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Thread: Does God exist?

  1. #31
    Legendary Super Saiyan The Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    @her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

    ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

    but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

    once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

    and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


    but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
    we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.
    Actually, Allah is simply the Arabic name for God, in which Muslims believe to be the formal name OF God. Ask a Christian Arab what he calls God in his church or language, and you'll see what I mean (yes, Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah).

    Shadow, what I say in these posts ARE proofs that God exists, if you are able to see it. Your mind is completely closed--you have reached a conclusion you are unwilling to compromise. The existence of God isn't based on or doesn't require Him to write it in the clouds or show a miracle in front of your very eyes, alls you have to do is see it for yourself with an open mind. I mean, most people are born with a religion instilled or pushed onto them, I admire atheists' and the like willingness to do some extra thinking and all, but most if not all have deviated from the truth.

    Ok, consider the ant:

    Ants live in colonies and a perfect division of labor exists amongst them. When we take a closer look at their systems, we shall also see that they have a pretty interesting social structure. It will also come to our attention that they are capable of sacrifice at a much higher level than humans are. One of the most interesting points is that - compared to humans - they do not know the concepts such as the rich-poor discrimination and the fight for power that are observed in our societies.

    Many scientists, who for years have been doing extensive research on ants, have not been able to clarify the subject of their advanced social behavior. Caryle P. Haskins, Ph.D., the president of the Carnegie Institute at Washington has this to say:

    After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. ...The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior. (National Geographic, vol.165, no.6, p. 775)

    Some colonies of ants are so extensive with respect to population and living area, that it is impossible to explain how they can form a perfect order over such a vast area. Therefore, it is not easy not to concur with Dr. Haskins.

    As an example of these large colonies we can give the species of ant, called Formica Yessensis that lives on the Ishikari coast of Hokkaido. This ant colony lives in 45,000 interconnected nests over an area of 2.7 square kilometers. The colony, which is composed of approximately 1,080,000 queens and 306,000,000 workers, has been named the "Super colony" by the researchers. (Bert Holldobler-Edward O.Wilson, The Ants, Harvard University Press, 1990, p. 1.) It has been discovered that all production tools and food are exchanged in an orderly fashion within the colony.

    It is very hard to explain how the ants have maintained this order without any problems, considering the vast area they are living in. We must not forget that various security forces are needed for enforcing law and maintaining social order, even in a civilized country with a low population density. And there is an administrative staff leading and managing these units. Sometimes, it does not become possible to maintain the required order without problems despite all these intense efforts.

    Yet in ant colonies there is no need felt for police, gendarmerie or guards. If we consider that actually the duty of the queens, whom we think of as the leaders of the colonies, is just to maintain the species, they do not have a leader or a governor. There is thus no hierarchy based on a chain of command amongst them. Then who is it that lays down this order and maintains its continuity?

    The fact that ants can establish such a great and perfect order is proof that they are acting on the inspiration of a certain "supervisor". The verse below fully confirms that God is the master and supervisor of everything and that every living creature acts on His inspiration:


    Article 2


    Examining the movement of the ant is thought provoking. It moves its infinitesimal legs in a sequential and extremely organised manner knowing perfectly which leg should take the first step and which the next. It moves very rapidly without faltering.

    The Ant lifts crumbs much bigger than its body. It carries them to its nest with heart and soul. It travels distances that are very long in comparison to its tiny body. On featureless land, with no guide at its service, it can easily find its nest. Despite the entrance of the nest being too small even for us to find, it is not confused and finds it no matter where it is.

    When one sees in the garden some ants, lined up one after the other, ardently toiling to carry food to their nest, one cannot stop wondering what kind of purpose these tiny living beings might have in working so hard. Then one realises that not only does the ant carry food for itself, but also for other members of its colony, for the queen ant and baby ants. How such a tiny ant, which does not even have a developed brain, knows diligence, discipline and self-sacrifice is a point on which one needs to reflect.
    First off Turk, what Shadow told you is correct. You offer absolutely no proof for a God existing. these are entirely circumstantial at best, and we have not figured it out yet. You remind me of some of those people that think just because they cant explain why something is the way it is, it must be because of god. Wrong. People have thought things like this for thousands of years... And they continue to be proven wrong.

