Brawl Tier List Discussion

anax4aero · 07-30-2008, 04:26 AM

yea, but it's not hard to pick up the bananas yourself and screw up his plans. It'd be as if anyone could pick up snakes mines or missiles, get my point?

as for Wolf, the Fsmash is a great approach...if it doesn't hit them with the sweet spot, it trips them. It's good for opening up their defenses, and also for movement. Many times I've killed opponents (mainly olimar) by literally pushing them towards the edge with standard attacks and Fsmash, then when they try to jump back, Dsmash. If they don't die from that, an edgehog usually finishes it.

Dorkfish · 07-30-2008, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anax4aero

yea, but it's not hard to pick up the bananas yourself and screw up his plans. It'd be as if anyone could pick up snakes mines or missiles, get my point?

as for Wolf, the Fsmash is a great approach...if it doesn't hit them with the sweet spot, it trips them. It's good for opening up their defenses, and also for movement. Many times I've killed opponents (mainly olimar) by literally pushing them towards the edge with standard attacks and Fsmash, then when they try to jump back, Dsmash. If they don't die from that, an edgehog usually finishes it.

not all the time though, and Olimar is super overrated.

spiff-ssbb · 07-30-2008, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorkfish

I personally think that both Earthbounders are easy to gimp. If you can't hit them out of their upB while its moving to hit him in the ass, you're too slow! Take TL for example. All I have to do is fall off of the ledge, jump backwards, bair, gimp kill'd. This is great in Brawl for ALOT of characters actually, thanks to floatyness and 80% of the cast having a great recovery

yes this is true... one of the reasons why their so low on the tier list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anax4aero

yea, but it's not hard to pick up the bananas yourself and screw up his plans. It'd be as if anyone could pick up snakes mines or missiles, get my point?

as for Wolf, the Fsmash is a great approach...if it doesn't hit them with the sweet spot, it trips them. It's good for opening up their defenses, and also for movement. Many times I've killed opponents (mainly olimar) by literally pushing them towards the edge with standard attacks and Fsmash, then when they try to jump back, Dsmash. If they don't die from that, an edgehog usually finishes it.

its hard if done right. since Diddy has the best dash attack animation for picking them up he usually gets them faster. don't throw from distance. space well.

wolf's F smash is laggy, especially on cool down. and it has a short hit box duration. so its easily spaced/side stepped into counter smash. the good range on it doesn't make up for its weak range and incredible lag

anax4aero · 07-30-2008, 04:55 AM

^ well, so far it hasn't ceased to work for me

spiff-ssbb · 07-30-2008, 04:55 AM

haha each to his own i suppose

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 05:02 AM

I think Wolf's F-smash is great, just weak. It doesn't have that much cool down.. where'd you get that from?

In my opinion, I dislike both Links, but I find Link better just because of personal opinion, and his ground game is strong.

In the earthbounders, they're only easy to gimp if they're dumb. Lucas is harder to gimp since he has the Snake and his UpB goes through people, but both of them can start their recovery at just the right distance so that it hits them just barely onto the stage. Then it's too far out to gimp, and it bypasses ledge hogging.

EastBeast beat me a long time ago, but since then I've improved and I just make him trip more than I do. :P (He was a good Diddy before)

Olimar isn't overrated, he's complete rape.

Again, Wolf's F-Smash is very useful.

spiff-ssbb · 07-30-2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

I think Wolf's F-smash is great, just weak. It doesn't have that much cool down.. where'd you get that from?

In my opinion, I dislike both Links, but I find Link better just because of personal opinion, and his ground game is strong.

In the earthbounders, they're only easy to gimp if they're dumb. Lucas is harder to gimp since he has the Snake and his UpB goes through people, but both of them can start their recovery at just the right distance so that it hits them just barely onto the stage. Then it's too far out to gimp, and it bypasses ledge hogging.

EastBeast beat me a long time ago, but since then I've improved and I just make him trip more than I do. :P (He was a good Diddy before)

Olimar isn't overrated, he's complete rape.

Again, Wolf's F-Smash is very useful.

i get that from constantly punishing people when they miss in off line matches. you can at least get a tilt in to start a combo. or just full jump into a hammer for Kirby mainers.

to be honest if invincibility frames are used correctly then every character is easy to ledge hog. but earth bounders are easier cuz of the long animations... i'd explain more but its bed time

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 05:21 AM

It's impossible to miss Wolf's F-smash. Unless you're a total noob anyways. It's meant to punish.

