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  1. #41
    Fully NextGen Enabled retro_joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadbury
    Yeah, I'm not arsed about what anyones said about my opinions or whatever else. But really, Lizard is a shit enemy. Look at Goblin and Doc Ock and so on, they were all intelligent, they got at spiderman throguh MJ and Aunt May and stuff liek that. Lizard just goes on rampages and when in human form he doesn't think evil thoughts. He's just basic and to be honest really he would make a crap antagonist for such a huge film.

    And as for all the other enemies listed, they may not be shit enemies, but look at the others, they've used the best ones, Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman, Venom. They are the biggest ones. So while the others may not be shit, they're just not as good as the others, and what's the point in making a film that's worse than the previous.

    And retro_joe, don't quite know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, not that I care, but Carnage without Venom would be shit. Carnage is Venom's enemy. Venom and Carnage have a beef with each other. Venom hates himself for spawning Carnage and Carnage loves to kill. Carnage and spiderman don't have a beef. They have had numerous fights but Venom has always been there. Without Venom, there's no Carnage. And if there were a Carnage, it would probably be done very poorly because 1. There'd be no Venom and 2. He wouldn't be the same character because Carnage goes on killing sprees, he's a mass murderer, how the hell could they put that in a Spiderman film.

    It's also highly unlikely he'll be in it because of Mr. Dick Head, otherwise known as Sam Raimi. He hates, sorry, HATES Venom. Reasons: Lack of humanity, doesn't like the idea of symbiotes (apparently), doesn't like Venom's character in general. So, if Raimi stays as director, I'd put every single penny I own on there being no Carnage what so ever. Ever. In a Spiderman film. a live action film for that matter. For Carnage to be in a Spiderman film, they'd have to change him SO much, and therefore wouldn't be Carnage.


    And finally, question for retor_joe, where did you get this from?

    "Carnage, from the leftover symbiote in the lab of Curt Conners(Peter's Teacher), he experiments on it trying to find a regenerative product. He gets his hands on Spidermans Blood, and infuses the symbiote, Spidermans Blood, and his own blood causing the symbiote to become blood red. He stores it in his lab to keep an eye on its behaviour."
    "But really, Lizard is a shit enemy."
    If you ever read the comic book or saw the animated series, you'd have seen that he only went on rampage when he first transformed. He still has function of his brain(Duh?), seeing as his alter ego is a scientist, The Lizard had an underground haven with limited technology he had stolen to conduct new experiments. He's not too phased by spiderman, he has a different agenda(like Sandman).

    "And retro_joe, don't quite know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, not that I care, but Carnage without Venom would be shit. Carnage is Venom's enemy."
    *BARGH* Incorrect.
    Carnage is the spawn of the original Symbiote, not Venom. Thus why Carnage doesn't feel such Malice for Parker(The Symbiote remebers the qualities of the preivous host, thus why Spidermans spider-sense doesn't work with Venom).

    Venom doesn't feel "Responsible" for Carnage, as stated, he lacks humanity. The reason he hates Carnage is because he's an impure halfbreed. In the comic, he calls Carnage "halfbreed" to taunt him into a bout. (Halfbreed: Symbiote fused with Human/Spiderman DNA).

    "Carnage and spiderman don't have a beef. They have had numerous fights but Venom has always been there."
    "Whoever is an enemy of the city, is an enemy of mine."
    ~Spiderman
    So technically, Carnage is an enemy of Spidermans. Regardless of what you think, he is still technically Spidermans enemy. Thus why Spiderman originally attempts to take down black cat, because she attempts to release her father from prison.(Enemy of the City)

    Yes it's true, Venom and Spidey have worked together a couple times, most notably to take Carnage down. However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order. Only after his daughter dies Sandman becomes a true enemy of Spidermans, because he feels Spiderman interfering is what inevitably caused his daughter to die.

    So, how is a raging killing machine(Carnage) not an enemy of Spidey's? "Hrm, he's not robbing a Bank.. I'll allow it." *Shoots webs off and swings around the city* (WTF?) NO.. plz get your facts straight. It's idiotic saying he's not an enemy of Spidermans.(Sorry, but its true)

    "It's also highly unlikely he'll be in it because of Mr. Dick Head, otherwise known as Sam Raimi. He hates, sorry, HATES Venom."
    Whether or not he "likes" Symbiotes shouldn't contribute, Venom & Carnage are the two biggest names in Spiderman series(IMHO), and the public is screaming for them. Carnage in a live action film would be PIMP.

    "I'd put every single penny I own on there being no Carnage what so ever." You're going to be a very poor man...

