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  1. #71
    Got lifeboat? sremick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1foxbody
    massed produced?the cell is only in the ps3 so its not massed produced as you say.i dont understand where you get this from.
    I don't understand where you get your facts from. I quote:

    "Mercury Computer Systems has a dual Cell server, a dual Cell blade configuration, a rugged computer, and a PCI Express accelerator board available in different stages of production. Toshiba has announced plans to incorporate Cell in high definition television sets. Exotic features such as the XDR memory subsystem and coherent Element Interconnect Bus (EIB) interconnect appear to position Cell for future applications in the supercomputing space to exploit the Cell processor's prowess in floating point kernels. IBM has announced plans to incorporate Cell processors as add-on cards into IBM System z9 mainframes"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor

    The Cell processor is a joint project between Sony, Toshiba, and IBM. It is not just a PS3 thing, even if the PS3 was the first device to use it.
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  2. #72
    WiiChat Member ls1foxbody's Avatar
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    everything you JUST posted refers to the future not the present where yes your right there WILL be cell in those things and more but right now PS3 is only cell based ce device. as it says"in different stages of production" and "Toshiba has announced plans to incorporate Cell in high definition television sets" .so yes in the future you are right but right now sony's ps3 is it.everything you posted just made my point.all that is in the future .

  3. #73
    Got lifeboat? sremick's Avatar
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    Perhaps you don't understand what "mass produced" means. For companies like Mercury and IBM to already have products based upon the cell processor, someone's producing them "in mass" for general use.

    You obviously didn't read that site very carefully:

    "In the fall of 2006, IBM released the QS20 blade module using double Cell BE processors for tremendous performance in certain applications, reaching a peak of 410 gigaFLOPS per module. These modules are expected to be a part of the IBM Roadrunner supercomputer that will be operational in 2008. Mercury and IBM uses the fully utilized Cell processor with 8 active SPEs."

    So you have been able to buy computers using Cell CPUs since 2006. Want to buy one today?

    http://www.computers4sure.com/produc...ductid=5639969
    http://www.techdepot.com/pro/product...ductid=5639969
    http://www.colamco.com/store/product...product=650802

    More products:
    http://www.mc.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?...ELLS%20cell%20
    http://www.mc.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?...ELLS%20cell%20

    Seriously, don't go mouthing off about something you know nothing about. Admit you're wrong like a man and move on...
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  4. #74
    WiiChat Member ls1foxbody's Avatar
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    funny those links you posted are not the same CELL that is in the ps3 OWNEd!! FAILZ!!and id love to buy 1 but it seems they are all MYSTERIOUSLY out of stock on all the links you posted..hmmmmmmmmm..and who said i was a MAN?
    Last edited by ls1foxbody; 01-25-2008 at 06:10 PM.

  5. #75
    Guru of everything Ninty wezeles's Avatar
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    I dont think you understand, in manufacturing prototype isn't just the first single complete item made to show off at E3... they consider the launch of any electronics prototypes for the first 6 months to a year, becase assembly is a new concept aswell as the parts and tools to make the units... they do not know if something will need to be changed in the future because of a flaw that has yet to be found. Therfore its considered "prototype"

    And yes every part is unique that was my point. You have to understand for the plastic case they had to build a bunch of plastic injection tools to even make the case, these tools can cost 30,000 up into the millions easy per tool! look at a tear down of a ps3 how many individual plastic pieces does it have? now figure they have atleast 2 or more of each tool incase of damage or increase demand.. adds up quick... not to mention the million dollar machines these things run in.

    Then they need a tool to make each board and robots to install each part onto the board, and eventually down the line some human hands to put these all together... now granted the human aspect probably wont change much except maybe the amount needed to assemble a unit over time.. alot of times they will have say 8 people put an electronic item together, one for each part assembled at the "prototype stages" to make sure there are no errors.
    but over time they can drop that down to as low as 4 people doing 2 pieces each after assembly technic is perfected. Alot of times they have devices built to limit the chance of miss assembly in the future "see poke yoke"

    But this initial cost of building tools,R&D,trial and error never goes away it always effects overall profit and can only be shrunk down with acctual amounts of units sold not just making the parts cheeper... the second they come out with a new smaller version they affect overall manufacturing cost but they then have all new tools and the process starts over again... In manufacturing you have to balance all these different cost aspects and try to figure out how to be profitable... or in Sonys case how to break even....

    I've worked in enough manufacturing fields to know how it works, not just read geek weekly on Chip production... For a few years I work with building Bose Stereos and DVD players... Getting to play with there million dolalr tools and i can tell you exactly why they loose money for the first few years... Its not something i read about its something i did as a career...

    In my opinion a price drop is a dumb idea considering there current sales, but honestly they have to take the risk now or risk getting knocked out for good this round... Its not that they dont have the money to do it... Its the fact they keep burning it up like news paper, the second they even get a hint of profit they throw it away... Im glad im not a stock holder...

