aaaah i dunno about that one. a good Marth user will out prioritize anything you've got. IMO he has the best air and ground game of any character (flame if you must). his main weakness for me is his Nerfed recovery.

and when i say better i include better than meta because he can out reach meta. so a marth user with proper spacing and patience should technically take the meta while on the stage. he's weak when he loses control of the middle though

ROB could quite possibly be Top Tier material. I'm just saying, there were three top tier characters in melee, but only 2 in Brawl? Maybe there could be two (Snake and MK do certainly stand out) but it doesn't seem right to me.

Wow, that argument sucked... perhaps only Snake and MK is best.

^ it seems wrong because it is. it SHOULD be more balanced. but like i've said before Melee was more balanced than brawl. its a sad fact... but i think its time we all began to accept it lol

One of the reasons I consider MK and Snake Top Tier is because of there recovery, something Marth doesn't have and if you are good edge guarder the game could end pretty fast. If marth had a better air game and a better recovery I would consider him Top Tier.

Um, since when? There were only like, 4-5 characters in the entire Melee roster that were used by top proffesional players. Fox, Falco, Marth, Shiek, and Peach make up the two top tiers. You seriously can't tell me that Brawl isn't as balanced as that broken roster you worship so much.

I agree with Dork on that one.

To Mar: Marth? Better air game? He already has the best one... you can't touch him if he's played properly.

YOUR CRAZY!!!!!!! Having more Top Tier HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!! The difference between the Top Tier and the Low Tier in Brawl is far greater. I could rant on about this all day lol.

What are YOU talking about? I was explaining that only 4-5 of the top tier characters were used in tournaments by top proffesionals, not how many people are in tiers. I was just using that as a reference to show what chars were being used.

It sounded like to me that you were saying brawl was more balanced than Melee lol, that I where I must have gotten confused

...It is. In melee, two players of equal skill, one wielding Pichu and the other Marth, Pichu will get eaten everytime.

There's actually a much smaller gap between the top and bottom tiers. It's actually so small that it's elusive as to who's better than who sometimes. With obvious exceptions.

You are confused. I was saying that Brawl will be more balanced therefore more characters will be used in tournaments. Geez

No brawl is defiantely way more unbalanced than Melee. If you put a Pikachu against a Marth in Melee the outcome will be much closer, and I even just did it. Try putting snake against Yoshi lol, Brawl is really unbalanced. The gap between the top tier and the bottom tier are much bigger.

k so first... peach was barely used... the professional list was more of a:
(in order)
Marth
Fox/Falco-used fairly equally
Sheik/CF- also used equally.

people use everyone in brawl tourneys yes. but only 2 out of 35 characters win (for the most part) so the facts push towards melee as more balanced... simple as that

about Marth's air game... its pretty much the best in the game. priority, combo's, spikes, b air KO's... its a thing of beauty. your right with the recovery point though.

to Zero:
try beating a Meta with a Yoshi when you play someone the same strength as you. two stock every time.

I'd put it this way. 2 brawl players of equal strength. one is aggressive. the other camps. the aggressor gets eaten every time. its a sad fact but its true. the game is campy.

for the record i'm not flaming brawl because i dont like it because i do. i love the game. but it has many flaws that make it less balanced and competitive than melee. i'm just stating facts here guys

Do you seriously think thats how its going to be the entire time? The games been out for three months. There haven't been that many tournaments yet, so you cant judge your thesis on a few bits of information. The metagame has not developed yet, so don't be judging the balance of the game before everything has been figured out.

Thank you spiff for supporting me, I'm going to lay some facts down right now. I have had the game since the japanese release it has been plenty of time for me to realize it. I just bought the english copy last saturday. There have been plenty of tournaments, maybe not on this site but all over the place there have tournaments.


The gap between The Good Characters and the Bad Characters is much larger now. Certain characters can combo, rack up damage and KO. Certain others can't do either very well. Certain chars can do two out of three, others only one of them.

Few characters can approach safely. Marth can do all of these things.

Lower ceilings will make vertical KO's even more important, especially with the new floatiness to screw up edgeguarding. Only a select few can KO well vertically.

Among other things...


Characters like Olimar and Falco get absolute control and just dominate everyone outside of Marth/Toon Link/few others. Falcos new lasers make it so you opponent stays on the ground, within grab range or far enough away so he cant get tippered/grabbed. His new shine helps with this too. You can chain grab with his down grab too.

Olimar is just nasty. He can camp and spam Pikmin or just rape you with Fair to Dair combos. His grab range is also ridiculous.


If you need even more proof look at this chart, this was tested using lvl 9 cpu's and I got this off smashboards, so this is actually pretty accurate. If I found a melee chart you wouldn't find numbers like these.

Look a page or 2 back, its the same one I posted.