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No, I've seen CPU Pichus (lvl 7) in Melee beat CPU Foxes (lvl 9); tiers DEFINATELY don't gauge CPU validity.
And the effectiveness of a character varies depending on the player, so there is no way to gauge one without gauging the other. Again, OBVIOUSLY each character has seperate stats, but that only means they're a better character for those players that know how to best utilize that character's highest stat.
EDIT: Fox is SAID to be top tier though, proving that the tiers are wrong. And of course Fox will win sometimes...it again has to do with the player (even CPUs act differently from each other)
__________________
~RAWR~
Spoiler Alert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leves
This pwnage is brought to you by S.S.
Pwnage isn't pwnage unless its S.S. pwnage.
...I hate the little bastard. He could win a debate that the world is flat. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma
Welcome aboard to the S.S. Awesome
Awesome list:
Leves, Axtlar, Steph, Marioman, Wario, D_L, icyloopia, Emaa, Wreked, Shoko, Cyan, and prolly some others
No, I've seen CPU Pichus (lvl 7) in Melee beat CPU Foxes (lvl 9); tiers DEFINATELY don't gauge CPU validity.
And the effectiveness of a character varies depending on the player, so there is no way to gauge one without gauging the other. Again, OBVIOUSLY each character has seperate stats, but that only means they're a better character for those players that know how to best utilize that character's highest stat.
EDIT: Fox is SAID to be top tier though, proving that the tiers are wrong. And of course Fox will win sometimes...it again has to do with the player (even CPUs act differently from each other)
Remember we are talking about brawl.....
Fox is not top tier, he just doesn't have that material, not many people would agree with you on that at all. I never said it would be exact but I said it would be accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkfish
Well then, if a Yoshi beat a Fox CPU, and a Fox beat a Yoshi CPU, wouldn't that mean Yoshi=Fox, making them balanced? Woo logic
I also just put a Ganondorf up against a Snake, and Ganon won, so Ganon>Snake as you say?
You can make up things all day but that doesn't make them true, if you could take a video of that battle then I could have a reason to believe you. You don't have a counter arguement lol so really I'm winning this battle.
__________________
Brawl Name: Mar
Brawl FC: 1848-2755-8203
Yes, but tier lists supposedly exist in ALL smash games.
And I listened, you were just wrong.
__________________
~RAWR~
Spoiler Alert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leves
This pwnage is brought to you by S.S.
Pwnage isn't pwnage unless its S.S. pwnage.
...I hate the little bastard. He could win a debate that the world is flat. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma
Welcome aboard to the S.S. Awesome
Awesome list:
Leves, Axtlar, Steph, Marioman, Wario, D_L, icyloopia, Emaa, Wreked, Shoko, Cyan, and prolly some others
Fox is not top tier, he just doesn't have that material, not many people would agree with you on that at all. I never said it would be exact but I said it would be accurate.
But the Ganon/Snake fight you have nothing to say for? As I expected.
That is true but really, he doesn't have any proof or a counter arguement for that matter.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkfish
But the Ganon/Snake fight you have nothing to say for? As I expected.
You obviously weren't reading carefully enough.....
You can make up things all day but that doesn't make them true, if you could take a video of that battle then I could have a reason to believe you. You don't have a counter arguement or any proof lol so really I'm winning this battle.
__________________
Brawl Name: Mar
Brawl FC: 1848-2755-8203
That is true but really, he doesn't have any proof or a counter arguement for that matter.....
You obviously weren't reading carefully enough.....
You can make up things all day but that doesn't make them true, if you could take a video of that battle then I could have a reason to believe you. You don't have a counter arguement or any proof lol so really I'm winning this battle.
Sure. Ima go record it right now with my sticks and leaves.
So wheres your proof that Fox beat Yoshi? I'm waiting for that. Seriously, hypocrisy at its finest.
You obviously weren't reading carefully enough.....
Or maybe YOU'RE not reading carefully enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
You can make up things all day but that doesn't make them true,
Too true. For example, you could be like "there's such thing as a tier list" and it still wouldn't be true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
if you could take a video of that battle then I could have a reason to believe you.
I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just saying you're wrong. You HAVE to realize that EVERYTHING varies based on skill level. Plus, even with CPUs there is some amount of luck and good timing involved. You can't base everything on your character choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
You don't have a counter arguement or any proof lol so really I'm winning this battle.
We've made several counter arguments, but you're being ignorant. And saying that you're winning an argument is proof that you're too stubborn to see any side other than your own. I, on the other hand, have considered and tested tiers (and for a time, believed they were real) but still STRONGLY believe that there is no such thing UNLESS (as I stated above, but once again it was YOU that was not reading carefully enough) you break it into skill types, but even THEN it will depend completely on the player, but it will help players choose a character best suited to their playing style.
EDIT:
Quote:
Guys no offense, but CPUs don't help make the tier list. At least I don't think they do. =/
Who came up with that silly idea?
Mar did XP
Quote:
lol that isn't helping your counter arguement one bit, and considering it shows fox beating yoshi on the chart I don't even need to.
