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  1. #71
    WiiChat Member slurba's Avatar
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    Wait a second, you are saying the majority of hardcore gamers go to the graphically superior?

    Explain the PS2.

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  3. #72
    WiiChat Member shocktech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraductus
    i remember i time when i went to a videogame store and couldnt decide wich system to buy my friends would say buy the xbox or the gamecube or the playstation 2 all of them had theyr strong points others had superior graphics other had the best library and other were just the new kid on the block but all of them had almost the same price tag.

    so now i dont see the excuse of those skyrocketing prices graphics or no graphics it comes down to one thing....games
    the only reason i would buy a second platform console is to be able to play a game so out of this world that only is playable in another console or it has something so unique i have to have another console.....sure great graphic doesent hurts one ego but once u get past all the glitter and glamour all u can remember is how tough the game was how the game separated from other games how many times did u play the game even tought u finished it because it was just so damn cool or how many great endings did the game had to reward u for playng so damn long that u forgot what sleep is .

    that my friends is what a game is all about after a couple of days of playing the graphics goes into a second plane to gameplay and videogame content

    sure graphics are important its not like the Wii sports the graphics of a gigapet key chain but if we keep concentrating in graphics in the end we will have to purchase a videogame monster console that can power up at least 5 countries and the power of those power hungry consoles will leave us bald and unable to conceive children because of the radiation of those mega powerfull consoles
    in the end it will leaves us broke and have daily inspection of the U.N. in our room
    because of the nuclear threat.


    I think the whole nuclear threat thing is a bit too dramatic, don't you think?


    Nintendo basicly invented the controller that ps3 and 360 use today.


    Nope, the PS1 did.

  4. #73
    Junior Member nacional82's Avatar
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    Check this page, here Miyamoto explains why the machine is over $100
    The Big Ideas Behind Nintendo's Wii

  5. #74
    WiiChat Member JeremyDay's Avatar
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    Scholarship

    The original poster writes well and articulates "his" views well. Unfortunately, everything he has said about the Wii, it has been said before by someone else.

    In good scholarship, the writer adds to existing arguments or even comes up with a new one by examing two separate arguments.

    All I see here is the same old tired regurgitation of criticisms.

    I posted somewhere (not sure where) why graphics were not important after a certain level of realism.

    Cognitive film theory studies the effects of films on viewers. Why do we react to film as we would to similar situations in real life? Why do scary movies make us jump? Why do we cry when we witness a celluloid tragedy?

    Film is only 24 frames per second. It is blurry and has soft edges. The look of film is anything but realistic. So why does it affect us as if it were real? The answer is simple. It is close enough. We don't need 400 frames per second. We don't need to witness the actual event to be affected emotionally or physiologically by it.

    Having said this, viewers tend to prefer film over high definition. Filmmakers are always comparing HD with film. Which is better!? The argument continues. Many people say it is like apples and oranges. You can't compare the two.

    High definiton is sharp and real. The colors are vivid and life like. There may come a day (very soon) when HD is numerically superior to film. Will people still prefer film? What do you prefer: the look of a soap opera or the look of a film?

    As I am a filmmaker, I use the argument of cognitive film theory that graphics are unimportant after a certain level. Realism is . . . not necessarily better or efficient.

    Please add some new arguments or perspectives rather than vomiting out old criticisims and ideas.
    Last edited by JeremyDay; 11-16-2006 at 09:52 PM.

  6. #75
    WiiChat Member JeremyDay's Avatar
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    Also, I would like to add . . . the Wii allows for a $7 profit (or so). The other consoles lose money.

    I agree that the games should be less. I feel no anger towards a company for making a profit at the get go. If they do, they shouldn't try to make such a large profit on the games.

  7. #76
    Wii Maniac wiimaniac's Avatar
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    My reply

    The way I see this whole Wii (not WII Ken) situation is simple, basically comprised up of 4 ingredients: Gameplay, Zelda, price, and everything else is a bonus. You will see that graphics is not always the selling point in games, it's how the game is played, simple as that. Do graphics help? Sure, I would be lying if I didn't state that obvious fact, but it's never my main concern. Crap, I still play Diablo II for PC....why? Because the graphics are what I want in a RPG and the gameplay of D2 is second to none. Here is also something to think about, developers never really maximized the GC's potential, if they did with the Wii it would look PHENOMENAL, prolly better then most 360 games out today.

    Wiimaniac

  8. #77
    Wiisourceful jssmrkingrevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn
    I played the WII at Gamestop for about 30 minutes (excite truck) and based on that experience, along with the hundreds of screen shots, reviews starting to pour in, and the actual hardware specs now pretty much public, I must say that I'm extremely disappointed in Nintendo and the WII.

