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  1. #11
    Psychedelic Snail Monsteroids's Avatar
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    Ugh... Nationalism and Traditionalism bothers me to no end. I have some 'pride' in my Finnish(Moomintroll is something I could sink into all day) and British(grandad was a Brit philosopher) heritage and don't generally think much of my Irish heritage. I don't let that influence my judgment of others or myself. People have told me I'm like my grandad and that does feel nice as he was a good guy imo, but what I do can be similar to his habits or mannerisms, but they can't be attributed to him. I can't get much strength from the blood relation.

    Real strength comes from self-identification, self-love, and understanding the weight of your own actions/interest/qualities and the fact that they can only be attributed to you. I can't get gratification from what someone else of 'my race' did because I simply am incapable of making the connection.

    To justify your more questionable actions as for your people, you're not thinking about how much scrutiny individuals of your race (who will not agree at all with your sentiments) will be subject to. That's yet another ugly point right there.

    I do not enjoy such tension. Playful competition? Yes. Horrible hate-derived tension? No.
    I also generally take the telly a bit too seriously when it comes to issues like that and prod at it relentlessly.

    I wonder though. This particular Greek individual seemed incredibly desensitized. As in, unnaturally so. I wonder if it can really just be attributed to his parentage. I also wonder if he had seen the real event take place he would have reacted differently. Maybe, maybe not.

    Again, Turk. I generally agree with you here.

    P.S. Also... ya kinda overdid the dashes or maybe I'm just that horrible with my native tongue. Goodbye sweet writing career I was hoping for.
    Last edited by Monsteroids; 11-15-2009 at 02:29 AM.


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  2. #12
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athronox View Post
    This is a pretty tl;dr thread, so I'm going to base a response mostly off the first few sentences and the thread title...

    No, I don't think a lot of people are taught by their parents about their nationality. Especially in America. Unless it's an Italian or Irish American or smaller minority of the like, there really isn't any "pride" to be found here, not even American pride, people never hearken back to their roots anymore, they just kind of....Exist. And it's a mediocre excuse for existence.

    Pride for one's ethnic roots is something which has been a very useful tool throughout the ages. It has allowed people to deal with hardship by seeking strength or wisdom in their people of old, it gives people a sense of worth in troubled times, it lets people feel like they are complete and have a place in the world, but most importantly, it gives people a reason to want to fight for what they believe in. As an example of what I mean, take the British. Back in the days when the French and the Brits were battling it out, many of the battles were pretty close calls, fueled only by intuition and devotion on the part of the armies. Now, if those same soldiers didn't "care" about their roots, and their place of origin, and didn't really think they were representing their people on the battle field, they wouldn't be fighting at all, most likely.

    In short, ancestry gives people a reason for existence.

    Me, I'm English. I was born in America, my parents never really told me about my ancestral roots (until I asked, and did some ancestral searching), and I've never even set foot on the isles. Yet, I still consider myself more English than American. I always have, I always will. Because, ever since I was a little boy, I've engrossed myself in the English culture. I make English food, I read English books, all my ancestors were English, etc. I just love my people and their many vast accomplishments. I wouldn't want to be anyone else.

    Now I can tell you, if I did not have that kind of solidification of my true self, if I didn't have my own little origins and niche with which to allign myself, I'd feel kind of like an empty person. I'd feel like I didn't really have a purpose and that I didn't really "fit in". However, I am one of the lucky people who is proud of their heritage, and it's a great thing to be.
    Hey thanks for your comment!

    I don't recall making it too clear that many Americans are taught about their nationalities, because it's true that many are not--many people go on with life and use "nationality" once in a while to get some meaning or fun out of it. Not to mention, many blacks in America don't know their lineage simply due to it being cut off at a certain point in time. But basically, lots of people do not care much for nationalities and when you ask them, they simply tell you "white American" (it's doesn't take long to realize that many Asians are familiar with their nationalities and are much associated thanks to parenting with their culture and heritage), because they know no better. And if they HAVE to say one, it becomes "English" because again, they know no better and "they guess their English" just because it's the language they speak and that the original western civilization starters here were the British.

