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  1. #1
    A li'l bit different Squall7's Avatar
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    NHS and healthcare in general



    There's a fairly large debate in the UK atm about the NHS. I think the majority opinion here is that it is a good thing, whereas many in America think it's the first step to socialism which they also think is near communism.

    Where do you stand? (include where abouts in the world you live).


    I'm from the UK.

    I'm personally grateful for the NHS, as when I was a baby, I had meningitis. My parents have struggled throughout their entire lives to get by, and would not have been able to repay costs if it were for private medical care (something overlooked in the argument in general - we have a choice, and the NHS is merely the safety net to make sure people don't go without).


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  2. #2
    Bringer of meaty goodness DBloke's Avatar
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    Its free and a rarely use it.
    But since its free its good for people that get sick so KEEP IT FREE!!


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Napalmbrain's Avatar
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    I'm torn between my economically-libertarian tendencies and my belief that health care is a basic right. Ultimately, I am in favour of the NHS, but not in its current bloated state where there's too many pen-pushers and the money is going to the wrong places.

    P.S.: Whoever made that video- stop zooming in and out.



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    @ROB64 - The longer you spend on this forum, the more you realise that Napalmbrain knows a lot about everything.


  4. #4
    A li'l bit different Squall7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I'm torn between my economically-libertarian tendencies and my belief that health care is a basic right. Ultimately, I am in favour of the NHS, but not in its current bloated state where there's too many pen-pushers and the money is going to the wrong places.

    P.S.: Whoever made that video- stop zooming in and out.
    I agree. If there's something wrong with the NHS, it isn't its basic principle, it's the fact that it is mismanaged and misused.


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  5. #5
    Proud Protestant navarre's Avatar
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    We have a world class health service. It isn't perfect, but then which system is? I plan to study medicine at uni and then work for the NHS (GP salaries of £100,000? You're on.)

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  6. #6
    slightly amused captainff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squall7 View Post
    I agree. If there's something wrong with the NHS, it isn't its basic principle, it's the fact that it is mismanaged and misused.
    I think for me what started out as a basic, emergency, free at point of use (but not free .. .. .. it costs billions!) service has mutated into something entirely different. Apparently, after the Chinese Red Army and the Indian national railway it is the 3rd largest employer in the world

    I think that the NHS should be there to only for putting people back together when they are broken. The idea of getting plastic surgery on the NHS because your nose makes you emotionally distressed is not why it was created. IVF, tummy tucks, gastric bands .. .. .. all unnecessary.

    I also think the NHS should not be spending our money to tell us how to live our lives. Recently Andy Burnham announced that GPs would be encouraged to prescribe lifestyle changes to their patients with a 6 month check up to make sure they've followed their prescription. I would tell my GP to fuck off if he did that to me.

    That heavily edited video is designed to diminish Dan Hannan who, when you listen to everything that he has to say, has a real point. Talking about cancer survival rates .. .. .. in the UK 25% of people die from prostate cancer 5 years after diagnosis but in the US NO-ONE dies within 5 years. In fact in the UK we have one of the worst cancer survival rates in Europe. We spend so much money on the NHS that we should have the best survival rates.

    A couple of years ago I had an awkward break in my ankle. The first time I visited A&E I was told to go home and walk on it as it was a sprain .. .. .. the second time they x-rayed the injury and straight away found the problem. I was assigned a surgeon who operated 10 days later and fixed me. I think that he did a good job and I'm happy with the results, apart from the early onset arthritis that that type of injury causes . I just wonder if the NHS could be made to be better by refocussing it in on what it was designed to do rather than what it has become.

    ....................


  7. #7
    A li'l bit different Squall7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainff View Post
    I think for me what started out as a basic, emergency, free at point of use (but not free .. .. .. it costs billions!) service has mutated into something entirely different. Apparently, after the Chinese Red Army and the Indian national railway it is the 3rd largest employer in the world
    Is it necessarily a bad thing? One of the most important things in life is survival.

    I think that the NHS should be there to only for putting people back together when they are broken. The idea of getting plastic surgery on the NHS because your nose makes you emotionally distressed is not why it was created. IVF, tummy tucks, gastric bands .. .. .. all unnecessary.
    True. The NHS is becoming more abused. But that's more to do with how it's run, rather than it existing. Although I can see the point of some of those things, if it is that debilitating, but often it's not the case.

