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  1. #11
    WiiChat Member Athronox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPrinny View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Athronox View Post
    #1:
    Split Screen 4 player was never that good of a idea on a game like that
    What of the recent DS version?
    Wont that be even better as its still going
    Theres always the Xbox/PS2/360 versions as well
    (Till Monster Hunter heh)
    #2:
    Take a look at the Dreamcast list
    HA
    Unknown thats a good joke
    It gave the PS2 a run for its money
    Even more so than the Game Cube
    Lets have a look at retro Gamers top 25 Dreamcast games shall we

    Spoiler Alert!

    Wow it just creaks of obscure titles
    Dont think many people have herd of Sonic Adventure, Soul calibur, PSO, House of the Dead 2, Resident Evil CV, Street Fighter 3/3, MSR, Vurtua Tennis 2, Marvel vs capcom 2 and Shenmue
    But how many of them have come out on other consoles?

    7/10 isnt a bad review but I dont really read reviews for the scores
    (Theres a whole back history of rigged scores for back handers among some dodgy mags)
    And there was that time when Edge Magazine game Gunstar Heroes a low score
    Something they regretted doing
    (And a recent PS3 mag gave it 37% saying it looked crap)

    Point is
    review scores are just a number(or hands in the case of the golden days of CVG mag) they mean nothing at the end of the day if you your self enjoy the game
    If I bought my games off review scores i probably would never have most the games I have and enjoy now
    #5:
    They did sell well that I admit
    But as I always say sales dont matter
    Look at Shadow of the Colossus/Ico on PS2.
    Shite sales but regarded as the best
    @Everything Else: MKDD gets bashed on waaaaayyyyy too much. There was nothing wrong with it. It had a ton of tracks, great multiplayer modes (not to mention, it was one of the very few games that included LAN), lots of karts and racers, and good controls. It is essentially the same thing as MK64, just a tad slower and with another set of items to use (via your partner), that's all. Besides, who doesn't love the bouncing fireball, eh?
    The two karters one kart thing made me dislike it.
    But thats just my opinion.

    Let us stop this now as this might go into one of them fan boy battles that become annoying
    Fanboyism? Pfffh, leave that for the Xbots mate. We're real gamers, let's not sully ourselves with such things.

    #1: Well first of all, there never was a PS2 version of PSO, just that terrible spin-off. Secondly, the Xbox version really isn't worth mentioning, as it is completely integrated through Xbox live (and since it's not compatible with the 360, that means it can't be played online anymore, not even on a private server), doesn't have all the features of the GC version, and let's face it...This is the Xbox we're talking about here. It has the worst controller of the last 10 years, undoubtedly. So, again, it's really a matchup between DC and GC, and DC clearly loses that one. As for the DS version you mention, it's not even the same game...We're talking Phantasy Star Online: Episode 1 & 2, not some horrible portable spin-off with half the graphical capabilities and shoddy controls.

    #2: ?

    #3 I have about 5 friends who I play games with on a regular basis. I once spoke with them about the Dreamcast. None of them knew what it was, so I explained. The Dreamcast died in 2001, almost 10 years ago. Most "gamers" today, unfortunately represent ages 12 to 16, and none of them are going to know about a console which is older than they are. The fact is, the Dreamcast was a good console, but it was not a great console. I mean come on, let's be real here. I own a Dreamcast, and I've had fun playing SC, Rayman, Sonic Adventure, etc. on it. But when it all comes down to it, it's not a very good console by today's standards. Sure, it had some online games, so did the SNES, and the Saturn, and the N64, and the Genesis before it. Are you seriously telling me that the DC's library "trounces" the PS2? Have you gone mad? The DC has about 8 really quality titles. The GC and PS2 have more along the lines of 50 and 150 respectively. And yes, it does wreak of obscure titles. Almost no one knows about Rez or Ikaruga or Dynamite Cop. It's a very old console, and it's one which never made it past its second year, didn't sell very many games, and didn't sell very many consoles. Don't expect people to know about it, because they wouldn't, and they don't.

    #4: That kind of just reinforces my point then, doesn't it? Reviewers are, for the most part, payed jackasses who sit around, play a game for 3 hours, and then either be overly or underly critical of it. If everyone thought what reviewers thought of a game like SFA, it wouldn't have sold a million some copies. What really matters is what players think, and players think of it just fine.

    #5: Again...I'm not saying sales are the ONLY factor, but they are a contributing factor none the less. As I mentioned, you have games like Eternal Darkness which are just brilliant, but they don't sell well because they had no promotion, or in some cases, most people will just find them too hard. Overall however, any game that gets both bad reviews and has bad sales, is- yes, a bad game. Star Fox: Assault, as an example, got "bad" reviews, but had great sales, and great reception by gamers, and therefore is not a bad game.

    BTW: Why are you using Ico and SOTC as examples of games that sold poorly? SOTC sold 140k copies in its first week, and has sold 940,000 worldwide so far (and it's still being produced might I add), Ico has sold around 700,000, and sold around 110,000 it's first week. That's pretty good, especially considering neither of them really had any advertising to speak of.

