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  1. #1
    WiiChat Member kenn's Avatar
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    I'm extremely disappointed in the WII

    I played the WII at Gamestop for about 30 minutes (excite truck) and based on that experience, along with the hundreds of screen shots, reviews starting to pour in, and the actual hardware specs now pretty much public, I must say that I'm extremely disappointed in Nintendo and the WII.

    First, on a positive note, Nintendo really hit the ball out of the park with the new controller scheme. I must say that it was VERY slick and does show some amazing promise to take console gaming in a new (and better IMHO) direction. Sadly, N left way too much on the table for this to be a long-term success.

    There are some critical flaws, here, that make me wonder if the WII will end up being a Dreamcast... Lots of potential but dying fairly quickly.

    The single biggest flaw is the hardware. Based on the specifications that I've seen and the numerous statements posted by developers and others, this is merely a sped-up gamecube. The Horsepower looks to be about 1.5x the current gamecube and one must keep in mind that some of the new horsepower will be required to manage the new controller interaction. Even if the new controller system uses zero overhead, we're still only talking about CPU, GPU, and memory that are very similar to the original XBOX. Sadly disappointing. I would have expected N to produce hardware that was at least halfway between a ps2 and ps3 or 2/3 of the way from the XBOX to the 360. The Xbox, for example, was a 733Mhz CPU or so. The 360 is a 3.2 Gigahertz multi-core processor. I'd certainly think that a dual core 1+ Ghz or 2+ gigahertz single core CPU would have been more in order here. Same goes for the GPU... It should certainly have much healthier texturing capabilities than it does. The (slightly) stronger GPU will help some, but textured surfaces will continue to be flat and polygon counts will continue to be quite low for WII games. (note that every round or cylindrical object on the WII demos is a low-polygon shape. This is a clear indication of the lack of polygon-pushing-prowess) All of this said, there won't be a "revolution" in the quality of games in the next year that many keep saying will happen. This is because the development platform for the WII is a tweaked Gamecube and is quite mature. Pretty much everything is known and it will just be a matter of maximizing texture, polygon count, framerate, resolution, etc. for each specific game based on the ability to push a few more polygons. Nothing new here. No new co-processors or special chips designed to help the CPU/GPU by offloading some heavy number crunching tasks...

    The second major issue which is strongly correlated to the first, is pricing. Given the very marginal bump in hardware performance, the Price of $250 is simply ridiculous. The GameCube can be had for 79 dollars at retail and that is presumably profitable or at least breakeven for Nintendo. Given that, I can't see where this box should have been priced more than $179 or maybe $199 as a stretch. At $250, this box should be a helluva lot closer to the X360 in terms of raw computing power! To add insult to injury, the cost of a wii-mote plus a nunchuck runs, what, 69.95 per unit? Four players will be costly indeed!

    In addition to the WII hardware price point, the games are listed, at the moment, as a $49.95 price point -- this stated by Nintendo as their goal to keep their games $10 cheaper than PS3 and X360. Unfortunately, the games aren't going to be that much better graphically and I personally don't want to pay $50 bucks for last-gen presentation. I'll admit the WII-Mote adds some value, but twice the price? There are a LOT of GC games out there that are $19.95 and the premium titles like Star Wars Lego II are $39.95. Given that a Gamecube will be close in terms of graphics quality, I suspect that many, like myself, will just stick with the GC for family games and see how the WII plays out over the next year. I suspect the WII will have a $149 price point by next Christmas as people begin to realize the unit, graphically, is already hitting a wall. Nintendo is really going to be in a pickle when the Xbox 360 price comes down in line as they'll have to drop their price and many will be angered by having to pay such a high price for the unit at launch only to see the price drop rather significantly less than a year later.

    Given all this, I do love a whole lot about what Nintendo does. They have a library second to NONE for family and younger kids entertainment. There is no substitute for the Big N when it comes to family/party games and games for younger kids, period.

    IMO, Nintendo SHOULD have designed the WII-mote system for the GC and launched it as an accessory with a pack-in (wii sports) and Zelda. They could refine the technology and then release the WII as a closer to next-gen console next Christmas and maintain backward compatiblity including the wii-motes so the cost was a new console only.

    One last thought: Given the desire for N to appeal to mass audiences with the WII, grabbing adult and hardcore gamers (in addition to family/kids) is a must. Adults and hardcore gamers love complex sports and deep, graphically-rich FPS games. This is fact... The WII simply doesn't have the graphical horsepower to provide enough graphical pleasantry to attract that core group and hence, the WII is going to be relegated to the same place the Gamecube is: Family/Party games and kids games. Hardcore gamers won't be showing up for the party and once again, Nintendo will have a fringe console that relies very heavily on 1st person licenses.

    Feel free to disagree, but please provide a legitimate reason where my reasoning is flawed and offer an intelligent counter.

  2. #2
    the guy below- HES BACK!! Wiitime's Avatar
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    Strong post, but i have read so many other reviews from ign, and people on this board who have played the wii. All of them have been good. Ign has somedowners but nothing awful. To me, i still think it sounds great and plan on getting it.. Sorry you didnt enjoy it

  3. #3
    WiiChat Member NintendoKing's Avatar
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    Im sorry you didnt enjoy it but im kind of pleased someone dosent like it and give it 10/10 gives you another insight.

  4. #4
    '';aM;'' Inspire Inspire's Avatar
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    The clockspeed of the main processor is almost twice that of the GC. The GPU is a revised architecture, as well - expecting it to scale linearly doesn't really hold water.

    The GC launched at $200. Since production process evolve over time, this eventually dropped to $100. This phenomenon happens with every peice of computing hardware. Same thing should happen with the Wii.