    I agree with you that being "proud" of one's nationality(ies) gives people a sense of meaning to their otherwise rather meaningless lives. The pride that I was talking about really applies to people who are significantly attached to their heritages. The Colombians who tell you that the best beaches are in Colombia and refuse to believe that Colombia has the highest murder rate in the world, or the Russians who truly believe that Russia is the greatest country in the world and that everyone is under the mercy of "Mother Russia", and that they have the best military in the world, etc. They are blind followers with closed minds and a provoked bias. So, I was making the point of pride when it comes to one's heritage altogether.

    At the same time, it bothers me when my American peers don't even know or care about what nationality(ies) they are, as they are too busy tending to other "needs". When it comes to being American and ethnocentrism kicks in, many of these people are proud. Those who aren't so proud about being anything are rare and almost always lead lives that simply satisfy their desires. That is, a very routine one where religion also plays little to no role in it, and one just eats, sleeps, defecates, and takes care of their "fun factor".

    Well anyways, I found this video of one of the best and modern comedians I have ever heard, George Carlin, who is extremely realistic in most of his views. He does a GREAT job explaining this concept and makes for a grand comedian.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgmjL6z2jY[/ame]
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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  3. #13
    Proud Protestant navarre's Avatar
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    I am incredibly proud of my British heritage. I love the intriguing history. I love the stunningly beautiful countryside and coastline this country has. I love the freedoms and ideals that come with this country. I love the often mocked weather (never too hot, never too cold, no droughts or natural disaster in living memory). Britain was, is, and always shall be my home.

    That said, I am not in any way proud of my race. Being white is of no importance to me, I'd be the exact same if I were black- for example, my girlfriend is black, my mates are predominantly black, my church is around 60% black and my music taste is stereotypically black. How anyone could be proud of their skin tone is beyond my comprehension.

    Simon Cowell, what a dick.

  4. #14
    WiiChat Member Athronox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navarre View Post
    I am incredibly proud of my British heritage. I love the intriguing history. I love the stunningly beautiful countryside and coastline this country has. I love the freedoms and ideals that come with this country. I love the often mocked weather (never too hot, never too cold, no droughts or natural disaster in living memory). Britain was, is, and always shall be my home.

    That said, I am not in any way proud of my race. Being white is of no importance to me, I'd be the exact same if I were black- for example, my girlfriend is black, my mates are predominantly black, my church is around 60% black and my music taste is stereotypically black. How anyone could be proud of their skin tone is beyond my comprehension.
    And they say all Brits are racists. Oh how I do love stereotypes...

    Well said ma'friend. You are quite right. One should be proud of their origins, not of their skin tone. However, there is something you must realize. I think the reason so many people confuse pride associated with skin tone and pride associated with nationality is partially because, people from a certain area look a certain way, and now that we live in an America-dominated world (unfortunately), people who live in America and places related to America no longer associate with their ancestral origins, instead, they associate with the only thing they actually know, which is, they either have "black, brown, yellow, red, or white skin", and thus, they associate with it.

    For example, I use to know a girl who was half puerto rican, one fourth irish, and one fourth turkish. Now, genetically, she is only a fraction "white", but because she got a certain combination of genes, she came out with brown hair, blue eyes, and white skin. So, she self-identified as white, and everyone off the street knew she was white too.

    Essentially, my point is, people claim they have pride in their skin color because in most circumstances, it is the only thing they have as an identifier. People like you and me, who have strong ancestral roots and know of them, we harken back to our country, not the way we look. Those who can't however, that's their fall-back plan.

  5. #15
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navarre View Post
    I am incredibly proud of my British heritage. I love the intriguing history. I love the stunningly beautiful countryside and coastline this country has. I love the freedoms and ideals that come with this country. I love the often mocked weather (never too hot, never too cold, no droughts or natural disaster in living memory). Britain was, is, and always shall be my home.

