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  1. #61
    Hoo-ah! I_Dont_Know859's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    funny how you act like i should be punished for running my mouth, yet the administration who has thousands dead under their whim everyday in a war based on a lie that they have admitted shouldnt be punished. that is the kind of logic that runs this country isnt it?
    do you have any facts to prove its based on a lie because thats a pretty serious claim to make without proper evidence. not trying to insult you, just if you have any evidence i would be interested in looking at it. Other than that feel free to use your freedom of speech and type the b/s you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    funny how people(like you) can be lied to, told they were lied to, then still support the lie and the idiocy behind it. you say are defending ourselves from arabs. are we? last time i checked every arab, including iraq and iran, was not at fault for 9/11. it was a small group of them. that is like acting like every american is in a gang.
    We are not fighting an army of a country but an organzation. This organization (the main target) are supported by terrorst sponsoring-states *cough iran cough*. We do you suppose we do? Not do anything after 9/11 and let the organzation wait safetly in their terrorist sponsoring states. I serriouly doubt Iran would think twice about turning them over to us. The even publically announced they're supporting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    furthermore, as far as 911 goes, which this is all based off of, it happened because of a lax or failure of american intel. if people would have listened to warnings that it was going to happen, we could have stopped it right? isnt that our job as you said to protect ourselves? i, and a lot of others, think they LET it happen, just so people would support their madness that has ensued ever since. funny how almost right after we decided to attack iraq based on a lie isnt it? sounds to me like it was a door for them to do what they want, however im sure you dont see that. so because of our failure of intel, we then go kill people who had nothing to do with it. isnt that just lovely....
    If you really think that...wow....just wow. That of course is all opinion so believe that if you want but thats just b/s to me, just another crazy liberal conspiracy theroy.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    i can tell just by two responses from you, that you are probably a christian and obviously a bush supporter, but i could be wrong. nonetheless, no matter what you support, if you cant see the madness in all of this, then clearly you dont see the forest for the trees per se. you should be glad they did not accept you to fight.
    I agree there is madness, just like in every war.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    maybe once you wise up, you will look back and be glad you didnt risk your life for a lie and to protect something we never lost.
    Why because the Taliban started a war with us and he's not afraid to risk his own life not for the the corrupt govt but our freedoms, securities, friends, family and american homeland. It's one thing to be anti-bush and not believe in this war but that would you said is an insult not to Bush, but the men and women in the military roughing it up and living in a constant state of fear wondering if this is the day some suicide bomber will blow me up or some sniper will get lucky and blow my brains out while your still here using ur freedom of speech to insult them. Thats disgusting. I'm proud to say in a year after i get my bachelors degree i'm joining the military myself to do my time serving my country that i'm proud of. Your wrong to say something we never lost because about 3,000 innocent americans going about their daily lives lost something on 9/11. Please tell me you won't deny that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    there are americans that are terrorists. terrorism will always exist inside and outside of this country.
    yeah its called domestic terrorism. the patriot act, FBI, Secret Service, etc work to deal with them. Terrorsit (some belonging to al queada) cells are a problem and have been uncovered and destroyed. Not telling how many are really out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    no war, no matter how big will ever stop it. in fact, the kind of idiocy we have pulled will surely cause more of it.
    I agree it will never stop. But i dont believe in doing nothing and just receiving blow after blow. I believe in doing what we can to fight it and just leaving it alone is pure idiocy because like you said is just isn't going to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    they attacked us because they want us out of israel. theyre pissed because we support the jews and protect the jews and not them. we have no business in the middle east period, jews or not. we take oil from them but wont help them in wars. yet we help the jews only because they run wallstreet and because of their beliefs. that is two sided garbage. all they want is for us to treat them equally. so it is our governments fault that they attacked us. they should have never pulled it off with all the intel we had on it.
    Al Queda attacked us after we beat the russians with Bin Laden, who said they were the weakest link, then he turned his attention to the US because he sees the Amercian culture and freedoms as a threat and has even claimed that if we accept his islamic extremeists culture Al Queda would end its war with us, but thats never going to happen. its not just the govt fault that attacked us, they are a part of it however, its our amer culture and diversity that they depise according to Bin Laden himself. But you said above there was a failure in intel??? Yes, the Jews, because they run wallstreet...of course...and there beliefs, we know how much the govt values that.


