Abortion: Right or Wrong?

[Brawny]

How do you figure the holocaust was evolution related?

And how does science belittle our accomplishments and trivialize everything?

Of course not, I don't remember saying all crimes were in the name of God or were related to religion.



Based on how they've evolved, I get that, but how so for Science belittling our accomplishments?

The Holocaust had nothing to do with evolution. It was about a bunch of anti-semites abusing and misapplying a good theory to justify their warped views about their so called "master race".

And why is relying on science a bad thing? I don't see it as trivial or belittling. On the contrary, humanity would be where it is today without science.

My comments really have to be taken alongside what wiipsycho is arguing.

That we are evolved from animals, so we are animals, and thus we should just do away with morality all together. Thinking in this manner is what belittles everything we've accomplished above even the smartest chimpanzee.

And Kyle, I didn't say the belief in evolution caused the holocaust (I do follow it, myself afterall), the holocaust used it, as you said.

I'm a scientician, of course I see the goodness of it. I need my engineers quote back...

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[Squall7]

My comments really have to be taken alongside what wiipsycho is arguing.

That we are evolved from animals, so we are animals, and thus we should just do away with morality all together.

That isn't atheism. That's nihilism. Atheism doesn't say that we should do away with laws and such, they help to structure society (when done properly).

Thinking in this manner is what belittles everything we've accomplished above even the smartest chimpanzee.

How so? Morality isn't the only difference we have with animals. There's a lot of intellectual thought that is valuable too, including science.

And Kyle, I didn't say the belief in evolution caused the holocaust (I do follow it, myself afterall), the holocaust used it, as you said.

Evolution is natural. Eugenics is articificial.

I'm a scientician, of course I see the goodness of it. I need my engineers quote back...

Good to see people who don't try to call science a hoax. Really annoys me when people try to say stuff like the Peppered Moth stuff was faked, that Darwin confessed to evolution being bogus on his death bed and or taking Darwin out of context with him saying it's hard to believe the eye could understand (a blatant deception as straight afterwards, he noted that it's completely possible and plausable and went on to say how exactly).

[Syntax]

Just because humans kill eachother means every instance of it is somehow justified? It looks as if you're trying to fight for the fact that humanity as a whole isn't civilised at all.

The fact that we're debating on computers, over the internet, using written words instead of stabbing you in the face pretty much proves that wrong.

I hope you're not as crazy as above quotee who doesn't mind if I murder you.

Did I ever say every instance of murder was justified? No, I don't think so. I also never mentioned that humanity as a whole isn't civilized. Honestly, if putting words into my mouth is the best argument you can come up with, that's just low.

My comment regarding murder as an obsession was directed to the issue of psychopaths who find the idea of killing someone to be nothing more than a game, or pleasure to them.

[Brawny]

Did I ever say every instance of murder was justified? No, I don't think so. I also never mentioned that humanity as a whole isn't civilized. Honestly, if putting words into my mouth is the best argument you can come up with, that's just low.

My comment regarding murder as an obsession was directed to the issue of psychopaths who find the idea of killing someone to be nothing more than a game, or pleasure to them.

Reading your comment, which was in response to one of Sixty's, it looks as if you're trying to collaborate on wiipsycho's stuff.

That isn't atheism. That's nihilism. Atheism doesn't say that we should do away with laws and such, they help to structure society

I wouldn't even say he's nihilist. Mostly crazy.

Evolution is natural. Eugenics is articificial.

But why not do it?

Believe me, I've spent much longer realigning my religion to science than the other way around.

[Squall7]

But why not do it?

Well, for a start, breeding in general is better when there is a wider range of genetic material to choose from. Take for example incest, the likelyhood of negative genetic traits being passed on is higher than usual. That and the fact that one of society's codes of behaviour stippulates that every person should have an equal right to life, and choice of mating partner (among other social liberties). If however, there were a group of people that didn't want to breed with other peoples, they would still be allowed to do that, but the consequences would be on them.

Besides, aren't different traits better suited to different settings? Such as melanin, which is the pigment in human skin, which provides resistance to certain frequencies of light (I'd say UV, but I'm sure Napalmbrain will correct me), favourable in sunnier countries. On the other hand, having a lower metabolism is better in colder countries (for which fat insulates the body). So how would one really breed the 'superior' human for everywhere?

Believe me, I've spent much longer realigning my religion to science than the other way around.

Fair enough.

[Brawny]

Well, for a start, breeding in general is better when there is a wider range of genetic material to choose from. Take for example incest, the likelyhood of negative genetic traits being passed on is higher than usual. That and the fact that one of society's codes of behaviour stippulates that every person should have an equal right to life, and choice of mating partner (among other social liberties). If however, there were a group of people that didn't want to breed with other peoples, they would still be allowed to do that, but the consequences would be on them.

Besides, aren't different traits better suited to different settings? Such as melanin, which is the pigment in human skin, which provides resistance to certain frequencies of light (I'd say UV, but I'm sure Napalmbrain will correct me), favourable in sunnier countries. On the other hand, having a lower metabolism is better in colder countries (for which fat insulates the body). So how would one really breed the 'superior' human for everywhere?


Fair enough.

Nah, I don't mean physical traits. Why not weed out the universal weaknesses?

Anyone with a history of heart disease, or cancer, or anyone mentally retarded. They should all just be aborted.

That and the fact that one of society's codes of behaviour

And where does this "code" come from? We're all just animals, right?

[Sovieto]

I'd rather be not born than born to some unfit 16 year old who gives me a hard life because they weren't prepared. Ruining my mother and I's life.

The other main alternative is giving the baby away when it is born, how much better is that?

Babies change lives, everyone isn't prepared for that, and it shouldn't be other people's snotty beliefs dictating how that person's life turns out.

[Napalmbrain]

(I'd say UV, but I'm sure Napalmbrain will correct me)

Normally I'd love to, but I don't know if you're right or wrong about that bit (biology isn't my forté).

And where does this "code" come from? We're all just animals, right?

Just because we're animals, doesn't mean we don't need codes of behaviour and rules. Take chimps, or dolphins, or even ants- they are very social animals with clear hierachies and behaviour patterns.

[Brawny]

The other main alternative is giving the baby away when it is born, how much better is that?

Uhm...I quite like having been adopted rather than killed. I hardly believe you on that "I'd rather be dead" thing. Opinions are heavily based on personal experience, after all.

I'd very much like to find my mother and thank her for not aborting.

Only need to make loads of money, find a person based on a name only, oh, and learn Korean.

[Boethiah]

Uhm...I quite like having been adopted rather than killed. I hardly believe you on that "I'd rather be dead" thing. Opinions are heavily based on personal experience, after all.

I'd very much like to find my mother and thank her for not aborting.

Only need to make loads of money, find a person based on a name only, oh, and learn Korean.

I don't understand why a woman should have to go through nine months of pregnancy, then go through the pain of child birth, just to give the child away. A fetus is a fetus. It is not a child. It will not care if it is dead, because it cannot think about such things.

Abortion should be an option. What you're suggesting is because you turned out all right, so every other child will be in your circumstances. This is untrue.


Why does religion try to push it's beliefs on everyone else?