    I also think the NHS should not be spending our money to tell us how to live our lives. Recently Andy Burnham announced that GPs would be encouraged to prescribe lifestyle changes to their patients with a 6 month check up to make sure they've followed their prescription. I would tell my GP to fuck off if he did that to me.
    True, although I can see the other point as well. If there are people out there that won't listen to medical advice and still want treatment, how can you help someone that shows that they don't want to be helped? Although I think a lot of problems can actually stem from other sources, and I think those need to be addressed as well.

    That heavily edited video is designed to diminish Dan Hannan who, when you listen to everything that he has to say, has a real point. Talking about cancer survival rates .. .. .. in the UK 25% of people die from prostate cancer 5 years after diagnosis but in the US NO-ONE dies within 5 years. In fact in the UK we have one of the worst cancer survival rates in Europe. We spend so much money on the NHS that we should have the best survival rates.
    I highly doubt that literally nobody dies of prostate cancer in the US within 5 years of diagnosis. There's bound to be some, or perhaps it is never diagnosed, simply because of medical bills. As for the worst cancer survival rates in Europe, it's a fair point. Perhaps we should be looking to see what we are doing wrong, and how we can fix it, rather than looking to dismantle the NHS altogether.

    A couple of years ago I had an awkward break in my ankle. The first time I visited A&E I was told to go home and walk on it as it was a sprain .. .. .. the second time they x-rayed the injury and straight away found the problem. I was assigned a surgeon who operated 10 days later and fixed me. I think that he did a good job and I'm happy with the results, apart from the early onset arthritis that that type of injury causes . I just wonder if the NHS could be made to be better by refocussing it in on what it was designed to do rather than what it has become.
    I do agree with you, although there are many factors that should be included that have not been said, such as PFIs. Those drain money from what should be public resources (such as hospitals and schools) into private companies. Likewise, the amount of money spent on binge drinking and such, and not to mention large amounts of money to administration positions of hospitals (the people who seemingly run a hospital, get paid more than they should and leave the job if they're found out to be inadequate for the position :P).

    Overall, I would definitely say that the NHS could and should be better than it is. However, I like the fact that we actually have one at all.


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  8. #8
    slightly amused captainff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squall7 View Post
    Overall, I would definitely say that the NHS could and should be better than it is. However, I like the fact that we actually have one at all.
    I agree with that statement 100%.

    Now for the difficult part .. .. .. because I get the feeling from the rest of your reply that we both view the role of the NHS differently. Yes I agree that there are way too many people employed by the NHS in administrative roles and the balance between managers and medical staff is totally wrong, but fundamentally, what do you see as the role of the NHS?

    If a smoker gets lung cancer do you think it's the role of the NHS to treat the cancer or to refuse to treat the cancer until they have quit smoking?

    Should obese people be prevented from access to treatment?

    Should the NHS be lobbying the government to tighten alcohol laws?

    Could we have a more clinically focussed, more streamlined, more efficient, more effective service that deals only with core medicine and leaves all of the 'lifestyle nannying' to someone else?

    I think the NHS should be just that .. .. .. a clinical service that provides basic healthcare, basic repairs for the people of this country. Dismantle? No. Rethink? Yes

    ....................


  9. #9
    A li'l bit different Squall7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainff View Post
    I agree with that statement 100%.

    Now for the difficult part .. .. .. because I get the feeling from the rest of your reply that we both view the role of the NHS differently. Yes I agree that there are way too many people employed by the NHS in administrative roles and the balance between managers and medical staff is totally wrong, but fundamentally, what do you see as the role of the NHS?

    If a smoker gets lung cancer do you think it's the role of the NHS to treat the cancer or to refuse to treat the cancer until they have quit smoking?

    Should obese people be prevented from access to treatment?

    Should the NHS be lobbying the government to tighten alcohol laws?

    Could we have a more clinically focussed, more streamlined, more efficient, more effective service that deals only with core medicine and leaves all of the 'lifestyle nannying' to someone else?

    I think the NHS should be just that .. .. .. a clinical service that provides basic healthcare, basic repairs for the people of this country. Dismantle? No. Rethink? Yes
    I think you misunderstood my intentions. I said that I can see it from both sides, and providing a counterpoint. I 100% agree with you that people should be covered whether they smoke, drink or heck even overdose on harder drugs.

    Although I do think it's a good idea to make well known the help that people can get to get out of those addictions, but overall shock tactics do not work.

    The warnings and help shouldn't be linked with the NHS though. Expanding the role into this area changes what the NHS is, and like you said, leads to "lifestyle nannying".


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