    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    im sure i typed all this for nothing. some people never see the truth even if it is huge, in front of their face, 600 feet tall, with neon lights......
    Yeah some people really never see the truth...even if it is huge, in front of their face, 600 feet tall, with neon lights...
    Last edited by I_Dont_Know859; 04-03-2007 at 12:31 AM.
    For he is God's servant to do thee good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the servant of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Romans 13:4

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  3. #62
    \/\/ii'd Out For Life dedpoet777's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^that is what is wrong with our country^^^^^^^^^


    I_dont_know_859
    its that type of "god is behind our war of madness, death, and destruction" attitude that has already had a massive death toll through time, which still tallies itself to this day.

    i remember you from the "christians" thread and i should have known someone(more than likely you) would turn this thread into a jesus fest. christians irritate the piss out of me. and to think, i used to be one.

    if there is one thing, and one thing only i am ashamed of, it is that i was ever so blind to think christianity, or the bible is the way to any salvation.

    please stop telling us why god supports this war, using quotes from ancient texts that are 2,000 years old and do not apply here. we all know about jesus here dude, we live in america. there are as many churches as there are restaurants here.

    take your own advice and keep it on the jesus threads please. were already talking about politics, isnt that enough?

    as far as you quoting an analyzing everything i said, you re the one that needs to prove it wasnt a lie dude not me. since youre so "up on the times" why dont you go to yahoo and in the search box type "white house admits iraq" and then you should so some reading. what youll find is the white house all but admitting they fabricated the whole iraq thing. they say everything but "we told a lie" instead they use the phrase "we used improper or false intelligence"
    what that means is "we lied and dont want to tell you" and it is an admission of sorts. who bombs a country and kills hundreds of thousands of people and doesnt make sure the intel is good first? no one, not even bush and his idiot goons. bush started trying to find some reason to go into iraq as soon as he stepped his lazy, good for nothing, golf playing, vacationing, terrorist ass into office. you talk so much about terrorists, yet bush has caused more terror than 100 bin ladens and more death too.

    anyone, after all of this nonsense, who supports bush is naive, ignorant, stubborn, close minded(as in christian), blind, and a lot of other words that mean similar things. most people voted for him because he is a christian. that is what is so sad. i highly doubt there are as many christians, let alone non christians who supports him at this point. clearly since there is talk of impeachment, he has done, or is doing something wrong.

    between all the stupidity here, all the ignorant religion, i hate this country more and more everyday. i really would like to leave this place, unfortunately my great government has made sure to PISS OFF every frigging country known to man. i remember the days when america was idolized by everyone. now thanks to the idiots you support, and millions like you, we are hated.

    oh and if you think any government, let alone this one, tells its people the whole truth about anything, then you need to get up from the computer, run as fast as you can into the wall face first, in hopes that will wake you up from the dreams you apparently live in daily.

    your sig says "jesus saves". i have to ask, since i know he doesnt save souls, does he save his boogers?
    Last edited by dedpoet777; 04-03-2007 at 01:18 AM.
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  4. #63
    Banned AussieWii's Avatar
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    we are hated
    yes, you are, I dont however hate those of you that are not ignorant of what your country is personally responsible for, many of the freedoms that i once enjoyed as a teen my own kids wont get to enjoy.