    Examples:

    Why do we have thunderstorms: Because God is angry at us. Wrong, it has been explained scientifically and makes perfect sense.

    Why do we have tornados: Because God is angry, and so they named tornados originally as "the Finger of God" because it reaches down from the heavens and destroys all in its path, thus incurrin god's fury. Wrong. We know its because of warm and cool air chasing eachother, which we can break down even further to being because the atoms arte attracted to eachother to fill outer energy levels and blah blah blah more chemistry talk.

    Where is Heaven: Up in the clouds? Nope, proven wrong again. We know what forms clouds and why theyre there, there is no mystical city nor pearly gates at the top awaiting the good hearted souls of the damned.

    Where is hell: Obviously, if their is a heaven their has to be a hell. It was thought before that hell resided deep in the earth under its crust in the magma and flames. Fals false false. No hell their, and sure as hell (lol as hell) there is no devil there. We know what lies in the earth.

    Why do we have droughts: Because God is punishing us. lmao... that one gets me everytime.

    I can give you countless reasons why your wrong Turk. Whether its droughts, or storms, or heaven and hell, or sins or commandments or "magic" or the "will of god" or any of that stuff... It can all be proven wrong, and proven reality through fact. Some things we do not understand yet, but the only reason truly religious people still are around and have "faith" is because they know they are getting proven wrong and so they use God as a scapegoat for things they know we cant explain yet. So, basically, your grasping at straws, because you know you have no ground left to hold onto. Logic and reason are beating you to a pulp.

    btw... lol... No insult to you, but cant you come up with facts and replies on your own? Its kinda sad when your loosing the battle so badly and you have so little proof that you actually have to use another website to talk for you because you yourself have no response.
    Quote Originally Posted by Splash_King View Post


    EVERY TIME ALTARIA IS MENTIONED YOU SHOW UP WTF IS THIS BULLSHITragetext

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Storm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    @her0: Allah is the Islamic name for God

    ok first off Turk, a watch is man-made. anything man-made can be traced to some creater.

    but for the sun & earth thing. gravity. a simple arguement, gravity. during the time before life began on our planet, the earth was either too close or too far which prevented life. then something happened, likely meteor impacts, and pushed the Earth into the orbit we know today. this event also gave the earth its tilt, giving us the seasons.

    once the ideal conditions were set up, life began to evole. first with single-cell organisms that pretty much evolved from nearly nothing. and from there came everything about life as we know it.

    and you say the sunrise-sunset was 'created' to look beautiful. no that just happens to be how it happened. plus not everybody finds a sunrise/set beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true. i personally don't care for the sun as i spend most of my days indoors. i'm more of a night person. the sun is just something that humanity needs to me. then again live in Arizona and your likely to develop a similar opinion


    but this still goes back to what i said in my previous post, what proof do you offer? you could claim this stuff for twenty years but without any tangible proof, your arguements hold little standing.
    we, on the other hand, are using science's proven laws and facts to argue. our arguments haven been proven through testing and debates before and they will now. we're using facts, your using feelings. you'll be hard pressed to win an arguement without proof, especially about something so controversial.
    Actually, Allah is simply the Arabic name for God, in which Muslims believe to be the formal name OF God. Ask a Christian Arab what he calls God in his church or language, and you'll see what I mean (yes, Christian Arabs refer to God as Allah).

    Shadow, what I say in these posts ARE proofs that God exists, if you are able to see it. Your mind is completely closed--you have reached a conclusion you are unwilling to compromise. The existence of God isn't based on or doesn't require Him to write it in the clouds or show a miracle in front of your very eyes, alls you have to do is see it for yourself with an open mind. I mean, most people are born with a religion instilled or pushed onto them, I admire atheists' and the like willingness to do some extra thinking and all, but most if not all have deviated from the truth.

    Ok, consider the ant:

    Ants live in colonies and a perfect division of labor exists amongst them. When we take a closer look at their systems, we shall also see that they have a pretty interesting social structure. It will also come to our attention that they are capable of sacrifice at a much higher level than humans are. One of the most interesting points is that - compared to humans - they do not know the concepts such as the rich-poor discrimination and the fight for power that are observed in our societies.