Invincibility frames are dumb I think. There's way too many for the ledge. There should be a limit, or at least a time limit before you get invincibility frames back.

spiff-ssbb · 07-30-2008, 05:24 AM

^ nope. to me its perfect... we need SOMETHING to allow us to ledge hog... characters can make the ledge from incredible distance now. aggressive ledge hoggers needed something. and no... its not impossible... its a simple L+Down and its auto missed... you know this lol

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 05:31 AM

How would the game fair without Invincibility frames? You can still edgeguard, but now from the stage. :P

Dorkfish · 07-30-2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

I think Wolf's F-smash is great, just weak. It doesn't have that much cool down.. where'd you get that from?

In my opinion, I dislike both Links, but I find Link better just because of personal opinion, and his ground game is strong.

In the earthbounders, they're only easy to gimp if they're dumb. Lucas is harder to gimp since he has the Snake and his UpB goes through people, but both of them can start their recovery at just the right distance so that it hits them just barely onto the stage. Then it's too far out to gimp, and it bypasses ledge hogging.

EastBeast beat me a long time ago, but since then I've improved and I just make him trip more than I do. :P (He was a good Diddy before)

Olimar isn't overrated, he's complete rape.

Again, Wolf's F-Smash is very useful.

Hes rape if hes more than 6 inches away from the stage? I had no idea! Only a noob can't figure out how to get past olimar's walls.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 07:54 AM

That's not it, but have you noticed the RANGE and SPEED of his grabs?

He's a very easy to play character in my opinion. I picked him up for 10 minutes and I was beating everyone. He's so good he doesn't need Pikmin. I was nolimaring people to death.

Dorkfish · 07-30-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

That's not it, but have you noticed the RANGE and SPEED of his grabs?

He's a very easy to play character in my opinion. I picked him up for 10 minutes and I was beating everyone. He's so good he doesn't need Pikmin. I was nolimaring people to death.

WHO THE **** WHERE YOU PLAYING IF YOU WERE PLAYING WITH NO PIKMIN???

Olimar without pikmin is... Ganon

I've played plenty of Olimars, I've kind of figured out the "general" strategy. Watching utoob vidjos of NC-Echo's Oli helps too because like every mainstream olimar worships him and will blow him if they ask

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 09:07 AM

ROFL.

The only Olimar I've played is PrinceLink.. and the one time I played him, he was so spammy. He kicked my ass, though. I need a rematch, that was a long time ago.

Olimar's spinning attacks are godlike... and his tilts have AMAZING range.. hell his neutral attack has great range.

Anyways, I'm starting to take a liking to Wolf.. hmm...

And by the way, you're right. TL is better, I played against a decent one today.

Dorkfish · 07-30-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

ROFL.

The only Olimar I've played is PrinceLink.. and the one time I played him, he was so spammy. He kicked my ass, though. I need a rematch, that was a long time ago.

Olimar's spinning attacks are godlike... and his tilts have AMAZING range.. hell his neutral attack has great range.

Anyways, I'm starting to take a liking to Wolf.. hmm...

And by the way, you're right. TL is better, I played against a decent one today.

:-O

Toon Links AAA range is just as good as Oli'z AA, never tested his tilts, I've only played AS the guy like 3 times, just to do is amazing head spin taunt...

Also, his F/U/D smash are punishable if you spot-dodge them, they aren't THAT fast. They do have some ending lag.

Just throwing this out there, too. The balloon on SV is the first thing both players should attack, because the balloon is evil and must die.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 09:48 AM

I forgot what SV is, but I'm going to guess it's that Melee Zelda map :P

Olimar's -> Tilt makes Olimar do a drop kick about the same range as his forward smash.

His ^ Tilt makes him rise in the air spinning, and it's inescapable until the end.

His V Tilt is nearly the same as his -> Tilt, except it's along the ground and it's a two hit attack.

Dorkfish · 07-30-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZEROLAZAR

I forgot what SV is, but I'm going to guess it's that Melee Zelda map :P

Olimar's -> Tilt makes Olimar do a drop kick about the same range as his forward smash.

His ^ Tilt makes him rise in the air spinning, and it's inescapable until the end.

His V Tilt is nearly the same as his -> Tilt, except it's along the ground and it's a two hit attack.

I will have to check the ranges, but thanks for the info. Smashville btw.

ZEROLAZAR · 07-30-2008, 09:52 AM

There's a balloon? Lmfao

Going to bed (it's 5 AM), laidher.