LoginRegister
Nintendo Wii / Wii U Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 51 of 65 FirstFirst ... 41 49 50 51 52 53 61 ... LastLast
Results 501 to 510 of 642

Thread: Does God exist?

  1. #501
    Not Here Shadow*91's Avatar
    Member #
    55593
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Another site.
    Posts
    1,915
    Friends
    38
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    0000-0000-0000-0000
    yeah that's right.
    sorta contradicts itself right?

  2. Ads


  3. #502
    Bio
    Bio is offline
    WiiChat Member Bio's Avatar
    Member #
    55530
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,078
    Friends
    24
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    Quote Originally Posted by S.S. View Post
    Let me see if I've got this straight.

    Napalm is saying that if God knows what choices you're going to make, it must be preset and therefore we don't have free will. The theists are saying that while God knows what decision you are going to make, it's not a decision he has made for you and therefore it IS free will, God just knew how you were going to exercise said free will before you did. Is that about right?
    Generally speaking, that's what I have gotten out of it so far in following the discussion.
    Last edited by Bio; 01-21-2010 at 10:13 PM.
    Brawl Code: 3566 3531 3273

    Official Recordkeeper of the 1v1 League
    Want to compete in Smash Bros. on WiiChat? Join the League now! =)
    (I am NOT accepting Friend codes.)

  4. #503
    Super Geek Shadowking's Avatar
    Member #
    30149
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,010
    Friends
    17
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    3347-5827-8593-7298
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow*91 View Post
    yeah that's right.
    sorta contradicts itself right?
    Both sides make sense to me actually. When Napalm used the example with Mr X his side made a whole lot more sense...but what the theists are saying makes sense to me as well because they aren't claiming God DECIDES your future just that he KNOWS it. It's more like a magic trick than a contradiction.

    Granted it doesn't make me believe in God even if the theists are right on that particular point, but I'm not too sure that it disproves anything either.


    Spoiler Alert!


  5. #504
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
    Member #
    1322
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in New Jersey
    Posts
    737
    Friends
    13
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    Quote Originally Posted by S.S. View Post
    Let me see if I've got this straight.

    Napalm is saying that if God knows what choices you're going to make, it must be preset and therefore we don't have free will. The theists are saying that while God knows what decision you are going to make, it's not a decision he has made for you and therefore it IS free will, God just knew how you were going to exercise said free will before you did. Is that about right?
    Yes, that is the condensed version and the gist of our discussion, well put.

    You have your free will, and God knows what you will do with it before you do, and will know the outcome of your entire life. This by no means charges that your future was preset (and thus unchangeable by God, disqualifying Him from being Omniscient if he existed in the first place) just because it (your future) is already known, God knows what your free will and life experiences will lead you to (you have control over your free will...it's implied), and may aid you in the present time which will help to form the 'bigger future', which is already known by God. Thus having free will does not make omniscience an impossibility and is not a paradox at all. The concept of being omniscient and omnipotent seems 'magical' in itself, but it is true that there is none like God and God is nothing like the creation, according to the theistic point of view, and that such traits belong to the creator of ALL things, and Him alone.
    Last edited by RPGMasterTurk91; 01-21-2010 at 11:37 PM.
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

    SSBB: 0602-5954-4722 CURRENTLY RETIRED FROM ONLINE PLAY AND VIDEO GAMES IN GENERAL

  6. #505
    Bio
    Bio is offline
    WiiChat Member Bio's Avatar
    Member #
    55530
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,078
    Friends
    24
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    So I'm going to try and put what you just said, Turk, into simpler terms:

    God knows the future, and we are given free will to shape our future as we see fit. Whatever we do will be known by God before it happens, but how our future is written is up to us.

    Would that be a fair summary? Seeing as what I said sounds as though I re-iterated what S.S. said (who you responded to), it might indicate that what I said is on track.
    Last edited by Bio; 01-21-2010 at 11:51 PM.
    Brawl Code: 3566 3531 3273

    Official Recordkeeper of the 1v1 League
    Want to compete in Smash Bros. on WiiChat? Join the League now! =)
    (I am NOT accepting Friend codes.)

  7. #506
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
    Member #
    1322
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in New Jersey
    Posts
    737
    Friends
    13
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bio View Post
    So I'm going to try and put what you just said, Turk, into simpler terms:

    God knows the future, and we are given free will to shape our future as we see fit. Whatever we do will be known by God before it happens, but how our future is written is up to us.

    Would that be a fair summary? Seeing as what I said sounds as though I re-iterated what S.S. said (who you responded to), it might indicate that what I said is on track.
    For the most part, it is a proper way to sum up what I have been saying. Only, we cannot guarantee our future, only God can. It doesn't always work around 'how we see fit', those were the little details and circumstances I talked about earlier, mostly things and situations we don't have any control over and are forced to face. As the 'mess-ups' or 'opportunities' occur (depending on the situation), one still has the free will to react to it in his or her way.

    Thanks for the input, Bio. I feel at peace when reading something from you, not because you are taking a neutral position, but rather you write brief, easy-to-follow paragraphs. I like your style; my style differs in that I type as much as I would talk; my typing is more realistically inclined (that is, sounds more like someone just speaking it (I guess), whereas yours is short and to the point and is easy to follow.
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

    SSBB: 0602-5954-4722 CURRENTLY RETIRED FROM ONLINE PLAY AND VIDEO GAMES IN GENERAL

  8. #507
    Senior Member Napalmbrain's Avatar
    Member #
    43
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    4,286
    Friends
    15
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    I still don't feel like my question has been answered though: How can a choice with only one possible outcome really be a "choice"?



