Brawl Tier List Discussion

Jay61 · 06-30-2008, 04:17 PM

lol, don't worry I was only screwin' round.

ssbb_lover · 06-30-2008, 04:33 PM

Impressive posts in here. I stopped coming around these parts do to all the newbies who were frustrating to deal with. May start re-visiting this section, possibly even break my 3 month hiatus from Brawl.

JakesCakes · 06-30-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

Snake is so overly simple to use and win with, so I generally don't play as him because it just isn't fun.

Mario is great, his fireball REALLY opens up oppurtunities

hah im sorry but that statement makes no sense.

Snake is the most complex character to use. There is infinite tactics to employ when using Snake. No other character has the ability to utilize so many projectiles and mindgames at his disposal.

Mario's fireball has got to be a joke as far as projectile usefulness is concerned when compared to snake. it lacks the range of a grenade, the ability to time it as well. also hes got the Nikita/ up smash

I am going to assume he's too complex for you to comprehend, or maybe you're not able to open your mind to his creativeness.

Shadow*91 · 06-30-2008, 05:07 PM

snake is hard to use but if used to his full extent he can counter everything easily

vashivihan · 06-30-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakesCakes

hah im sorry but that statement makes no sense.

Snake is the most complex character to use. There is infinite tactics to employ when using Snake. No other character has the ability to utilize so many projectiles and mindgames at his disposal.

Mario's fireball has got to be a joke as far as projectile usefulness is concerned when compared to snake. it lacks the range of a grenade, the ability to time it as well. also hes got the Nikita/ up smash

I am going to assume he's too complex for you to comprehend, or maybe you're not able to open your mind to his creativeness.

QFT. marios fireballs suck

spiff-ssbb · 06-30-2008, 05:14 PM

on Mario's fireballs:
they don't suck. you need them to be a good mario user. many times people under use projectiles with limited range because they're more difficult to camp with (for some reason people only like the campy projectiles) but if used properly Mario's fireballs will frustrate your opponent. I don't main mario but i use them to:
-interrupt entries
-start combo's
-shield pressure
-ledge guard

never underestimate any projectile

Jay61 · 06-30-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakesCakes

hah im sorry but that statement makes no sense.

Snake is the most complex character to use. There is infinite tactics to employ when using Snake. No other character has the ability to utilize so many projectiles and mindgames at his disposal.

I think he's as complex as you want him to be, sure you could use infinate tactics with him, but at the same time you could just not think into that so much and play him in your own style. His versatility will definatly help him in the tiers.

vashivihan · 06-30-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiff-ssbb

on Mario's fireballs:
they don't suck. you need them to be a good mario user. many times people under use projectiles with limited range because they're more difficult to camp with (for some reason people only like the campy projectiles) but if used properly Mario's fireballs will frustrate your opponent. I don't main mario but i use them to:
-interrupt entries
-start combo's
-shield pressure
-ledge guard

never underestimate any projectile

as a falcon mainer, i think: projectile? what projectile???

on a serious note. marios fireball suck compared to other projectile(EDIT: but thats just me maybe i suck with marios fireballs). but i do love his side b. amazing.

ZEROLAZAR · 06-30-2008, 06:08 PM

To Jakes:

Seems you're still a little sore because you couldn't take a joke. Put a little baby powder on your bottom. It helps.

Now, you misunderstood me. I said Snake is simple to use and win with, because he IS. Yes there are many tactics to use as Snake, but guess what? You don't need to use them to win. You could win with the simplest tactics as Snake. That's what I meant. Yes, Snake is badass and he's a great character, and I'll probably main him again soon enough. That doesn't take away the fact that you don't really have to move to win.

Mario's fireballs are good, what are you talking about? They may not have large range, but the 45 degree descent of them is very useful. If used as just the right distance away (not hard to find), you can shoot a fireball, and hit them while the fireball's stun time is still in effect. WHAT'S THAT? IS THAT A COMBO? OMFG.

spiff-ssbb · 07-05-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay61

Okay, I will

Ivysaur

Medium speed I'd say, your usually better off not chasing opponents off the level unless its an easy KO, she has a bit of lag to her and is a bit lighter than she probably should be, but she's really more of a ranged fighter so this is okay. Its also pretty much never a good idea to be above her.

Standard jab combo comes out fast and fairly weak, and progressivly weaker, but if your close the opponent it keeps them in place for a few attacks. Dash attack is the best of the three Pokémon's in terms of power and speed. Ftilt has some good range for a "close range" attack, hard to counter with good damage (around 14%) with great combo ability with Ivysaus bair. Utilt is pretty average, its sort of good for avoiding things though as your vines aren't counted as your hitbox. Dtilt is also meh.