    Many scientists, who for years have been doing extensive research on ants, have not been able to clarify the subject of their advanced social behavior. Caryle P. Haskins, Ph.D., the president of the Carnegie Institute at Washington has this to say:

    After 60 years of observation and study, I still marvel at how sophisticated the ants' social behavior is. ...The ants thus make a beautiful model for our use in studying the roots of animal behavior. (National Geographic, vol.165, no.6, p. 775)

    Some colonies of ants are so extensive with respect to population and living area, that it is impossible to explain how they can form a perfect order over such a vast area. Therefore, it is not easy not to concur with Dr. Haskins.

    As an example of these large colonies we can give the species of ant, called Formica Yessensis that lives on the Ishikari coast of Hokkaido. This ant colony lives in 45,000 interconnected nests over an area of 2.7 square kilometers. The colony, which is composed of approximately 1,080,000 queens and 306,000,000 workers, has been named the "Super colony" by the researchers. (Bert Holldobler-Edward O.Wilson, The Ants, Harvard University Press, 1990, p. 1.) It has been discovered that all production tools and food are exchanged in an orderly fashion within the colony.

    It is very hard to explain how the ants have maintained this order without any problems, considering the vast area they are living in. We must not forget that various security forces are needed for enforcing law and maintaining social order, even in a civilized country with a low population density. And there is an administrative staff leading and managing these units. Sometimes, it does not become possible to maintain the required order without problems despite all these intense efforts.

    Yet in ant colonies there is no need felt for police, gendarmerie or guards. If we consider that actually the duty of the queens, whom we think of as the leaders of the colonies, is just to maintain the species, they do not have a leader or a governor. There is thus no hierarchy based on a chain of command amongst them. Then who is it that lays down this order and maintains its continuity?

    The fact that ants can establish such a great and perfect order is proof that they are acting on the inspiration of a certain "supervisor". The verse below fully confirms that God is the master and supervisor of everything and that every living creature acts on His inspiration:


    Article 2


    Examining the movement of the ant is thought provoking. It moves its infinitesimal legs in a sequential and extremely organised manner knowing perfectly which leg should take the first step and which the next. It moves very rapidly without faltering.

    The Ant lifts crumbs much bigger than its body. It carries them to its nest with heart and soul. It travels distances that are very long in comparison to its tiny body. On featureless land, with no guide at its service, it can easily find its nest. Despite the entrance of the nest being too small even for us to find, it is not confused and finds it no matter where it is.

    When one sees in the garden some ants, lined up one after the other, ardently toiling to carry food to their nest, one cannot stop wondering what kind of purpose these tiny living beings might have in working so hard. Then one realises that not only does the ant carry food for itself, but also for other members of its colony, for the queen ant and baby ants. How such a tiny ant, which does not even have a developed brain, knows diligence, discipline and self-sacrifice is a point on which one needs to reflect.
    First off Turk, what Shadow told you is correct. You offer absolutely no proof for a God existing. these are entirely circumstantial at best, and we have not figured it out yet. You remind me of some of those people that think just because they cant explain why something is the way it is, it must be because of god. Wrong. People have thought things like this for thousands of years... And they continue to be proven wrong.

    Examples:

    Why do we have thunderstorms: Because God is angry at us. Wrong, it has been explained scientifically and makes perfect sense.

    Why do we have tornados: Because God is angry, and so they named tornados originally as "the Finger of God" because it reaches down from the heavens and destroys all in its path, thus incurrin god's fury. Wrong. We know its because of warm and cool air chasing eachother, which we can break down even further to being because the atoms arte attracted to eachother to fill outer energy levels and blah blah blah more chemistry talk.

    Where is Heaven: Up in the clouds? Nope, proven wrong again. We know what forms clouds and why theyre there, there is no mystical city nor pearly gates at the top awaiting the good hearted souls of the damned.

    Where is hell: Obviously, if their is a heaven their has to be a hell. It was thought before that hell resided deep in the earth under its crust in the magma and flames. Fals false false. No hell their, and sure as hell (lol as hell) there is no devil there. We know what lies in the earth.

    Why do we have droughts: Because God is punishing us. lmao... that one gets me everytime.