  6. #76
    Got lifeboat? sremick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1foxbody
    funnt those links you posted are not the same CELL that is in the ps3
    Actually, it is. Both use a Cell Broadband Engine (aka "Cell BE" aka "CBE") CPU. Both happen to run at 3.2GHz even. Maybe there's a slight iteration difference, but that's not what you claimed. You claimed: "the cell is only in the ps3 so its not massed produced". That's akin to claiming the Celeron M is only used in the Asus EEE PC... when actually many other things use the Celeron M. Even if they are different GHz (the one in the EEE is 900MHz) or editions, they are all "Celeron M" CPUs. Likewise, the Cell BE CPU is used in many things other than the PS3.

    At the moment, there only seems to be a single 3.2GHz CBE in production, although implementors (like Sony) are free to program the 8 SPEs on the die as they see fit.

    If you are so convinced that the PS3 has some other processor other than the 3.2GHz CBE, please show us evidence.

    OWNEd!! FAILZ!!
    Umm, ok.
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  7. #77
    WiiChat Member ls1foxbody's Avatar
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    if you think the cell in the ps3 is the same that is in those blades you must be crazzy.and how come your not refuting the other things i said i.e. 90 to 65nm = smaller = less power = cheaper...not because OMG IBM has put the cell in there server blades so all the sudden ps3 costs are cut in half..lmao thats a joke.

  8. #78
    Got lifeboat? sremick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls1foxbody
    if you think the cell in the ps3 is the same that is in those blades you must be crazzy.
    Yes, that's what I'm saying. I've shown evidence to prove it. What exactly do you have that suggests otherwise, besides your feelings?

    and how come your not refuting the other things i said i.e. 90 to 65nm = smaller = less power = cheaper
    Because I don't disagree with that. But that had nothing to do with what I was specifically talking about. You claimed nothing used a Cell CPU but the PS3 and that they weren't being "mass-produced". I showed you that other things have been using it since at least 2006. Besides going off on an immature emotional tirade, you have neither shown contrary evidence nor simply admitted your mistake.

    not because OMG IBM has put the cell in there server blades so all the sudden ps3 costs are cut in half..lmao thats a joke.
    Well, when did I say that? I wasn't referring to the cost-impact on the PS3 at all. Sony has their own special issues in that regard. Again, I was taking issue strictly with your incorrect statement that nothing used the Cell CPU except the PS3 and that they aren't being "mass produced". If you want to continue to argue other points with other people, fine... but you'd do well to accept you're wrong on this specific point and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Napalmbrain (Moderator)
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  9. #79
    WiiChat Member ls1foxbody's Avatar
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    ok im not gonna type all night but basically r&d covers testing process before production to catch any flaws,so as they wont have to change shit around and spend more money,second the plastic injection tools along with the robots,machines whatever else you want to call them are the same as the 1's from ps2 and other ce devices.they dont buy new shit every couple years they be stupid.only thing new is the molds for the plastic.i dont get how you think for every ce device they create they have to buy all new stuff,that would be a waste and insane .sorry

  10. #80
    Jedi master masterjedi's Avatar
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    Here's what it boils down to for me.

    The PS3 is simply too expensive. i understand that it's really a good deal for a Blu-ray player, and I understand that the graphics are amazing, and that the amount of information you can put into games is astounding, but none of that matters because the system costs too much. As soon as I heard that the PS3 was going to cost $600, I scratched it from my list. Add the fact that there haven't been a lot of games that I consider "must-haves" and there was no way I was buying a PS3.

    The 360 is a nice machine, but was also a little pricey when it launched. Then came the "red ring of death" syndrome and the 360 became an even more unpopular choice. I have three different friends who each had to replace their 360s at least once. One guy had to replace his twice. When Microsoft had to allocate over a billion dollars to fund replacement 360s, that was a huge red flag for me. And again, there weren't enough "must have" games on the system for me to justify taking the risk of buying it and then having it break.

    The Wii was perfectly priced. At $250 and a packed in game, it gave me the best bang for my buck when it launched. The control scheme wasn't really a selling point for me. I was curious to see if it worked, but at the time I didn't really have any ideas about how motion control would immerse me in my games more than standard controllers would. None of the launch games were "must haves" for me, but at $250, it didn't really matter. I figured I could find something in there that I liked. It all came down to price.

    Now that we're a full year into the "war" things have taken a definite shape. I think the Wii's momentum lasts until early next year. You only need 4-5 good/great games to get you through a year. For the consumer, that's a new game every 2-3 months which is plenty if you're an average gamer. Even your "hardcore" gamer isn't going to go buy two or three games in the same week that Halo 3 comes out because they're going to want to devote all their game time to Halo 3. Now if you look at the game lineup for the Wii this year, they've almost got those 4-5 games ready to go:

    Mario Kart Wii
    Wii Fit
    Super Smash Brothers Brawl

    All they need is for one or two more games that get released on their system this year to get good reviews or word of mouth, and their momentum for the duration of the year is saved. It won't matter if the PS3 and the 360 get their 4-5 titles as well, because they're still going to be playing catch-up. I believe the only way the Wii loses momentum is if they fail to produce 4-5 good/great titles per year or both the PS3 and the 360 lower their prices to either match or beat the price of the Wii.
    Last edited by masterjedi; 01-25-2008 at 08:12 PM.

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