    I never add friend codes.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndThen?
    @ROB64 - The longer you spend on this forum, the more you realise that Napalmbrain knows a lot about everything.


  9. #508
    Novocain Stain'd ssbb_lover's Avatar
    WiiChat Moderator
    Member #
    518
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    7,771
    Friends
    27
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    1234-1234-1234-1234
    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I still don't feel like my question has been answered though: How can a choice with only one possible outcome really be a "choice"?
    I believe this is what Turk feels is "flawed logic" as he stated before, because humans have free will and we do actually have a choice, it's just that God knows what that choice is going to be. Or at least I think that's what he would say, but I'm with you here (as usual), Kyle.

    Here's another example. Say a magician lures you in to play a game, and the purpose of this game is for you to pick one of three objects. Assume that somehow it is rigged so that the magician knows exactly what you're going to pick every single time. What would your impressions be walking away from the man who could "guess" (know) your every move? I know for myself, it would be something along the lines of, "I never stood a chance. No matter what object I chose, he already had anticipated it." Another thought that might comes to mind is the fact that it couldn't be real, it's just not possible that he could figure it out 100 times out of 100 naturally, without it being rigged.

    For me, this not only has "no choice" stamped over it, but also that we instinctively doubt such abilities. From a theist's point of view, one could say we do so because we are incredulous of God's power, but I can more easily say the most logical thing: it's not possible and there's no proof to say it is (because there's no proof of some omniscient God, regardless of omnipotence).

    Hopefully that contributes towards the argument somewhat.

    Super Moderator - PM me if you have any issues.

    We Want Young Blood.


  10. #509
    Turkish RPG Master RPGMasterTurk91's Avatar
    Member #
    1322
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Somewhere in New Jersey
    Posts
    737
    Friends
    13
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    Quote Originally Posted by ssbb_lover View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain View Post
    I still don't feel like my question has been answered though: How can a choice with only one possible outcome really be a "choice"?
    I believe this is what Turk feels is "flawed logic" as he stated before, because humans have free will and we do actually have a choice, it's just that God knows what that choice is going to be. Or at least I think that's what he would say, but I'm with you here (as usual), Kyle.

    Here's another example. Say a magician lures you in to play a game, and the purpose of this game is for you to pick one of three objects. Assume that somehow it is rigged so that the magician knows exactly what you're going to pick every single time. What would your impressions be walking away from the man who could "guess" (know) your every move? I know for myself, it would be something along the lines of, "I never stood a chance. No matter what object I chose, he already had anticipated it." Another thought that might comes to mind is the fact that it couldn't be real, it's just not possible that he could figure it out 100 times out of 100 naturally, without it being rigged.

    For me, this not only has "no choice" stamped over it, but also that we instinctively doubt such abilities. From a theist's point of view, one could say we do so because we are incredulous of God's power, but I can more easily say the most logical thing: it's not possible and there's no proof to say it is (because there's no proof of some omniscient God, regardless of omnipotence).

    Hopefully that contributes towards the argument somewhat.
    At this point, I fully realize that the main argument is that omniscience cannot exist when free will does, or a paradox (impossibility) will ensue. Does anyone else feel like explaining that there is actually logic in the existence of the two? I'm going to end up repeating myself, though most of the time I don't mind it. Just want to see other theists' point of views...I'm Muslim, in case anyone didn't figure that out already.

    Keep in mind that omniscience only belongs to God alone, no creation of His could actually know for sure everything, there will never, has never, and can never be an omniscient living being. The quality belongs to the single God alone.
    "Many religions within a nation causes little conflict, but two religions within a nation is nothing less than conflict."
    "If you can speak three languages, you are trinomial. If you can speak two languages, you are binomial. If you can speak one language, you are American."
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"--Theodore Roosevelt. Haha describes me nicely.

    SSBB: 0602-5954-4722 CURRENTLY RETIRED FROM ONLINE PLAY AND VIDEO GAMES IN GENERAL

  11. #510
    Super Geek Shadowking's Avatar
    Member #
    30149
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,010
    Friends
    17
    Wii Friend Code: $post[field5]
    3347-5827-8593-7298
    That's just it though Napalm, there isn't only one possible outcome. You make the decision for yourself. If God created you, he knows how you operate and would be able to figure out which decision you are going to make. He has absolutely no influence. Let's go back to your example of Mr X. He wrote down orange on the piece of paper if I remember correctly. But you don't have any idea what he wrote down so you are still making the decision between the two, he just knows that you're going to choose the orange.

    I understand your point as well, as I have said, this just isn't a convincing point for either side of the coin.


    Spoiler Alert!


Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. 59 Poes Glitch - does it exist?
    By DVDGuy in forum Legend of Zelda
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-30-2009, 07:34 PM
  2. Call of Duty 5 Doesn't exist!!!
    By akubokawii in forum Xbox Consoles
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 07-28-2009, 05:41 PM
  3. wiiface does it exist?
    By nark_1 in forum Nintendo Wii Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-23-2007, 11:45 PM
  4. if nintendo didnt exist wat do u thimk would be................
    By rishi 20 in forum Nintendo Wii Gaming
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-11-2007, 05:32 PM
  5. Christians
    By kissoff182 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 486
    Last Post: 03-31-2007, 07:24 PM

Search tags for this page

because through it i see

,

does god care or even exist?

,

does god exist forums

,

things that are not humanly possible

,

thunderstorms is god mad

Click on a term to search for related topics.