    First, on a positive note, Nintendo really hit the ball out of the park with the new controller scheme. I must say that it was VERY slick and does show some amazing promise to take console gaming in a new (and better IMHO) direction. Sadly, N left way too much on the table for this to be a long-term success.

    There are some critical flaws, here, that make me wonder if the WII will end up being a Dreamcast... Lots of potential but dying fairly quickly.

    The single biggest flaw is the hardware. Based on the specifications that I've seen and the numerous statements posted by developers and others, this is merely a sped-up gamecube. The Horsepower looks to be about 1.5x the current gamecube and one must keep in mind that some of the new horsepower will be required to manage the new controller interaction. Even if the new controller system uses zero overhead, we're still only talking about CPU, GPU, and memory that are very similar to the original XBOX. Sadly disappointing. I would have expected N to produce hardware that was at least halfway between a ps2 and ps3 or 2/3 of the way from the XBOX to the 360. The Xbox, for example, was a 733Mhz CPU or so. The 360 is a 3.2 Gigahertz multi-core processor. I'd certainly think that a dual core 1+ Ghz or 2+ gigahertz single core CPU would have been more in order here. Same goes for the GPU... It should certainly have much healthier texturing capabilities than it does. The (slightly) stronger GPU will help some, but textured surfaces will continue to be flat and polygon counts will continue to be quite low for WII games. (note that every round or cylindrical object on the WII demos is a low-polygon shape. This is a clear indication of the lack of polygon-pushing-prowess) All of this said, there won't be a "revolution" in the quality of games in the next year that many keep saying will happen. This is because the development platform for the WII is a tweaked Gamecube and is quite mature. Pretty much everything is known and it will just be a matter of maximizing texture, polygon count, framerate, resolution, etc. for each specific game based on the ability to push a few more polygons. Nothing new here. No new co-processors or special chips designed to help the CPU/GPU by offloading some heavy number crunching tasks...

    The second major issue which is strongly correlated to the first, is pricing. Given the very marginal bump in hardware performance, the Price of $250 is simply ridiculous. The GameCube can be had for 79 dollars at retail and that is presumably profitable or at least breakeven for Nintendo. Given that, I can't see where this box should have been priced more than $179 or maybe $199 as a stretch. At $250, this box should be a helluva lot closer to the X360 in terms of raw computing power! To add insult to injury, the cost of a wii-mote plus a nunchuck runs, what, 69.95 per unit? Four players will be costly indeed!

    In addition to the WII hardware price point, the games are listed, at the moment, as a $49.95 price point -- this stated by Nintendo as their goal to keep their games $10 cheaper than PS3 and X360. Unfortunately, the games aren't going to be that much better graphically and I personally don't want to pay $50 bucks for last-gen presentation. I'll admit the WII-Mote adds some value, but twice the price? There are a LOT of GC games out there that are $19.95 and the premium titles like Star Wars Lego II are $39.95. Given that a Gamecube will be close in terms of graphics quality, I suspect that many, like myself, will just stick with the GC for family games and see how the WII plays out over the next year. I suspect the WII will have a $149 price point by next Christmas as people begin to realize the unit, graphically, is already hitting a wall. Nintendo is really going to be in a pickle when the Xbox 360 price comes down in line as they'll have to drop their price and many will be angered by having to pay such a high price for the unit at launch only to see the price drop rather significantly less than a year later.

    Given all this, I do love a whole lot about what Nintendo does. They have a library second to NONE for family and younger kids entertainment. There is no substitute for the Big N when it comes to family/party games and games for younger kids, period.

    IMO, Nintendo SHOULD have designed the WII-mote system for the GC and launched it as an accessory with a pack-in (wii sports) and Zelda. They could refine the technology and then release the WII as a closer to next-gen console next Christmas and maintain backward compatiblity including the wii-motes so the cost was a new console only.

    One last thought: Given the desire for N to appeal to mass audiences with the WII, grabbing adult and hardcore gamers (in addition to family/kids) is a must. Adults and hardcore gamers love complex sports and deep, graphically-rich FPS games. This is fact... The WII simply doesn't have the graphical horsepower to provide enough graphical pleasantry to attract that core group and hence, the WII is going to be relegated to the same place the Gamecube is: Family/Party games and kids games. Hardcore gamers won't be showing up for the party and once again, Nintendo will have a fringe console that relies very heavily on 1st person licenses.