Smashes, Fsmash, awesome. Nice and fast pretty good range, a perfect KO move...its also hard to avoid unless you know Ivysaur, as it has a weird hitbox/range. Usmash AMAZING, slightly impractical, but if you connect with a partly charged one of these the opponent will be shooting into the backround at 50-60%..the hitbox is larger than the attack leads you to believe, so it can suprise too, a little lag though unfortunatly. Dsmash, meh, good for a speedy hit, but thats it.

Great range on her grab, Fthrow and Bthrow are good and can KO at higher %'s, but this is probably one of her weaker area's.

Bullet seed is ridiculously good when you catch them just right, if you get it right the opponent is lucky to get away with 40% and it also sets up so many more moves perfectly, following up with an Uair is deadly. Her teather recovery is so easily countered, so thats definatly a mark down, although it has some suprising range and as an attack its both suprising and strong when the tip connects..try it on an enemy whos leaping towards you, they will not see it coming. Razor leaf is a pretty slow projectile, with an odd arch as it flys..its more useful at med range than long. It is perfect for stopping other projectiles though, infact it stops them and then keeps going.

In the air Ivysaur is a little sluggish, but strong. Uair is basicly an Usmash but weaker, a perfect suprise KO attack, the same with the Dair which can be used to spike or just slam the opponent against the floor. Fair and Nair are pretty quick, Nair is weak but hasn't got much lag, Fair is great for KO's. The problem with Ivysaur in the air is once she begins to get juggled around, your stuck unless your really quick with the air dodge/ DI.

I'll do Squirtle and Charizard in a bit

good points. i agree with all but one thing. regardless of how dangerous it is, in brawl you MUST chase an opponent off the stage if you want to win (against good people obviously) its the only way to get a quick KO really, gimp them far away from the stage, whether your CF, Ike, Marth, DK, or Ivysaur it must be done.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-06-2008, 03:52 AM

Ivysaur can safely chase, what are you talking about?

He has great range on his Bair, good power and range on his Fair, his Uair is deadly, and he can just disrupt you with razor leaf.

Tether recoveries are also the safest recovery in the game when your opponent is off-stage. It's instant and reliable, and you only have to use a button. A tether recovery only sucks when there's a possibility of edgehogging. Jump off, bair, jump, bair, razor leaf, vine whip recover.

anax4aero · 07-06-2008, 04:22 AM

I haven't read all pages, simply 'cause there are a lot, but have you guys talked about zero suit samus? I've been exploring her recently and the possibilities are surprising. Great fighter.

On the issue of Ivysaur, the chase is not that much of an issue, not only because it can be done (Bair then tether recovery should be enough most of the times) but also because his greatest killing potential is star KOs. The only powerful attack that doesn't send them up is Fsmash, as far as I have seen.

cody420 · 07-06-2008, 05:11 AM

Im new here n im a frequent brawler in need of challengers. Any takers? Im not a push over on brawl ill say that much n i luv wifi matches, so help me out pleeze.

Shadow*91 · 07-06-2008, 11:11 AM

post challenges somewhere else

as for ZSS i haven't checked but yeah she has possibilities
her up-b if used right spikes(i've done it) or pulls them down to get smashed
her forward-b is what does the most if the tip hits
her down-b is more usefull in sse but the kick can do a spike so with practice it could dominate
her stun gun is useful but a d-smash does the same and can't be reflected so i find it more useful
her standard-a combo or up-a are best for close range
her throws are decent enough to use them often
her b-air owns as well of her u-air
her speed is good and her final smash is decent but should only be used if you can use samus well
and the fact that she relies on a tether recovery is her only big weakness

so did i miss anything?

spiff-ssbb · 07-06-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

Ivysaur can safely chase, what are you talking about?

He has great range on his Bair, good power and range on his Fair, his Uair is deadly, and he can just disrupt you with razor leaf.

Tether recoveries are also the safest recovery in the game when your opponent is off-stage. It's instant and reliable, and you only have to use a button. A tether recovery only sucks when there's a possibility of edgehogging. Jump off, bair, jump, bair, razor leaf, vine whip recover.

ah i agree. tether recoveries are great for ledge hogging as well. since you don't get hurt if someone hits your tether and it counts as you being on the ledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anax4aero

I haven't read all pages, simply 'cause there are a lot, but have you guys talked about zero suit samus? I've been exploring her recently and the possibilities are surprising. Great fighter.

On the issue of Ivysaur, the chase is not that much of an issue, not only because it can be done (Bair then tether recovery should be enough most of the times) but also because his greatest killing potential is star KOs. The only powerful attack that doesn't