    "And finally, question for retor_joe, where did you get this from?"
    Thats from the Storyline, fear it as its real information *Casts boogey powers*
    It's true, storyline from comic. This is why it would be wise for The Lizard to be in the Carnage movie, as Curt Conners is the one that not only creates, but lets it loose.(When he transforms into the Lizard the first time, he destroys most of his lab)

    Curtis Conners, Vietnam Veteran who had lost an arm fighting for his nation, became a scientist in hopes of helping not only his son but to regenerate his arm. Looking into various ways of being able to regenerate his arm, he first came across a Skink's regenerative capability of growing its tail back after losing it to escape an enemy. He put that research on hold when Peter First brought the Symbiote to his Lab, upon further inspection, he saw that it not only increased the feelings of the host, but also the physical capabilities.(Strength for example)

    He experimented on the symbiote to see if it would increase the regenerative rate of a Skink. Conners managed to get his hands on Spidermans blood to increase the strength of the symbiote and to hopefully increase the possible regen rate. He added his own blood to it so he could hopefully put the suit on after he had tested the Lizard DNA upon himself. Once fused, he put the symbiote(now blood red) in protective casing so it wouldn't escape.

    He then began further experimentation on the Lizard DNA project, after several days of research, he was sure it was ready for human testing, however(as usual) he didn't have a test subject, instead he injected himself with it. Seemingly successful, his arm grows back much to his delight, however the injection begins to transforms him into a giant humanoid Lizard, he then goes on rampage and destroys the lab. In his rage he destroys the casing the Red Symbiote was in, and the Lizard runs off before the symbiote could Bind with him. So it goes in search of a new host.

    So even if The Lizard was a "Shit enemy", they couldn't have Carnage without him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt.McCloud
    In the past i have memorys of the lizard slowly getting to be smart (like his human forms mind goes into lizards body) and its turns out the lizard helps spiderman, I remember that from somewhere, probably the old tv show. . .

    Scorpian could be a enemie but most likely will be lizard and carnage. . .

    I would like to see a film with a few super hero's, like spiderman needs help defeating someone who it just so happens is a x men enemie/fantastic 4/dare devil/iron etc etc.

    We need info. . .
    The Lizard does remember his scientist work, and steals technology from around the city to make his new Haven a laboratory, where he plans on making a cure.

    If we want to see Venom again, they need the Scorpion to enter the picture as he becomes the new Venom in the comics. So i'd hope they have him in 4, so we can see Venom again in 5.

    A Superhero Crossover movie would kick ass, personally i'd want to see X-Men & the Fantastic 4 take down Apocolypse or Galactus.

  2. #42
    :chuckle: Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro_joe
    "But really, Lizard is a shit enemy."
    If you ever read the comic book or saw the animated series, you'd have seen that he only went on rampage when he first transformed. He still has function of his brain(Duh?), seeing as his alter ego is a scientist, The Lizard had an underground haven with limited technology he had stolen to conduct new experiments. He's not too phased by spiderman, he has a different agenda(like Sandman).

    "And retro_joe, don't quite know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, not that I care, but Carnage without Venom would be shit. Carnage is Venom's enemy."
    *BARGH* Incorrect.
    Carnage is the spawn of the original Symbiote, not Venom. Thus why Carnage doesn't feel such Malice for Parker(The Symbiote remebers the qualities of the preivous host, thus why Spidermans spider-sense doesn't work with Venom).

    Venom doesn't feel "Responsible" for Carnage, as stated, he lacks humanity. The reason he hates Carnage is because he's an impure halfbreed. In the comic, he calls Carnage "halfbreed" to taunt him into a bout. (Halfbreed: Symbiote fused with Human/Spiderman DNA).

    "Carnage and spiderman don't have a beef. They have had numerous fights but Venom has always been there."
    "Whoever is an enemy of the city, is an enemy of mine."
    ~Spiderman
    So technically, Carnage is an enemy of Spidermans. Regardless of what you think, he is still technically Spidermans enemy. Thus why Spiderman originally attempts to take down black cat, because she attempts to release her father from prison.(Enemy of the City)

    Yes it's true, Venom and Spidey have worked together a couple times, most notably to take Carnage down. However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order. Only after his daughter dies Sandman becomes a true enemy of Spidermans, because he feels Spiderman interfering is what inevitably caused his daughter to die.

    So, how is a raging killing machine(Carnage) not an enemy of Spidey's? "Hrm, he's not robbing a Bank.. I'll allow it." *Shoots webs off and swings around the city* (WTF?) NO.. plz get your facts straight. It's idiotic saying he's not an enemy of Spidermans.(Sorry, but its true)

    "It's also highly unlikely he'll be in it because of Mr. Dick Head, otherwise known as Sam Raimi. He hates, sorry, HATES Venom."
    Whether or not he "likes" Symbiotes shouldn't contribute, Venom & Carnage are the two biggest names in Spiderman series(IMHO), and the public is screaming for them. Carnage in a live action film would be PIMP.