    I can give you countless reasons why your wrong Turk. Whether its droughts, or storms, or heaven and hell, or sins or commandments or "magic" or the "will of god" or any of that stuff... It can all be proven wrong, and proven reality through fact. Some things we do not understand yet, but the only reason truly religious people still are around and have "faith" is because they know they are getting proven wrong and so they use God as a scapegoat for things they know we cant explain yet. So, basically, your grasping at straws, because you know you have no ground left to hold onto. Logic and reason are beating you to a pulp.

    btw... lol... No insult to you, but cant you come up with facts and replies on your own? Its kinda sad when your loosing the battle so badly and you have so little proof that you actually have to use another website to talk for you because you yourself have no response.
    In your own way, you just sterotyped us Christians in a horrific way. What world do you live in? O_o I never had thoughts of God sending thunderstorms, tornadoes, etc. when he's mad. And I'm a true Christian. Honestly, I can say to you that you have little to no faith in God, and you need help, but you won't listen. Do I care? Not really, but I'm just saying.

    Spoiler Alert!

  3. #33
    Senior Member Napalmbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoZ94 View Post
    In your own way, you just sterotyped us Christians in a horrific way. What world do you live in? O_o I never had thoughts of God sending thunderstorms, tornadoes, etc. when he's mad. And I'm a true Christian. Honestly, I can say to you that you have little to no faith in God, and you need help, but you won't listen. Do I care? Not really, but I'm just saying.
    But he has a valid point. Things like tornadoes and thunderstorms were once thought to be "the wrath of the gods", but now we know better. By the same token, it's not unreasonable to think that someday we'll be able to explain all the mysteries of the Universe through natural means.
    Last edited by Napalmbrain; 11-21-2009 at 07:54 PM.



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  4. #34
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Storm View Post
    First off Turk, what Shadow told you is correct. You offer absolutely no proof for a God existing. these are entirely circumstantial at best, and we have not figured it out yet. You remind me of some of those people that think just because they cant explain why something is the way it is, it must be because of god. Wrong. People have thought things like this for thousands of years... And they continue to be proven wrong.

    Examples:

    Why do we have thunderstorms: Because God is angry at us. Wrong, it has been explained scientifically and makes perfect sense.

    Why do we have tornados: Because God is angry, and so they named tornados originally as "the Finger of God" because it reaches down from the heavens and destroys all in its path, thus incurrin god's fury. Wrong. We know its because of warm and cool air chasing eachother, which we can break down even further to being because the atoms arte attracted to eachother to fill outer energy levels and blah blah blah more chemistry talk.

    Where is Heaven: Up in the clouds? Nope, proven wrong again. We know what forms clouds and why theyre there, there is no mystical city nor pearly gates at the top awaiting the good hearted souls of the damned.

    Where is hell: Obviously, if their is a heaven their has to be a hell. It was thought before that hell resided deep in the earth under its crust in the magma and flames. Fals false false. No hell their, and sure as hell (lol as hell) there is no devil there. We know what lies in the earth.

    Why do we have droughts: Because God is punishing us. lmao... that one gets me everytime.

    I can give you countless reasons why your wrong Turk. Whether its droughts, or storms, or heaven and hell, or sins or commandments or "magic" or the "will of god" or any of that stuff... It can all be proven wrong, and proven reality through fact. Some things we do not understand yet, but the only reason truly religious people still are around and have "faith" is because they know they are getting proven wrong and so they use God as a scapegoat for things they know we cant explain yet. So, basically, your grasping at straws, because you know you have no ground left to hold onto. Logic and reason are beating you to a pulp.

    btw... lol... No insult to you, but cant you come up with facts and replies on your own? Its kinda sad when your loosing the battle so badly and you have so little proof that you actually have to use another website to talk for you because you yourself have no response.
    How can one see the "proof" that I am showing here when the only way to prove to them that God exists is to see him physically with their own eyes? When proof to them is God appearing and writing his name in the clouds and physically speaking in the English language (lol) to the whole planet with a deep, man-like voice. All of the things that you stated are AGE-OLD mythological things that are found mostly in cartoons and the media these days. Nobody believes that heaven is somewhere in the clouds, and that hell is the actual core of the earth where the devil resides. Boz is right, even as a Muslim, I have been offended by what you said and choose to defend Christianity in this case. I wouldn't have admitted to copy-pasting from a web site if I were as ashamed as you make me seem I should be. Not to mention, I read all of them before copy-pasting them, and slightly edit each one.