  2. #12
    Bringer of meaty goodness DBloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athronox View Post
    Fanboyism? Pfffh, leave that for the Xbots mate. We're real gamers, let's not sully ourselves with such things.
    Fanboyism on retro consoles will never die
    #1:
    Was thinking of PSU
    Graphics dont make the game
    About that DS version
    Taken off the wikki
    Phantasy Star 0 received a high 33 out of 40 from Famitsu magazine, which praised the game's controls, game play, and online mode, noting "it really feels like an online game in the palm of your hand." The publication criticized the game's "softness of the sound."[5] Phantasy Star 0 sold approximately 84,055 copies during its debut week in Japan
    #2: ?
    A few answers got mixed up
    I have about 5 friends who I play games with on a regular basis. I once spoke with them about the Dreamcast. None of them knew what it was, so I explained. The Dreamcast died in 2001, almost 10 years ago.
    You need more gamer friends.
    Most "gamers" today, unfortunately represent ages 12 to 16, and none of them are going to know about a console which is older than they are.
    I can raise a good objection to that.
    The average age of gamers is 25 to 30 due to a recent survey and even some of the younger ones that call them self's "HARDCORE" at least know of the early consoles
    The fact is, the Dreamcast was a good console, but it was not a great console. I mean come on, let's be real here. I own a Dreamcast, and I've had fun playing SC, Rayman, Sonic Adventure, etc. on it. But when it all comes down to it, it's not a very good console by today's standards.
    I know a few people on a different forums that can dispute that.

    Sure, it had some online games, so did the SNES, and the Saturn, and the N64, and the Genesis before it.
    The N64 had online?

    Are you seriously telling me that the DC's library "trounces" the PS2? Have you gone mad?
    Note the usage of past tense in my wording
    It gave the PS2 a run for its money
    True a lot of Dreamcast games got ported but thats probably because they where good
    The DC has about 8 really quality titles. The GC and PS2 have more along the lines of 50 and 150 respectively. And yes, it does wreak of obscure titles.
    It has more than 8 must haves

    Almost no one knows about Rez or Ikaruga or Dynamite Cop. It's a very old console, and it's one which never made it past its second year, didn't sell very many games, and didn't sell very many consoles.
    So is the Atari 2600 but that dosnt stop people from still playing on it often.
    It didnt make it past its second year cause of Segas bad mistake and there are still games coming out for it so its not dead yet


    #4:
    Nope
    I only ever read the reviews from trusted mags that know what there talking about (no single format as there biased)
    I still ignore the score though

    BTW: Why are you using Ico and SOTC as examples of games that sold poorly? SOTC sold 140k copies in its first week, and has sold 940,000 worldwide so far
    Thats still quite poor for a PS2 game
    (and it's still being produced might I add),
    Where?
    No stores I go into have it new.
    That's pretty good, especially considering neither of them really had any advertising to speak of.
    You musnt read magazines then
    SOTC was advertised a lot


    This is starting to turn into a bit of a debate here isnt it?
    All this from a suggestion.


    You new? See this!
    W
    ii U FAQ

    Spoiler Alert!

    @D_Bloke - My inane prattle


  3. #13
    WiiChat Member Athronox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPrinny View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Athronox View Post
    Fanboyism? Pfffh, leave that for the Xbots mate. We're real gamers, let's not sully ourselves with such things.
    Fanboyism on retro consoles will never die
    #1:
    Was thinking of PSU
    Graphics dont make the game
    About that DS version
    Taken off the wikki



    A few answers got mixed up

    You need more gamer friends.

    I can raise a good objection to that.
    The average age of gamers is 25 to 30 due to a recent survey and even some of the younger ones that call them self's "HARDCORE" at least know of the early consoles

    I know a few people on a different forums that can dispute that.


    The N64 had online?


    Note the usage of past tense in my wording

    True a lot of Dreamcast games got ported but thats probably because they where good

    It has more than 8 must haves


    So is the Atari 2600 but that dosnt stop people from still playing on it often.
    It didnt make it past its second year cause of Segas bad mistake and there are still games coming out for it so its not dead yet



    Nope
    I only ever read the reviews from trusted mags that know what there talking about (no single format as there biased)
    I still ignore the score though


    Thats still quite poor for a PS2 game
    (and it's still being produced might I add),
    Where?
    No stores I go into have it new.
    That's pretty good, especially considering neither of them really had any advertising to speak of.
    You musnt read magazines then
    SOTC was advertised a lot


    This is starting to turn into a bit of a debate here isnt it?
    All this from a suggestion.
    Debates are fun, that's why we have forums afterall :P. Debates are only bad when people start insulting each other and going "U SUK AT DIS GAME GET DAT NUT LUZER", and whatnot.