    "I'd put every single penny I own on there being no Carnage what so ever." You're going to be a very poor man...

    "And finally, question for retor_joe, where did you get this from?"
    Thats from the Storyline, fear it as its real information *Casts boogey powers*
    It's true, storyline from comic. This is why it would be wise for The Lizard to be in the Carnage movie, as Curt Conners is the one that not only creates, but lets it loose.(When he transforms into the Lizard the first time, he destroys most of his lab)

    Curtis Conners, Vietnam Veteran who had lost an arm fighting for his nation, became a scientist in hopes of helping not only his son but to regenerate his arm. Looking into various ways of being able to regenerate his arm, he first came across a Skink's regenerative capability of growing its tail back after losing it to escape an enemy. He put that research on hold when Peter First brought the Symbiote to his Lab, upon further inspection, he saw that it not only increased the feelings of the host, but also the physical capabilities.(Strength for example)

    He experimented on the symbiote to see if it would increase the regenerative rate of a Skink. Conners managed to get his hands on Spidermans blood to increase the strength of the symbiote and to hopefully increase the possible regen rate. He added his own blood to it so he could hopefully put the suit on after he had tested the Lizard DNA upon himself. Once fused, he put the symbiote(now blood red) in protective casing so it wouldn't escape.

    He then began further experimentation on the Lizard DNA project, after several days of research, he was sure it was ready for human testing, however(as usual) he didn't have a test subject, instead he injected himself with it. Seemingly successful, his arm grows back much to his delight, however the injection begins to transforms him into a giant humanoid Lizard, he then goes on rampage and destroys the lab. In his rage he destroys the casing the Red Symbiote was in, and the Lizard runs off before the symbiote could Bind with him. So it goes in search of a new host.

    So even if The Lizard was a "Shit enemy", they couldn't have Carnage without him.


    The Lizard does remember his scientist work, and steals technology from around the city to make his new Haven a laboratory, where he plans on making a cure.

    If we want to see Venom again, they need the Scorpion to enter the picture as he becomes the new Venom in the comics. So i'd hope they have him in 4, so we can see Venom again in 5.

    A Superhero Crossover movie would kick ass, personally i'd want to see X-Men & the Fantastic 4 take down Apocolypse or Galactus.
    well by the looks of it Galactus is gonna be in the FF series alone if he's not in 2 then he will definitly be 3.
    Can i just say that you must be the pro in debating class!!!
    Wow. And if your not in debating class get into one!
    Last edited by Hybrid; 05-09-2007 at 07:28 PM.



    thanks demonflair for the awsome sig

  3. #43
    Fully NextGen Enabled retro_joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid
    well by the looks of it Galactus is gonna be in the FF series alone if he's not in 2 then he will definitly be 3.
    Can i just say that you must be the pro in debating class!!!
    Wow. And if your not in debating class get into one!
    Sadly, i know of the Fantastic 4 - Rise of the Silver Surfer, Silver Surfer is the usher to Galactus.

    I said moreso Galactus/Apocolype because they are the strongest of the villains in both series.

  4. #44
    WiiChat Member Cadbury's Avatar
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    Ok, retro_joe, this is from wikipedia:

    "When the symbiote returned and bonded with Eddie to form the entity known as Venom, the supervillain unwittingly left behind a spawn which merged itself into Kasady's bloodstream. One night, Kasady murdered a guard and escaped prison, beginning a series of gruesome and seemingly random murders. At the scene of each crime, he'd write "Carnage Rules" on the walls with his own blood. He was found by Spider-Man, though the hero proved to be no match for the Venom spawn. In desperation, Spider-Man made what would be the first of many truces with Venom to fight Carnage."

    You've got that story-line from the Ultimate Spider-man series, which the film s DON'T follow. So YOU get YOUR facts right, Mr. Great Debater.

    Firstly, the Lizard being a shit enemy, ok that's just a clash of opinions, so there isn't a right answer but if they brought out Spider-man 4 with the enemy as the Lizard I'd be very disappointed.

    "And retro_joe, don't quite know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, not that I care, but Carnage without Venom would be shit. Carnage is Venom's enemy."
    *BARGH* Incorrect.
    Carnage is the spawn of the original Symbiote, not Venom. Thus why Carnage doesn't feel such Malice for Parker(The Symbiote remebers the qualities of the preivous host, thus why Spidermans spider-sense doesn't work with Venom).

    Venom doesn't feel "Responsible" for Carnage, as stated, he lacks humanity. The reason he hates Carnage is because he's an impure halfbreed. In the comic, he calls Carnage "halfbreed" to taunt him into a bout. (Halfbreed: Symbiote fused with Human/Spiderman DNA).