    Deadpoet you would have to be the first American that i have witnessed any sort of sense on this topic from, thats not to say there are not more of you.

    so for having the guts to stand up and go public on what you, I and everyone else knows in their heart is the major cause of all this

    America

    I applaud you

    having said all that crashing an aeroplane into a building is completely inappropriate and can never be justified as being nessasary, nor can blowing oneself up in a crowd of innocent people, the rag heads that do these things are a bunch of cowards and snakes, but America is no better when they fire a bomb from 100 miles away. (Killing is Killing)

    oh i could go on and on and on forever about this, but theres nothing i can do to change it, so im just gonna continue to chill in a part of the world that is safe and tolerent

  5. #64
    Banned ottoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Dont_Know859
    hey if your going to bring this up you have to tell the whole story. a lot of you seem to never do that. Yes the US, Saudi Rabia, and Pakistan supported Bin Laden during the war with Russia but that was before Al Queda was even created. It was created after the victory over the Russians. Victory for all of us and end of financing bin laden. He then creates the terrorist group Al Queda and declared war on the US. Sorry but if the US govt had psychic powers we never would have done it in the first place. He is indeed a very rich Saudi, i heard his family has disowned him. I love the way people like you say we were supporting them without giving all the facts.



    Well thats funny because i did but i dont see the point of arguing over this because we may never know now. I would hardly call Iraq a respective country while under Saddams rule.



    I am very aware of the Patriot Act and it is only during times of war wear it is necessary to give up some of your freedoms in exchange for better securtiy. Do you not realize that the are sleeping cells all over the US that have been detected thanks to the Patriot Act. I agree that they have messed up also but it has done more good than harm. The cells are a very dangerous weapon to attack the US unexpectedly within.



    Actually both would be necessary. It also depends on the citizens willingness to learn.



    Pretend to have freedoms? Even with the Patriot Act being temporary active, you still have many freedoms that the majority of countries can't even compete with. Many people in the US take their freedoms for granted. Like I said, at times of war its necessary to give up some freedom for security, you can whine about it all day i could care less, i'm perfectly fine with it.




    No, I can pretty much tell how dangerous everything is when the enemy strikes us. A terrorists main goal is to create a climate of fear so its to be expected.



    well read the good book again, you will learn something new every time i guarantee. A Christian pacifism, a wonderful concept but unfortunately will never happen until armageddon is over.

    In Romans 12:18-21 the New Testament commands us to live peaceably with all people and not to seek vengeance from those who do us wrong. This includes violence or even office gossip. God is supposed to handle all revenge on judgment day, stated in Romans 12:19.
    However Paul told Christians not to seek revenge, but also that to give the state the power to "carry the sword" against evildoers, Romans 13:4. An interested not i would also like to add is that Jesus never commanded those in the military - even though these soldiers were serving a pagan Roman Empire - to walk away from such service, though he was quite willing to cmmand prostitutes to abandon their unseemingly employments.

    Pacifism is problematic because it is utopian. The Bible does tell us the ways of peace and that the ultimate vision of peace is that of of a restored creation in which there is no more war, Isa 2:4. The Bible also says that this shalom comes when all Jesus' enemies are subdued but tells us that this day is not yet here, Heb 2:8. Also take note that Rev. 12 mentions Jessus triumphing over the occupying forces through a violent invasion. Matt 10:34 says Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but a sword. In the meantime, govt mus some times, though only carefully and as a last resort, go to war in order to protect the innocent and to restrain evil. Pacifists are right to tell us that war is always tragic and that we should work for peace. They are wrong to think that such peace can come by avoiding conflict. Passivity in the face of Hitler meant a slaugherfest in Europe and other parts of the world.

    Militarism, the people who are always saying nuke 'em fall in this category, is also a utopian at its core. I'm sure we will agree military action is sometimes necessary and also a tradegy. Christians feel this way to, even if it comes out with the best outcome. Christains also recognize that a concept of "perpetual war for perpetual peace" is an illusion. Jesus rebuked Peter for believing the answer to Jesus' arrest was the declaration of a violent counter-action, Matt. 26:52. There will be a "war to end all wars," but it will be fought at Armageddon, not planned by the Pentagon.

    Even for christians, the questions of war and peace are never easy. This is why Christians like me avoid both pacifism and militarism. We believe in the concept of a "just war" which means killing is never good but is sometimes best. This concept limits such action to duly constitued govts and strictly contains the bounds of such warfare. The intentional killing of innocent non-combatants is, for instance, wrong and outside the parameters of just war like the Taliban is doing. In fact they even use women and children as human shields making it difficult for troops, not just US, to fight in normal warfare. Collateral damage most also be taken into account, but kept to a minimum as much as possible.