    The reason there are miseries in this world, I'll say it in my own words so that you don't go on thinking I'm copy-pasting because "I have no better defense and am out of things to refute with"--well, how do we explain them? The fact that natural disasters and misery is evidence in this world doesn't by any means even show in the slightest bit that God doesn't exist. For every evil thing, there is good that comes out of it, and God knows this. Often times, we find that the most vulnerable people (elderly people, infants, small children, etc.) are sole survivors of tragic incidents--I see this as a mercy more than anything else. You could say "what about all the other vulnerable people?", I said often times the MOST vulnerable of the vulnerable are secured.

    Satan refused (this means nothing to you, but I'm just making a point) to bow to Adam and out of his own ARROGANCE disobeyed God. God knew it was going to happen, and allowed it, because He knew that there was to be good coming from it.

    A mother takes her child to the doctor's office to get several needle shots. The child starts screaming and kicking once he realizes this fact, "knowing" that it is evil. What he doesn't know or understand is that sticking the needle in his arm will benefit him, only his immature mind and perception of pain is taking over his ability to reason. Of course the act of simply "sticking needles into people" is considered an evil act, but doing so in a reasonable fashion that produces only benefits is indeed good. There is good even in something that appears to be evil, but you may not know it.

    And I'm not using another site to further my means, I'm using a worthy source that is already there to prove that God exists. I wasn't losing any battles when I first posted them up, and I'm not losing any right now either. Since I believe that God exists and that it is extremely obvious to me, I can only believe that when we read the same things, when you are reading them and have in mind that there is absolutely no God,s you are being very stubborn (and of course, you may think the same of me).

    Most theists should be able to relate to the articles I am posting up here since most believe in the existence of God, and I have edited them in such a way that they do not cater to any one religion.

    BTW, your attempt to make me feel like a pansy by using arguments written by other people has done nothing to make me feel any different about anything. It's using supporting information to back up my own, since when was that a crime?
    Last edited by RPGMasterTurk91; 11-21-2009 at 08:21 PM.
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  5. #35
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    ok, who the **** took my evidece away
    wut? u just cant accept being wrong
    that evidece was too real? WTF!
    "I'm not afraid to take a stand
    Everybody come take my hand
    We'll walk this road together, through the storm
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    Just let you know that, you're not alone
    Holla if you feel that you've been down the same road"
    -Eminem

  6. #36
    Senior Member Napalmbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by her01771 View Post
    ok, who the **** took my evidece away
    wut? u just cant accept being wrong
    that evidece was too real? WTF!
    I moved your "evidence" to the Evolution thread.



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  7. #37
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by her01771 View Post
    ok, who the **** took my evidece away
    wut? u just cant accept being wrong
    that evidece was too real? WTF!
    I moved your "evidence" to the Evolution thread.
    Ugh I mean I understand why you're doing that and all, but he wanted it posted on a thread specific to the argument about God existing or not, not on an argument about religion. I didn't see the argument as being more relevant to evolution than it was to God existing, both topics have their differences..
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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  8. #38
    Senior Member Napalmbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGMasterTurk91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by her01771 View Post
    ok, who the **** took my evidece away
    wut? u just cant accept being wrong
    that evidece was too real? WTF!
    I moved your "evidence" to the Evolution thread.
    Ugh I mean I understand why you're doing that and all, but he wanted it posted on a thread specific to the argument about God existing or not, not on an argument about religion. I didn't see the argument as being more relevant to evolution than it was to God existing, both topics have their differences..
    The post was mainly about coelacanths rather than about the existence of God, so I felt it belonged there.



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  9. #39
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    why worry if theres a god or not live you life without regret and do the best you can and live everyday like as if it was your last day then you can say you had a good life. heres a quote i use around subjects about death


    were dieing to live but were liveing to die.

  10. #40
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irape4free View Post
    why worry if theres a god or not live you life without regret and do the best you can and live everyday like as if it was your last day then you can say you had a good life. heres a quote i use around subjects about death


    were dieing to live but were liveing to die.
    Thanks for your comment.

    Why worry? It doesn't work like that, the way you put it is saying that no matter what the case may be, who cares, just live your life. The thing is--if there is a God who created us, then do we have a purpose? To realize the truth and that he exists? I believe that he exists, and that he sent mankind the proper and best way to live, one that caters to the nature of the human being as well as logic.
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

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