    #1: Unfortunately I can't much counter that at this time, considering the game is only out in JP atm. I'm just going by what people who have played it have told me. However, reviews good or reviews bad, the DS does not have the capabilities to be as endearing as the original PSO. You're irght, graphics aren't all that matters, but they are a big part of it. One of the reasons PSO is so much different from all other RPGs out there is because of the way it looks. It puts a futuristic twist on the tried and true swords and sorcery genre, and all the landscapes are so vast and beautiful. That's something the DS just isn't powerful enough to recreate, as clearly seen by a few screen shots from PSZ right here:

    PSZ: http://alteredconfusion.files.wordpr...rportable1.jpg

    PSO: http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content...pso-dragon.jpg

    *Cough*

    #2: Ah, nvm then.

    #3: You're probably right, as most of my friends barely play games at all, and aren't very open to trying anything outside of COD4 and Halo, which is disappointing to me as a retro gamer of sorts. However, I am simply using that statistic as an example that most people out there today don't know of such an aged console.

    #4: A survey shows that most gamers are 25 to 30- on a survey mostly answered my 25 to 30 year olds. 15 year old kids wouldn't be taking such a survey in the first place, most likely. Also, look at the Wii. While many people own a Wii for collection purposes, or for the few exclusive games it has, the majority of people who own a Wii own it because they aren't hardcore, they're casual and they like easy games, but that makes them gamers none the less, and they know nothing of any consoles like the DC or saturn. As for the young ones who call themselves hardcore, I'd be willing to bet that in a group of 100 16 year old boys, only 10 of them had ever heard of the Dreamcast, let alone played one. Hardcore is something they like to call themselves- all it really means is that they sit in their basement most of the day on XBL playing Madden and COD.

    #5: Well I'd love for you to give me some reasons, or tell me what you think they would say. It had comparatively few online games compared to the original Xbox, it had graphics 3 or 4 times worse than most 6th gen consoles, it had very few worthwhile exclusives, and it only had one analog stick, IE: first person shooters were basically non-existent outside of Outrigger and Quake 3 (which were both a bitch to control mind you). Now don't think I'm beating up on the DC, because I'm not. As I said, it's a good console. I even bought a new one last year new for $80 because of the nostalgia factor it had for me. But, if I had to choose between a gamecube and 5 of its best games, or the dreamcast and all of its games, it would be the more purple of the two.

    #6: Mhm. Rather interesting actually. Lookup an attatchment called the "N64DD", it was a disc drive for the N64 that also had a built in modem which allowed players to connect to a service called "RANDnet", it was actually very similar to Sega Net in that it let people browse the web, check email, play games online, trade friend ID's, etc. It was a very advanced service, and was around a few years before DC came out. DC, contrary to popular belief, really didn't revolutionize online gaming, people just like to think it did.

    #7: No, I realize you were speaking in the past tense. I also, maybe not as obviously, was too. Okay, for awhile you had some pretty sick games on the DC, like PSO, Headhunter (though that came out later), Fur Fighters, SC, Sonic Adventure, etc. Good stuff. But you forget, by the time PS2 came out, DC was half way down the road to Screwedville and had far fewer capabilities than the PS2, not to mention a lot of awesome games were already launch titles for the PS2, like Timesplitters. Most of the best games on DC also got ported later, though I will admit for the sake of nostalgia, I believe that most of them have their home on the DC, but there are some exceptions. The point being, the only time the DC gave the PS2 a run for its money is when the PS2 didn't even exist. Within a year of the PS2's existance, it already had better graphics, better games, more features, and a larger fan base than the DC, which is why the DC failed.

    #8: Well, let's see...Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, Power Stone 2, Code Veronica, Marvel vs capcom 2, jet grind radio, shenmue, and skies of arcadia. I omit games like PSO and Ikaruga because much better, updated versions of those games were released almost right afterwards for other consoles, so getting them on the DC would be kind of pointless. The DC had some good games, but for the most part, they were strange, niche-titles that really only appealed to a small user base.

    #9: The Atari 2600 was a very successful console, it sold millions of units...But that aside, the DC failed partially because of Sega's incompetance, but also because Sony did a damn good job of convincing everyone that PS2 was the second coming of christ (though in my opinion, it is a mediocre console, but I can't deny that it has a broad appeal), and got people to believe they shouldn't buy a DC and instead wait for the PS2.

    #10: Not really, I mean after all, very little advertising and both of them are pretty hard games which mean they won't sell as well as shovelware. As for that advertising bit, if you notice, not many people read magazines anymore. They read stuff on the internet. It's been that way for years. Yes, SOTC had that viral advtertising campaign, but it didn't last very long and wasn't very widely known about. As for Ico, again, basically no advertising whatsoever.

    #11: They do, trust me. I bought a brand new copy for about 9.99 over at Shop Rite last month, quite a steal if I might add. The date of manufacture was listed as 2008, so even if they have stopped making it now, it wasn't more than a year or so ago they were still producing it, and who knows, maybe I just had an old copy. PS2 is still around, so as long as it is, they'll keep making games for people to buy for it. If you ask if they have new copies of some games for PS2 at Gamestop and whatnot, they usually have them under the counter in a drawr, but they never display them.

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