    There are times when the alternative to war is clearly more bloodshed, more violence. Think about what would have happened around the world if the US had taken no action after 9/11. These are complicated times and Christians may disagree about whether military action is biblically warranted, even as we remember to pray for our leaders to make wise decisions.

    War is sometimes necessary, and Christians should be willing to support, fight, and die for our country in those times. We just shouldn't pretend a U.N. enforced peace can end bloodshed and neither should we cheer the violence of war as if it were a video game

    I posted this not for a religious debate but to reply to captains statement about a christains standpoint of war. Please dont turn this thread into a religious debate because there are plenty of other threads for that in the louge already. Thanks.

    You spoke of protecting the Innocent there....may i point out that over 650k INNOCENT civilian Iraqis are now dead? As well as thousands of INNOCENT Afghans, and lets not forget the American raid on that Pakistani Village, where Small bombs and Heavy weapons were used to air raid this small village. It was apparently a hiding place for terrorists, however (if my memory serves me correctly) Around 50 INNOCENT were killed, and many more injured. However no terrorists were harmed. Ironic no?

    Yes you are right war is sometimes necessary, however last time i checked, stealing oil, money and Muslim lives were not part of the word "War".

    What America have done is betray the very foundations they were built upon. Wasn’t it all about fairness and all that? Feel free to hide behind the Bibles words in order to comfort yourself, at the end of the day, we both know how God feels about what America have done, And it is of course a FACT, that the Bible is scientifically and Logically incorrect, if you actually think about what it is saying to you about the earth. The Qur'an however is Logically and Scientifically correct in every aspect, it even tells of events that weren’t even dreamt about in the time the Qur'an was written (such as fingerprints as being used for identity)

    Staying on subject, Yes America did support the taliban, and they also supported Saddam, while he was gassing people and killing others. How do you think he got the gas and weapons to do it all with? And all the planning and such? America, the country of justice! the ones who love to create wars to benifit themselves.

    Well all i can say is this. Having an opinion is great, however if you dont read and try to understand others opinions, (such as me or someone else with another opinion) then you will always have doubts. If you can look at other opinions and beliefs, and STILL stand by your own opinions, then your opinion and belief get much, much stronger. Remember that.

  6. #65
    Hoo-ah! I_Dont_Know859's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedpoet777
    ^^^^^^that is what is wrong with our country^^^^^^^^^


    I_dont_know_859
    its that type of "god is behind our war of madness, death, and destruction" attitude that has already had a massive death toll through time, which still tallies itself to this day.

    i remember you from the "christians" thread and i should have known someone(more than likely you) would turn this thread into a jesus fest. christians irritate the piss out of me. and to think, i used to be one.

    if there is one thing, and one thing only i am ashamed of, it is that i was ever so blind to think christianity, or the bible is the way to any salvation.

    please stop telling us why god supports this war, using quotes from ancient texts that are 2,000 years old and do not apply here. we all know about jesus here dude, we live in america. there are as many churches as there are restaurants here.

    take your own advice and keep it on the jesus threads please. were already talking about politics, isnt that enough?

    as far as you quoting an analyzing everything i said, you re the one that needs to prove it wasnt a lie dude not me. since youre so "up on the times" why dont you go to yahoo and in the search box type "white house admits iraq" and then you should so some reading. what youll find is the white house all but admitting they fabricated the whole iraq thing. they say everything but "we told a lie" instead they use the phrase "we used improper or false intelligence"
    what that means is "we lied and dont want to tell you" and it is an admission of sorts. who bombs a country and kills hundreds of thousands of people and doesnt make sure the intel is good first? no one, not even bush and his idiot goons. bush started trying to find some reason to go into iraq as soon as he stepped his lazy, good for nothing, golf playing, vacationing, terrorist ass into office. you talk so much about terrorists, yet bush has caused more terror than 100 bin ladens and more death too.

