Brawl Tier List Discussion

anax4aero · 07-20-2008, 01:12 AM

damn, I missed a lot in one day of not coming.

First of all, I'll say in my defense that spiff did mention "one KO move" for sonic somewhere in this thread, forgot by now. Also, I got nothing against spiff, I just have the need to defend poor ol' sonic who a lot of people seem to dismiss.

Ganondorf...I had a lot of issues with him since Brawl came out, but recently I'm making amends with him. However, something I find is a problem with all extremely large characters (DK, DDD, Ganondorf) is that an opponent can easily land a serious combo and then run away. Repeat and rinse, and you have an issue. Think of the raping a good squirtle could manage.

Olimar does come close to godly, but he has his counters. A good lucario can keep an Olimar in a tight situation and take the pikmin as an advantage (The aura ability). Theoretically, I think other range based characters can keep olimar away, I'm thinking perhaps Link/Toon Link or Samus. But this is theory, I haven't really tested any of this. Also, as a Wolf user I can land a beating on Olimar but I see it as an even match. A good olimar can easily screw Wolf's recovery with a purple pikmin and edgehog.

Falco is good, but I can only see a shadow of his melee self. Wolf and Fox are much better as I see it. Personally I say Wolf owns them due to simple sheer power.

Last thing, I haven't really reached the point of seeing any character as broken. Snake, like Olimar, is a beast in good hands, but otherwise a complete pushover. He can be an easier target than Olimar and it's not hard to turn his attacks against him.
In the end it's probably going to be the question of Olimar vs. Snake for top of the top.

R.O.B15 · 07-20-2008, 03:08 AM

You know, I really don't think about these things, I pick a move and I kill them, simple!

Carlisle · 07-20-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anax4aero

In the end it's probably going to be the question of Olimar vs. Snake vs. Mr. Game and Watch for top of the top.

fixed

ZEROLAZAR · 07-20-2008, 03:18 AM

Sonic isn't dismissed.. he's just "different".

A good heavy-character player keeps the match on his or her terms. Most (if not all) of the heavy characters have suitable means to prevent juggling and comboing. That's why the neutral A combos for heavies are used alot, because that's their only quick defense, and it works great.

Lucario might be a decent counter pick to Olimar. Toon Link might be decent because his small size and short hop + bair could dodge the Pikmin while still allowing an attack, but any ground game will be quickly and easily punished. Samus' projectiles get soaked up by any pikmin, even a fully charged LAZAR will get soaked up into a Pikmin used in a front smash, and even a throw. Wolf has good range, so he's formidable against Olimar.

Falco is the best spacie. No landing lag on any aerials, chaingrabs, easiest character to pull off a spike, quick, strong, amazing at combos. In a comparison, he is even better than he was in Melee (from a Brawl perspective. Every character has been nerfed from Melee, due to the new engine.) Also, Wolf isn't as strong as I would have hoped. His aerials are pretty weak in knockback(although it allows comboing), and overall his attacks don't lead to many low percent kills. He is, however, great at racking up damage and then finishing them at higher percents. He can also sustain quite a bit since he's a heavy.

Snake is amazing too. Snake and Olimar are both top of the top. And G&W..

anax4aero · 07-20-2008, 05:16 AM

Frankly, Game and Watch suffers from being such a lightweight. Also, some of his attacks have a lag that is punishable if he misses. But I do admit he's among the top, mostly because his...looks...and movement make it hard for one to even know what he's doing. And if he doesn't miss...then it's hell.

ZL, you know that Samus has more than projectiles, after all I'm good with Samus now because of your advice. Pikmin can soak a lot of things, but not everything.

Oh, and Wolf can easily kill at low percentages. You can take my word for it, it's not difficult. Wolf for best of spacies!!

spiff-ssbb · 07-20-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorkfish

There is only 1 broken char, Snake. Falco is just really good.

what do you call Meta? lol

to Anax:
on sonic:
i actually sub sonic. i wasn't hating on the poor little blue guy just pointing out his weaknesses.. i'm not much of a hit and run guy

on Olimar:
the perfect Olimar counter is actually Yoshi. super armor on second jump helps defend against pikmin as does roll out. pivot grab works wonders as well

on G&W:
hes incredible because of his versatility. most well balanced tilts in the game in my opinion. all super fast and awesome for combo's into aerials. i only wish the down tilt KO'd like in melee