    You're wrong, read "Venom vs Carnage" and then we'll talk. Although there probably won't be a need to as you would have realised that you're wrong and look stupid. Actually I'll spare you the time of reading it, here's a few quotes from Venom in "Venom vs Carnage":

    Oh, here's a good one - "I'm your father..."
    This one is also good - "Carnage, I've loathed you like a son"
    This is a VERY good one - "Carnage, my son..."

    That enough evdince for you?

    However, Sandman wasn't really an "Enemy of Spidermans", he only Robbed Banks(Enemy of the City), but Spiderman stopped him to keep the order.

    Wrong. He went after him because he killed Uncle Ben.

    As far as the rest of what you said goes, as I said earlier, that's the Ultimate series not the proper one. And don't try and say the films do follow the Ultimate series because they don't. Spider-man is a teenager in the Ultimate series, that proves it right there, doesn't it?

    And regarding the Sam Raimi and the film things, it should contribute, do you know why? BECAUSE HE'S THE ****ING DIRECTOR YOU BELL END! Do you not understand? What Raimi says, goes. It took Avi Arad and the Topher Grace's performance to win him over. Raimi does have a say, a HUGE say in fact and if he says Carnage is not going to be in his film, it's not going to happen. HE said this with Venom, but was won over. And it's going to take a lot more than Avi's word and good actor to get Raimi to put Carnage in his film. And what you said about Venom and Carnage being the best in the Spider-man world, I agree 100% there are by far the best two characters, in my opinion. We seem to agree there. But don't you see what he did with Venom in Spider-man 3? They completely butchered him. Venom in the film was shit. I looked forward to seeing Venom just as much as anyone else did, but I was disappointed by his appearance. And you say Carnage would "PIMP", but going on what Carnage is, everything he represents, what they did with Venom and Sam Raimi's attitude towards Venom and symbiotes... do you REALLY think that a Carnage appearance would be "PIMP"? Think about it.

    I look forward to your response.
    Mario Strikers Charged

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  5. #45
    shiftfallout.com Shiftfallout's Avatar
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    ^ wikipedia is not a valid source of information. Its user generated and often found to be wrong. Just a heads up.

  6. #46
    I GOT A JAR OF DIRT. surfinrach90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadbury
    And regarding the Sam Raimi and the film things, it should contribute, do you know why? BECAUSE HE'S THE ****ING DIRECTOR YOU BELL END! Do you not understand? What Raimi says, goes. It took Avi Arad and the Topher Grace's performance to win him over. Raimi does have a say, a HUGE say in fact and if he says Carnage is not going to be in his film, it's not going to happen. HE said this with Venom, but was won over. And it's going to take a lot more than Avi's word and good actor to get Raimi to put Carnage in his film.
    Okay well I don't know enough about the whole original and marvel ultimate stories to debate on everything else you've said, so I wont.

    But, as for this quoted bit above, obviously Sam Raimi has a very big say in it as he's the director, but he's got to follow the publics demand.

    Don't forget that it's not only his decision, there's also all the other people working on the films, the story writers, co-producers and Marvel keeps a close eye on things don't they etc, etc..

    And heck, there's even been talks about whether or not he's even going to direct the next one lol =]

  7. #47
    Gran Turismo Wii_BrEnDo2007's Avatar
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    1234-1234-1234-1234
    im finally gonna see spidey 3 at teh wiikend XD
    PS3 now, sorry Wii. You gather dust.

  8. #48
    I GOT A JAR OF DIRT. surfinrach90's Avatar
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    Awesome, hope this thread hasn't ruined it too much for ya if you're read it lol..

  9. #49
    Gran Turismo Wii_BrEnDo2007's Avatar
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    i didnt and by as u said that thats a good thing anyways im gonna go get some shut eye
    PS3 now, sorry Wii. You gather dust.

  10. #50
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    i've only ever seen the TV series (bear that in mind ^^)

    but... what about the mutation saga (i.e. where spider man turns into a 'real' spider of sorts) and that vampire guy (the one with those blood suckers on his hand)?

    when would those be brought into the movie series?

    what about mysterio and/or chameleon guy too? ^^

    and the black cat woman thingy (but i think she was in the kingpin saga =S)

    carnage and lizard man are a pretty safe bet, and is a good idea... but would they base it on the underground lizard kingdom... or the carnage saga (where carnage and venom steal everybody souls to bring (something which i can't remember) back to life)

    knowing the film industry they'll just throw something together at the last moment

    NB: * I didn't think spider man 3 was all that good (playing HoD4 in the cinema arcade was better)... it was very 'sequel'... best part of the film was in the bell tower when symbote jumped off spideys body for a second or so ^^ *
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