimar whistle armor is also very very good. I have survived up to 200% sometimes becuase i have whistled a laggy attack and punished and punished lol. Also pits F smash the one with two hits ya I have whistled BOTH hits so suck on that!

Top/High Tier = Olimar

Dorkfish · 06-04-2008, 12:53 AM

Impudence is not the answer, young padawan.

I highly doubt you can survive up to 200 with Olimar when facing a good player, especially with that recovery. I think it has something to do with player skill, as well, not just character ability. Do you seriously think that strategy is going to work out all the time? No, its not.

vashivihan · 06-04-2008, 01:22 AM

so how about that captain falcon?

bw! · 06-04-2008, 01:36 AM

I say pikachu next.

Dorkfish · 06-04-2008, 01:44 AM

Stop getting off topic!!!

Olimar really does not belong in Top Tier because of his shortcomings.

The Randomization and Bad Recovery are killer.

Again, Mid-High/Bottom of High, no Higher.

WMBQ · 06-04-2008, 01:48 AM

Olimar-
Based on these conversations, I'd put Olimar near/at the top of Medium. I like him, but I HATE the randomization.
On the plus side, his Pikmin Chain is a very good juggling attack, if used when Olimar is on the ground.

Next character- (Fox)
He may not be as good as he was in Melee, but I still see him as a well balanced, good character.
I put him at High Tier.

Dorkfish · 06-04-2008, 01:53 AM

We already did fox, silly! Lol

Done with Olimar me takes it? Aight, 2 people asked, Pikachuuuuuuuu is up next.

I have relatively no experience with him, so...

*Goes and plays Brawl