Marth101 · 07-20-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiff-ssbb

what do you call Meta? lol

to Anax:
on sonic:
i actually sub sonic. i wasn't hating on the poor little blue guy just pointing out his weaknesses.. i'm not much of a hit and run guy

on Olimar:
the perfect Olimar counter is actually Yoshi. super armor on second jump helps defend against pikmin as does roll out. pivot grab works wonders as well

on G&W:
hes incredible because of his versatility. most well balanced tilts in the game in my opinion. all super fast and awesome for combo's into aerials. i only wish the down tilt KO'd like in melee

lol

MK is the first thing that pops into my head when I hear the word Broken lol

spiff-ssbb · 07-20-2008, 07:33 PM

^ haha same! stupid b button infinites lol

anax4aero · 07-21-2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiff-ssbb

on G&W:
hes incredible because of his versatility. most well balanced tilts in the game in my opinion. all super fast and awesome for combo's into aerials. i only wish the down tilt KO'd like in melee

Yea, that was sad, it was one of my overused moves in melee, along with the flag. But I guess they compensated by making Dsmash extremely powerful. Back in melee those hammers were rarely useful.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-21-2008, 02:33 AM

His down smash is one of the best in the game, hands down..

Extremely quick, good range, 0 lag afterwards, very powerful.

A down throw chains right into one, and it's inescapable.

Marth101 · 07-21-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

His down smash is one of the best in the game, hands down..

Extremely quick, good range, 0 lag afterwards, very powerful.

A down throw chains right into one, and it's inescapable.

IMO its the second best D-smash next to MK's (Curse you MK

)

BR3N7 · 07-21-2008, 03:28 AM

6/31/08 Japan Rankings

Here is the order by performance on the japanese curcuit.

1. Snake
2. Falco
3. Metaknight
4. R.O.B.
5. Diddy
6. Fox
7. Marth
8. Wolf
9. Game and Watch
10. Toon Link
11. Pit
12. IC's
13. Olimar
14. Zamus
15. Pikachu
16. Mario
17. Lucario
18. Kirby
19. Sheik
20. Dedede
21. Lucas
22. Weegee
23. Wario
24. Ike
25. Bowser
26. Zelda
27. DK
28. Ness
29. Peach
30. Link
31. Samus
32. Sonic
33. C. Falcon
34. Jiggs
35. PT
36. Yoshi
37. Ganon

It seems right. I mean its what it is.

I think I can make a few good Main+4 counter picks to defeat any character im up against.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-21-2008, 03:32 AM

Wow. What are the rules for that particular circuit? I'd expect Olimar to be higher.

Marth101 · 07-21-2008, 03:40 AM

Wow! Falco is doing better than MK, thats a surprise.

BR3N7 · 07-21-2008, 03:41 AM

its just the standings from the tournaments there , the regular tournament rules.

Just thought id share the list with you guys.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-21-2008, 04:01 AM

I always knew Falco was better than MK :P

That list inspired me to do what I've been planning since before Brawl was even released : Be ROB. He's weird as hell, and he's so different to play compared to Marth, Sheik, and Falco... Lmfao.

Dorkfish · 07-21-2008, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR3N7

6/31/08 Japan Rankings

Here is the order by performance on the japanese curcuit.

1. Snake
2. Falco
3. Metaknight
4. R.O.B.
5. Diddy
6. Fox
7. Marth
8. Wolf
9. Game and Watch
10. Toon Link
11. Pit
12. IC's
13. Olimar
14. Zamus
15. Pikachu
16. Mario
17. Lucario
18. Kirby
19. Sheik
20. Dedede
21. Lucas
22. Weegee
23. Wario
24. Ike
25. Bowser
26. Zelda
27. DK
28. Ness
29. Peach
30. Link
31. Samus
32. Sonic
33. C. Falcon
34. Jiggs
35. PT
36. Yoshi
37. Ganon

It seems right. I mean its what it is.

I think I can make a few good Main+4 counter picks to defeat any character im up against.

Wewt. Not awesome but great. Go japan!

BR3N7 · 07-21-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

I always knew Falco was better than MK :P

That list inspired me to do what I've been planning since before Brawl was even released : Be ROB. He's weird as hell, and he's so different to play compared to Marth, Sheik, and Falco... Lmfao.

Its just most people learned to beat MK a little easier.

And Ya im pretty much going with ROB as well but because he is prettty damn good and has as many good matchups as SNAKE. He is going to be on my 5 team almost for sure. Him and Mr Game and Watch .