    That said, I am not in any way proud of my race. Being white is of no importance to me, I'd be the exact same if I were black- for example, my girlfriend is black, my mates are predominantly black, my church is around 60% black and my music taste is stereotypically black. How anyone could be proud of their skin tone is beyond my comprehension.
    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."
    --Mark Twain

    Just like how George Carlin put it, one can be "happy" to be part of the "British system". If I was British and lived in the UK, I might be happy too--however, I wouldn't be picky when it comes to the history, acknowledging the many wrongs that have been done in order to expand an imperialistic empire. Most people are honestly discontent with their government, even in America, we are so split, and many people don't get what they "want", and are dissatisfied with the politics here. There's always a struggle (little do we people know in the west that we are ACTUALLY being PAMPERED thanks to exploiting peoples and their resources of poorer nations).

    What I got out of your passage was that you are happy with your standing as of right now; as of you being British, you did absolutely nothing to your ancestor's history, but more importantly, to be born into a British household, family, lifestyle, etc. (don't take it the wrong way, I'm making a point and not belitting you in any way).
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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  6. #16
    Solid Snake, Olimar PrinceLink's Avatar
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    Holy f@#$#@ guys. Take a breather. I mean I will read a few long posts but if everyone has a freaken 5 paragraph essay full of crap it kinda is distracting!

    Just summarize k! Or some how make the important things bold.

    First off what's the discussion about exactly? There is no question to discuss..

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    now i'm white and i'm quite proud of my heritage. am i racist? no but if i were to say white pride i would instantly be labeled a racist.
    I have no idea why but I feel like flaming and bashing you SOOOOOO HARD. I mean SO HARD. I don't know what made me mad but I feel like driving a bat into your head. No joke.

    Idk but I'm sorry it's just that once you study enough world history and US history you white @#$@#s really messed the world up.

    I know your only proud of the "good" stuff they did but hey. If your going to say you love something, your going to have to love all of it. And there is not a enough good to make up for all the bad. EG. If your only proud of the good things your white ancestors did that that's stupid. You either are proud of everything or not. You should say something like I'm proud of all the accomplishments but pretty ashamed at what else they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I like Wales, and I guess I have some pride in this country, but ultimately I don't see my ethnicity/nationality as that big of a deal.
    Short, to the point, and well written. Follow this man and you will go far.
    Last edited by PrinceLink; 11-15-2009 at 04:54 PM.


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  7. #17
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceLink View Post
    Holy f@#$#@ guys. Take a breather. I mean I will read a few long posts but if everyone has a freaken 5 paragraph essay full of crap it kinda is distracting!

    Just summarize k! Or some how make the important things bold.

    First off what's the discussion about exactly? There is no question to discuss..

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    now i'm white and i'm quite proud of my heritage. am i racist? no but if i were to say white pride i would instantly be labeled a racist.
    I have no idea why but I feel like flaming and bashing you SOOOOOO HARD. I mean SO HARD. I don't know what made me mad but I feel like driving a bat into your head. No joke.

    Idk but I'm sorry it's just that once you study enough world history and US history you white @#$@#s really messed the world up.

    I know your only proud of the "good" stuff they did but hey. If your going to say you love something, your going to have to love all of it. And there is not a enough good to make up for all the bad. EG. If your only proud of the good things your white ancestors did that that's stupid. You either are proud of everything or not. You should say something like I'm proud of all the accomplishments but pretty ashamed at what else they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I like Wales, and I guess I have some pride in this country, but ultimately I don't see my ethnicity/nationality as that big of a deal.
    Short, to the point, and well written. Follow this man and you will go far.
    The passages we are writing are nothing compared to hundreds of pages in a book. I know you like to see things very simple and clear, but a message isn't always conveyed in such a manner. If I were to skip to the words you wrote in caps, alls I would read is "SOOOOOOO HARD" and "SO HARD". You're rather horny for the wrong reasons, if you ask me.