    Multi-threaded development is slow and expensive. N wanted to counter this by keeping the console single-threaded. $50 may still be too much for some games, though, I agree. As for complex sports - I'm looking forward to Madden '07 on the Wii - I don't see how you can't say it's not complex...

    I have to disagree on N being limited to 1st party games, though. I think 3rd party devs will see the innovation and the relative ease with which they can make games for the Wii versus the other consoles and try to get around the graphical 'limitations'.

    All that being said, if N doesn't go multi-core by their next gen, expect them to lose big time. Innovation will carry you only so far.

    That's all I can say - other than that, you made a well-thought-out post.

  5. #5
    WiiChat Member xaviermacx's Avatar
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    You have decent points, except for the one about the price. You haven't considered the fact that the technology in the controller costs a lot more, you only looked at the system itself. $250 is more than a fair price and to say that they could have powered it up more at that price point is ridiculous.

  6. #6
    WiiChat Member kenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspire
    The clockspeed of the main processor is almost twice that of the GC. The GPU is a revised architecture, as well - expecting it to scale linearly doesn't really hold water.
    As I understand it, there are release technical drawings/specs on the new CPU showing it as a reduced die-size and power consumption but other than those items, plus the increased clock speed, there isn't much difference. I could be wrong, of course, but if that is indeed true I would say that incresed processing will be LESS than linear. Increases in clock speed on a P4 from say 1 to 1.2Ghz, and all else equal, have historically not provided a "20 percent" increase in overall computing as the overall architecture of the chip, the connection to the bus, etc., are major factors. Revolutions in speed have come from new bus design, new core design, faster on-die cache, new computing algorithms, etc. Maybe there is more there than has been divulged, but I'm suspect that isn't the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspire
    The GC launched at $200. Since production process evolve over time, this eventually dropped to $100. This phenomenon happens with every peice of computing hardware. Same thing should happen with the Wii.
    Thanks for that piece of data. I was unaware the GC launched at $200. I thought is was less. Given, though, that the hardware is a"renovated" GC platform, I'd expect some significant cost savings. That said, Nintendo put 2+ years in dev on the controller scheme and they have to get that money back ASAP in case the unit flops. I certainly understand their pricing, but don't agree with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspire
    Madden '07 on the Wii - I don't see how you can't say it's not complex...
    Complex, yes, graphically impressive -- not really. That's a big loss for hard-core gamers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inspire
    All that being said, if N doesn't go multi-core by their next gen, expect them to lose big time. Innovation will carry you only so far.
    Absolutely agree. A nintendo library of family entertainment, party, kids, AND the ability to compete presentation-wise with the latest generation is a winning combination in my opinion.

    Thanks for the reply...

    Ken

  7. #7
    WiiChat Member epikon's Avatar
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    good post. however i personally think that almost all of it is based around the graphical element of the wii. I personally dont care about the graphic. my pc rig tears apart the 360 and ps3. if i want to play a game with good graphic ill play on my pc. i have pre-ordered the wii for 2 reasons. the remote and game play. in your post you stated yourself that the controls are nice. and with titles such as red steel zelda etc i have no worries. as long as the wii keep on brining out a fair amount of T and M rated games i will be happy. good post but remember you've played one game (which i think is a poor game anyway) for 30 mins.

    edit:

    i am/used to be a hardcore gamer, playing fps' competively at a fairly high level. and i tell you games are not about graphic. me and almost all the players i played with on cod used configs to reduce our graphic to the bare minimun so our fps can be as high as possible. i did this for months. i played cod on graphics that made it look worse than half life 1....out of all the games ive played, and thats ALOT even the new games with graphic better than a 360 or ps3 no game comes close to the enjoyment i had from cod.
    Last edited by epikon; 11-16-2006 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #8
    WiiChat Member kenn's Avatar
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    Let me also add, that I'm not a hater. I really do want to see Nintendo successful because there are games for the console that I can't get anywhere else that are fun for my daughter and wife. I'd love to see the Wii sell 50 million units worldwide so the 3rd party CAN'T ignore the platform. I just think they have made a few critical mistakes that are going to prevent it from happening. I'll buy a WII -- just not at the $250 price point plus another 200-250 for four Wii-Motes/Nunchucks. I'll wait for a price drop, pick it up, and get rid of my daughters GC console since I'll still be able to use everything else.

  9. #9
    ₪ ۩ ₪ vagrant's Avatar
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    Weak post.

    Seeing as how you used fakefanboy terminology like "horsepower," makes it pretty evident that your argument is based off of something you read. Probably some lame gaming sites review, or off a playstation forum.

    Nintendo wii will sell shitloads. And everyone will shutup about the wii once they realized how hard it dominated.

  10. #10
    11.19.06 tuned's Avatar
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    Well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by epikon
    good post. however i personally think that almost all of it is based around the graphical element of the wii. I personally dont care about the graphic. my pc rig tears apart the 360 and ps3. if i want to play a game with good graphic ill play on my pc. i have pre-ordered the wii for 2 reasons. the remote and game play. in your post you stated yourself that the controls are nice. and with titles such as red steel zelda etc i have no worries. as long as the wii keep on brining out a fair amount of T and M rated games i will be happy. good post but remember you've played one game (which i think is a poor game anyway) for 30 mins.

    edit:

    i am/used to be a hardcore gamer, playing fps' competively at a fairly high level. and i tell you games are not about graphic. me and almost all the players i played with on cod used configs to reduce our graphic to the bare minimun so our fps can be as high as possible. i did this for months. i played cod on graphics that made it look worse than half life 1....out of all the games ive played, and thats ALOT even the new games with graphic better than a 360 or ps3 no game comes close to the enjoyment i had from cod.
    WiiSports (obviously) / Redsteel / Excite Truck / TC:SO / Rayman RR / Wii Play / Sonic and the Secret Rings / Mad Catz Skinz

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