    Feel free to disagree, but please provide a legitimate reason where my reasoning is flawed and offer an intelligent counter.
    I do disagree and I do think my reason is legit. First I would like to say I admire your constructive criticism of the Wii in its graphical power relative to other consoles (whichever you choose to compare it to) and I agree that, although the Wii is clearly graphically superior to the Gamecube I would've expected at least a little more punch from Nintendo, though I have to say that I do not play games for the graphics with exceptions in 2 areas, racing and sports. And while I'm not a really big sports gamer anyways, the Wii still offers me enough graphical power to have good looking racing games. I'll admit that higher quality graphics do enhance the gaming experience. But then again, as far as graphics go I don't have an HDTV anyways. Which brings up my point: The Nintendo Wii will not follow the path of the GC, and CERTAINLY NOT the DC simply because of the gamin interaction capabilities unlocked by the unique controler, and the doors opened once again to new ideas involving the motion sensing capabilities of the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo. "Hard" "Core" "Gamers," whatever that means, aren't neccisarily looking for better graphics introduced to the same games they've been playing for years(on the same controller *coughps3cough*). Innovation will take the Wii far, and whats more the non-gaming functions of the Wii, taking for example Wii Messaging and Opera Browser, will make it a welcome addition into many entertainment centers. And while it is obvious enough, the old cartriges themselves cannot be played via Wii, VC really opens the doors to backwards compatibility and replay value.

    Anyway I think thats about all I have to say about that. Good post though.
    I got Wii'd on 11-19-06

    In the water Temple 11-21-06

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    Stay Hii

  9. #78
    ₪ ۩ ₪ vagrant's Avatar
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    If your going to buy a wii, then your going to buy a wii, if you aren't, you aren't. Yet, what boggles my mind...is why do people who seem to have little interest in it....invest so much time into talking about it. I know there are plenty of ps3 forums. ps3 and wii should not be compared. Yes the ps3 has better graphics. It also costs over twice as much.

    like I have said many times, if you are so keen on graphics, then why not just pc game? I'm a PC gamer mostly, and with how fast gpu's update now, and with directx 10 coming, I really see no need to buy a ps3 because it looks nicer. It looking nicer isn't personally going to make me enjoy it better. I actually have the ability to differentiate between reality and game. So no matter how good the graphics are, it's not real. So obviously I am going to the wii because it is so much more interactive, and different.

    I applaud those folks who even with the next gen of consoles out will still be playing there xbox ps2 and gamecube. Because those people truly understand that it is about the games. But making arguments against the wii on a wii forum is going to cause conflict. We are buying a wii because we want to play a wii. If you don't want to, then don't buy one. Just learn to understand people buy/do things for different reasons.

  10. #79
    WiiChat Member m7ticalm's Avatar
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    Pfft, who cares if Wii is at the same level as the cube? Im sure its not and even if it is, who cares? Its all about gameplay isnt it? And Kenn did mention that the controller was good..... Last time i checked, GCN had like NO loading time. It was so quick.

  11. #80
    WiiChat Member yuzi87's Avatar
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    *start rant*
    ARRGGH!! all this talk about the wii's graphics dont compare to 360 or ps3

    GET IT IN YOUR HEAD the wii isnt about graphics its about advancing in gameplay

    so saying its graphics are bad is wasting your time! its like buying a fat free packet of crisps and saying these are rubbish the other crisps have more fat,
    dont like the fat free then dont bloody buy them!!! get a fat inducing heart clog of a ps3

    you get what you pay for, in this case you get a very small energy efficiant sleek looking games console with motion sensing technology,

    people say graphics is an advancment, well to me if i saw someone playing a racing game on ps3 and then i saw someone moving around a wii-mote using the pointer, i know which looks more advanced and fun!

    now nintendo planned to make the wii a $100 machine originally, but the cost of the motion technology pushed the price up, now lets suppose nintendo made the wii equal power to the xbox 360 imagine the price for the motion tech and the powerful components, it would prob be around ps3 price and then everyone would be like nintendo sucks making to powerful machine n putting price up we dont need all that power,

    so now u have 3 powerful consoles that not everyone can afford and so loads of people miss out.

    nintendo isnt stupid they have been around a long time, now imagine when sony and ms get to the point where they are so big (prob size of a small fridge lol)and powerful that the graphics just cant get better where do they go then?

    ill tell you where they will try and improve control methods, but oh look nintendo started doing that years ago and now nintendo has not only perfected the controls but now its graphics are catching up with the big boys.

    people where perfectly happy playing there decent games on gc, ps2 and xbox a couple years ago and the wii is more powerful than the gc so the graphics are going to improve and will improve as developers make the most of the hardware

    so stop moaning! if you want innovative gameplay a small energy reducing sweet looking console go for the wii,
    if you want graphical content then get a good electric supplier and go for a 360 or worse ps3
    and if your a rich bastard then buy all 3
    *end rant*

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