    This topic is about discussion, so people can make their passages as long as they need to make them in order to get the point across in the most proper and accurate manner (kind of like I'm doing now).

    And it's not true that if you're gonna like one aspect of something, you should go all the way. I can see where you're coming from when you're irritated about someone being "proud to be white". Because what it sounds like is "we're white and better than everyone else, so we will oppress all others by means of strict imperialism and overall racism", and WHITES are the MAJORITY in these countries. But you went way overboard in your violent (I mean, horny of course) approach. All other ethnic groups have a right to say it because they are the "under-appreciated minority" isn't that right?
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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  8. #18
    WiiChat Member Athronox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceLink View Post
    Holy f@#$#@ guys. Take a breather. I mean I will read a few long posts but if everyone has a freaken 5 paragraph essay full of crap it kinda is distracting!

    Just summarize k! Or some how make the important things bold.

    First off what's the discussion about exactly? There is no question to discuss..

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    now i'm white and i'm quite proud of my heritage. am i racist? no but if i were to say white pride i would instantly be labeled a racist.
    I have no idea why but I feel like flaming and bashing you SOOOOOO HARD. I mean SO HARD. I don't know what made me mad but I feel like driving a bat into your head. No joke.

    Idk but I'm sorry it's just that once you study enough world history and US history you white @#$@#s really messed the world up.

    I know your only proud of the "good" stuff they did but hey. If your going to say you love something, your going to have to love all of it. And there is not a enough good to make up for all the bad. EG. If your only proud of the good things your white ancestors did that that's stupid. You either are proud of everything or not. You should say something like I'm proud of all the accomplishments but pretty ashamed at what else they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I like Wales, and I guess I have some pride in this country, but ultimately I don't see my ethnicity/nationality as that big of a deal.
    Short, to the point, and well written. Follow this man and you will go far.
    If I were to skip to the words you wrote in caps, alls I would read is "SOOOOOOO HARD" and "SO HARD". You're rather horny for the wrong reasons, if you ask me.
    Lmfao. Ownt.

  9. #19
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    lol do you mean that this statement I made?

    "If I were to skip to the words you wrote in caps, alls I would read is "SOOOOOOO HARD" and "SO HARD". You're rather horny for the wrong reasons, if you ask me."

    Or no?
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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  10. #20
    Solid Snake, Olimar PrinceLink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91 View Post
    The passages we are writing are nothing compared to hundreds of pages in a book. I know you like to see things very simple and clear, but a message isn't always conveyed in such a manner. If I were to skip to the words you wrote in caps, alls I would read is "SOOOOOOO HARD" and "SO HARD". You're rather horny for the wrong reasons, if you ask me.

    This topic is about discussion, so people can make their passages as long as they need to make them in order to get the point across in the most proper and accurate manner (kind of like I'm doing now).

    And it's not true that if you're gonna like one aspect of something, you should go all the way. I can see where you're coming from when you're irritated about someone being "proud to be white". Because what it sounds like is "we're white and better than everyone else, so we will oppress all others by means of strict imperialism and overall racism", and WHITES are the MAJORITY in these countries. But you went way overboard in your violent (I mean, horny of course) approach. All other ethnic groups have a right to say it because they are the "under-appreciated minority" isn't that right?
    No mate your head is just in the gutter.

    IDK. I guess I get mad when people say "I'm proud that I'm white" because what are they to be proud of? Sure alright your race has done some cool stuff but they have also done the most dimmest of things ever.

    I'm just saying I think I would have more respect to people who say- I'm proud to be a Jew or Black because they can lose something for saying it.

    I mean you can say your proud of being white as much as you want but you will lose nothing or gain nothing. If you are a hated minority and come out and say your proud to be it then well you prove yourself brave.

    EG. I would get pissed to see a bumper sticker in America that said "Proud to be Christian" because its just stupid. BUT I would like to see it in Iran then I would think "He that guy has some balls and is brave enough to say what he thinks!!! Respect earned dude! O knows he just got shot"


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