That is really the only way to do it, it shows the characters skill only not the persons ability to use the character.
So if I photoshop the chart to say that Yoshi will beat Fox then I don't have to get you a recording? Somebody created that chart based on their evidence gathered by observing their personal playing style...personally, I would have made my chart a lot different because of my style. Again, it's all purely opinion-based.
__________________
~RAWR~
Spoiler Alert!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leves
This pwnage is brought to you by S.S.
Pwnage isn't pwnage unless its S.S. pwnage.
...I hate the little bastard. He could win a debate that the world is flat. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma
Welcome aboard to the S.S. Awesome
Awesome list:
Leves, Axtlar, Steph, Marioman, Wario, D_L, icyloopia, Emaa, Wreked, Shoko, Cyan, and prolly some others
lol that isn't helping your counter arguement one bit, and considering it shows fox beating yoshi on the chart I don't even need to.
That is really the only way to do it, it shows the characters skill only not the persons skill.
Okay, now I see that your argument is completely flawed. Computers cant combo, DI, or strategize. However, human players can, and they can play character to their full potential. You can't base your thesis on computer players because they can't do anything that a human player can.
Too true. For example, you could be like "there's such thing as a tier list" and it still wouldn't be true.
I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just saying you're wrong. You HAVE to realize that EVERYTHING varies based on skill level. Plus, even with CPUs there is some amount of luck and good timing involved. You can't base everything on your character choice.
We've made several counter arguments, but you're being ignorant. And saying that you're winning an argument is proof that you're too stubborn to see any side other than your own. I, on the other hand, have considered and tested tiers (and for a time, believed they were real) but still STRONGLY believe that there is no such thing UNLESS (as I stated above, but once again it was YOU that was not reading carefully enough) you break it into skill types, but even THEN it will depend completely on the player, but it will help players choose a character best suited to their playing style.
EDIT:
Mar did XP
Ok first off I wasn't even talking to you second of you didn't even listen to a word I said. TIERS ARE NOT BASED ON THE A PERSONS ABILITY TO USE A CHARACTER, TIERS ARE BASED ON THE CHARACTERS ABILITIES BY THEMSELVES............... I don't know why it is so hard to understand that................. and the person who made that chart obviously put sometime into it and so have I. You haven't listened to a word I have said the whole time......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkfish
Okay, now I see that your argument is completely flawed. Computers cant combo, DI, or strategize. However, human players can, and they can play character to their full potential. You can't base your thesis on computer players because they can't do anything that a human player can.
You almost thought you had me didn't you, well your wrong. Yes your right a cpu can't do these things but that isn't the characters ability to do, that is the person using the character. That is not how Tiers are made up, they are made up by the characters abilites and only the characters abilities NOT THE PERSONS!!!!!!!
__________________
Brawl Name: Mar
Brawl FC: 1848-2755-8203
Ok first off I wasn't even talking to you second of you didn't even listen to a word I said. TIERS ARE NOT BASED ON THE A PERSONS ABILITY TO USE A CHARACTER, TIERS ARE BASED ON THE CHARACTERS ABILITIES BY THEMSELVES............... I don't know why it is so hard to understand that................. and the person who made that chart obviously put sometime into it and so have I. You haven't listened to a word I have said the whole time......
You almost thought you had me didn't you, well your wrong. Yes your right a cpu can't do these things but that isn't the characters ability to do, that is the person using the character. That is not how Tiers are made up, they are made up by the characters abilites and only the characters abilities NOT THE PERSONS!!!!!!!
And this is where I defeat you. A characters placing on the tier list is made by taking everything in regard. Combos, the characters possible Techniques, etc. Can computer characters do those things? I don't think so.
Hey Mar, you agree that Snake is top tier, right? Okay, then why is a level 9 Snake so crappy? Because it's nonhuman. Human players bring out the abilities of the characters they master. Understand?
And this is where I defeat you. A characters placing on the tier list is made by taking everything in regard. Combos, the characters possible Techniques, etc. Can computer characters do those things? I don't think so.
But then it isn't accurate because there are all different skill levels. Tiers are based upon the chars basic playing ability which is what a computer does, not what a human does. What were you even trying to prove.
Twilight Hero: I know your right but when you do cpu vs. cpu it is a totally different story.
Now I have to eat dinner can we continue our arguement in lets say an hour or so.
__________________
Brawl Name: Mar
Brawl FC: 1848-2755-8203
Hey Mar, you agree that Snake is top tier, right? Okay, then why is a level 9 Snake so crappy? Because it's nonhuman. Human players bring out the abilities of the characters they master. Understand?
And he agrees with me!
Quote:
But then it isn't accurate because there are all different skill levels. Tiers are based upon the chars basic playing ability which is what a computer does, not what a human does. What were you even trying to prove.
Okay, now you just fail. I'm sure even spiff will agree with me on this. A CHARACTERS PLACING ON A TIER LIST IS MADE BY TAKING EVERYTHING INTO ACCOUNT. POSSIBLE TECHNIQUES, COMBOS, ETC. ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES, NOT HOW A COMPUTER FARES AGAINST ANOTHER COMPUTER.
