Tiers are opinion based.

Done and done.

Tier Lists are made official when everyone can agree on something. Tiers tell how well a character is in major tournaments, not how much a person likes the character. Tiers are never opinion based, Tiers are fact based, get over it.

In previous Smash Bros, yes.

In Brawl, it's about the player. I'm done argueing though, so when you get your ass kicked by a "low tier character", and call the match a fluke or a joke or whatever, it's just you lieing to yourself.

^It's not about wins or losses, it's about overall potential.

A master of a high-tier will always beat a master of a low-tier (because of potential not skill), in theory.

Normally, tiers aren't that much of a problem.

But the kicker in Brawl is the final smashes.

Let's take Sonic, for example.

He sucks. Period. But, his final smash can win you games.

The top tier can change depending on how a person uses them.

Ice Climbers can really, REALLY be good if you know how to use them in certain situations.

/Bow

Thank you, thats relatively what I wanted to say but I couldn't figure out how to word it.

There's way too much to factor into a character to rank them high or low tier. In melee it was obvious. In brawl it would take a huge, complicated math formula to rank a character.

No PLAYER has the potential to totally and completely master a character and all situations/circumstances the character in question can be put into. Therefore, max potential isn't even a factor. Player skill is the factor.

By "No PLAYER", do you mean yourself? What does math have to do with it? The better the character is for tournament play the higher they will be on the Tier List, get over it. Tiers exist and always will exist as long as fighting games are around. It is impossible to balance a game perfectly so that every character is evenly matched.

but in my opinion sakurai did a pretty good job, i believe there are tiers in brawl, but i believe the space from the highest tier character to the lowest tier character, isn't very big.

^ Above poster, I will have sex with you.

That's what I meant. The space between the tiers is very small, when considering player skill.

First you say "TIRES DON EXITS!!!11!1!". Now you say that there are Tiers. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Dude, let it go...ZEROLAZAR has shown more brains than you have in his argument, and now he's compromising and you keep at it. it was mushroomedmario that saved your argument from being based on empty words.

I already stated before all the factors it takes to truly measure "tiers", and ZEROLAZAR is right in that in the end it boils down to the player. And even if you think it isn't, it's my opinion and that of others, so accept that.

I applaud Sakurai for making such a balanced game, and ZEROLAZAR and mushroomedmario for being smart about this argument.

*deep, heavy, frustrated sigh*

Anyone who debates the non existence of tiers is insane. And hop3less, Final Smashes probably won't need to be factored in since competitive play is item-banned (thank god for that as well)

As for what the tier list will look like, its too early to tell. And whilst the gap is smaller, I believe the gap between mid tier and low tier is going to be relatively big.

High and mid are going to be close.

Wow, what a discussion that isn't really on topic anymore.

I would agree that it is very hard to rank many of the brawl character, great job at balancing.

I haven't practiced with alot of character's, but here's my input into the discussion.

Pit - arrow spam, racks up damage quick with A and side-B, side smash is quick and can launch character's out nicely.
Lucas - up smash, up smash, and can I say it again up smash. I think his up smash can put someone out around 55% damage. He's also got great specials.
Ganondorf - he's not the best 1on1 guy (same as the other slow chars), but I'm pretty sure he's got the most launching power of any character and can really rack up some KO's quickly.
Olimar - not the best specials, but his side and up smashes have great reach and potentially have awesome launching power
Toon Link - way better than regular Link, Toon lacks the launching power, but his speed more than makes up for the lost power.
Snake - as mentioned, his A combo can launch characters out. Also depending on the stage, his up smash can be the most effective move in the game IMO. Other than that his other moves are mostly for show.
Lucario - Seems pretty mid-tier to me. He is pretty strong and quick, but I can't ever seem to KO anybody with him.

This is just my 2 cents on where some of these characters should be tiered.