Brawl Tier List Discussion

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 01:49 AM

^Sorry. The abrv. are identical.

Anyway, have you been able to KO using a low percentage Lucario?

mushroomedmario · 04-15-2008, 01:50 AM

yes, many times, if lucario dies first, he has a small disadvantage, but he can still KO once he spawns......if the opponent is around 100%

Dorkfish · 04-15-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashWiki

Pros:

* Strong projectile that charges faster and is more powerful at higher percents
* All Aerials are quick and have decent damage, knockback, priority and range properties
* Down Aerial stops vertical momentum, allowing it to be used right off the ground as a Pseudo-Shffl, or in midair to aid recovery.
* Low damage means easier to combo with
* Neutral normal combo is strong and can be used for approaches
* Can Wall Cling (lasts up to five seconds, the longest wall cling in the game)
* Highest Wall Jump in the game.
* Can Crawl
* Can "bend" its recovery, giving it a number of options
* Unexpectedly long range (hits extend outside of its body)
* Its Forward Air is similar to Marth's in the way that you can fit two in one short hop and can hit with both on any opponent with you or your opponent being at any percentage
* Has great combos and flexible moves
* Side B has a significant Wavebounce
* Side B can also act as a chain grab at low percent
* Grab attacks (not throws) can be used swiftly and repeatedly and barely have lag
* Get's stronger as he takes damage, making is so he has the advantage late in a life
* Can counter

Cons:

* Fairly weak when it hasn't taken much damage, creating a disadvantage in the beginning of matches and against low-percent opponents
* Needs to be high-percentage for decent strength, making him susceptable to KO.
* Since knockback changes with damage taken, it is harder to come up with "set" combos, since there are too many variables
* Smashes are fairly slow except for down smash
* ExtremeSpeed does no damage and has a noticeable amount of ending lag.
* Often targeted at higher percent to take away his advantage
* Double Team only works if attacked from the front
* All specials have slight lag at start

As you can see he does have quite a few disadvantages, but thats for you to decide.

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 02:08 AM

Yea the main disadvantage I thought prevented him from being 'great' was the variable in strength (and the lack of it at the start of the match).

Dorkfish · 04-15-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKill09

Yea the main disadvantage I thought prevented him from being 'great' was the variable in strength (and the lack of it at the start of the match).

And the fact that when he reaches the percentages that allow greater strength he is susceptible to KO.

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 02:13 AM

^Exactly. That's why I don't think he's capable of being high-tier. He's mid-tier possibly.

Dorkfish · 04-15-2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKill09

^Exactly. That's why I don't think he's capable of being high-tier. He's mid-tier possibly.

Yep, I agree. Lucario should get a spot in the Mid-High Tier. Next character up for discussion~Toon Link

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 04:07 AM

^Not actually.

It's a discussion of the top-tier characters. Nobody has stated that they will use the top-tier characters indefinitely. If you've noticed, a lot of people have different mains (not just 'top-tier'). Even those who are aware of the tiers choose to pick different characters. People will choose who they want to choose. This is merely based on statistics, it's not going to make everybody decide to pick a top-tier. You may keep your assumptions to yourself friend.

We aren't trying to rule tournaments by using the best characters. We are trying to have an educated conversation about the tier list however such a conversation is impossible with your pointless and irrelevant posts.

So, thank you for your comments but you are terribly mistaken with respect to the intent of this thread.

ZEROLAZAR · 04-15-2008, 04:09 AM

It wasn't stated as an attack, just what I thought was probable.

My mistake.

ZEROLAZAR · 04-15-2008, 04:11 AM

But, an educated answer to that question would be:

The best character for an INDIVIDUAL is the character they enjoy playing most.

But you don't want to hear that, you want stats and facts.

In that case, Ike is one of the best. He's got range, good speed for a heavy, he's heavy, he can approach quickly, and he's much too strong than he should be.

I'm going to bed so I'll read any flame mail in the morning.

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 04:12 AM

^Understood. But it's not a fact. Spiff intentionally used Pichu in Melee because he was low-tier. It is definitely fun to vary your character choice. This is just a discussion about potential. Any character can beat another. But, the difference is, how easy it is for one character to beat another given the skills are the same. That's what we're talking about. If you want to talk go ahead. I think we're talking about Toon Link now.

Toon Link: I haven't had A TON of experience with him but I've decided he's much better than Link. His USmash is one swing instead of three, and his projectiles... oh they're just wonderful. I definitely see him as a top-tier.

Edit: To your second post. Precisely. We're talking about the top-tier. The best made characters for the population as a whole, simply because they're better. I like Luigi. Nobody else does but who cares. Play as you want. This is a thread based on stats, exactly. No opinions. "Favorite Character" is a different thread. This is "Tier List" so it's not a opinion-based thread. More fact with a dash of opinion.

EaStBeAsT · 04-15-2008, 04:37 AM

diddy low tier?
diddy hard to KO?

calm down ppl........

his aerial game is sick.......
and his bananas are BEASTly in the right hands

plus he has "3" meteor smashes bruh....

JKill09 · 04-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashwiki

Pros:

* Good speed
* Many quick attacks with a fair bit of power
* Very solid Down-Air Spike
* Two kinds of projectiles
* Banana Peels limit opponent's maneuverability and provide a great Glide Toss option.
* Can string together combos well
* Up and Forward Smashes have multiple hits
* Can Wall cling
* Can Crawl
* Good aerial game
* If used before his 2nd jump, his Side-B can be proceded by his second jump and allow him to use his Up-B
* When Up-B is fully charged, it covers a great distance.
* Strong Dash attack canceling with Upsmash
* Peanut Popgun goes rather fast and far when sufficiently charged.
* Up-B has spike potential when opponent is located at the bottom of the barrels.
* Can Diddycide

[edit] Cons:

* Light
* Peanut Popgun peanuts are weak, may arc straight over opponents and is slow if not charged.
* If hit during his Up-B recovery, he is incapable of using it again immediately.
* Over-reliant on spikes to gain early kills.
* His bananas can be used against him

He seems pretty good but looking at your post and the bold text ^. It seems like he's not terribly dynamic (he only does spikes/ meteor smashes). The bananas ^^ aren't exclusively his so they're not a 'GREAT" asset always. Just opinions here...

ZEROLAZAR · 04-15-2008, 12:14 PM

Squirtle seems like a better version of Diddy Kong, to be honest. With a better up smash, and with super armor frames with the front smash. Not to mention his withdraw, which basically makes you invincible.