    anyone, after all of this nonsense, who supports bush is naive, ignorant, stubborn, close minded(as in christian), blind, and a lot of other words that mean similar things. most people voted for him because he is a christian. that is what is so sad. i highly doubt there are as many christians, let alone non christians who supports him at this point. clearly since there is talk of impeachment, he has done, or is doing something wrong.

    between all the stupidity here, all the ignorant religion, i hate this country more and more everyday. i really would like to leave this place, unfortunately my great government has made sure to PISS OFF every frigging country known to man. i remember the days when america was idolized by everyone. now thanks to the idiots you support, and millions like you, we are hated.

    oh and if you think any government, let alone this one, tells its people the whole truth about anything, then you need to get up from the computer, run as fast as you can into the wall face first, in hopes that will wake you up from the dreams you apparently live in daily.

    your sig says "jesus saves". i have to ask, since i know he doesnt save souls, does he save his boogers?
    hey i dont mind keeping the christian talk in the christian thread but captainff was the one to bring up and that was a reply to him. I even posted at the bottom. I posted this not for a religious debate but to reply to captains statement about a christains standpoint of war. Please dont turn this thread into a religious debate because there are plenty of other threads for that in the louge already. Thanks. Can't get much clearer than that. Unlike you, Christianity is something I am grateful and proud of. If someone brings out a question about it and i reply that would be the end of it. Its not a debate of whether you believe in christianity or not, i was just givine captainff my christian perspective and should be able to do that without people like you whining about turning it into some Jesus-fest. You should take your advice also and save the religious bashing for another thread. Hypocrite.

    Quote Originally Posted by ottoman
    And it is of course a FACT, that the Bible is scientifically and Logically incorrect, if you actually think about what it is saying to you about the earth. The Qur'an however is Logically and Scientifically correct in every aspect, it even tells of events that weren’t even dreamt about in the time the Qur'an was written (such as fingerprints as being used for identity)
    Sigh i could say the exact opposite and the bible is clear about that so you apparently don't have your facts straight again and don't get me started on the Qur'an but save it for the christian thread or something if you wanna get into a debate about this okay.
    Last edited by I_Dont_Know859; 04-03-2007 at 05:19 AM.
    For he is God's servant to do thee good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the servant of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Romans 13:4

  7. #66
    Banned ottoman's Avatar
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    Id be happy to hear the your opinions on the Qur'an. Constructive opinions of course.

  8. #67
    WiiChat Member StockTheWii's Avatar
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    U have to be retarded to think after the problems in afganistan and iraq that bush would start another unpopular war a war on 3 fronts i dont think so.Thats one way hitler lost to many fights at once just my oppion plz dont flame

    Dont F@ck with spiderman

  9. #68
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    Bush won't start another war I bet by the end of 2008 were out of Iraq and Afganistan Our congress is pushing bills through to make that so. The only way we attack Iran is if they attack first and it would have to be a big attack like drop a massive bomb besides that the UN is getting fed up with Iran so I really don't think we have anything to worry about also not to flame but Bush and Hitler can't even be compared
    Wiiman54

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    Many of you have probably seen most of these, but it seems that everyone that is arguing here would enjoy watching these. They are long, but well worth the watch. They are all very thought provoking. If you like documentaries, you should watch all of these.

    The Fog of War - Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara
    -I believe this is the most powerful film ever made. It is by Errol Morris, who makes great movies. I think that every American citizen should watch this movie. More importantly, I think that very American politician and president (GW in particular) should watch this. Although it focuses on WWII, Vietnam, and other historical events, it can be applied to the current war, and the pending situation with Iran.

    The Power of Nightmares
    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3
    -This is a BBC documentary from 2004. It shows the relationship between American neoconservatives and radical Islamists. It also shows how false some of the things we believe can be. This will really get you thinking.

    America: Freedom to Fascism
    -This is about the IRS and Federal Reserve. He asks weather or not Americans really need to pay income tax. It touches on the corruption of government by taxes, the patriot act, international relations, and more. Not necessarily directly related to this argument, but addresses the issue of loss of freedom of the American people. There are some very strong arguments in this movie.

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