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  1. #41
    Chillin in the Mill Ezekiel86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat
    Perhaps you should shut up and stop being a "whiny bitch." No one is whining here; some just aren't old enough and they're frustrated. I don't know why I've had to point this out twice and just to say, I'm turning 18 in September, so it's not a problem for me. Also, I know that there are also a lot of strippers and prostitutes that go willingly into what they do, but you obviously don't realize that there are even more strippers and prostitutes that are forced into or born into their profession in many third world countries; I know, I did a paper on it.
    ... And you really think thats the worst of problems in the third world? I admit it is bad but look at what else is going down in the third world: mass murder, corruption, lack of proper resources and education. Problems in the world reach much further than that my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Oh boy, where do I start? First, strippers will say their just fine and dandy stripping almost anytime you ask them. Why? Because they have confidence issues and need to feel wanted by losers who go to strip clubs. I call them losers because they obviously are too fat, ugly, unintelligent and or disgusting to get a REAL girlfriend! People who think peep shows are a good time really deserve to be shot because a)while they say it's not that bad, they themselves would NEVER get up on stage and do it b)they generally think the strippers actually like them when really, they just want money and c) if it were their mother or sister or daughter up on stage, they probably beat up every guy in the place.
    Confidence issues? I disagree. Some just love the attention. Need to feel wanted? wouldn't that involve taking things a step further and actually sleeping with them? I would think so but I dont know how many actually would.. None I hope because I do agree with you that there are probably alot of really seedy old dudes hangin around at places like that (Hell I get enough old dirtbag men comin thru at the supermarket I work at; Before I cut my long hair off I had my back to the till and some old dude rocked up with his trolley, when I turn around he sees I'm really a guy and quickly dashes to the girl working opposite me = SEEDY ). Unfortunately that is the kind of place the world is today. We no longer live in the wholesome era of the 40's and 50's. The world as it was is a far cry from todays world; riddled with sex, drugs, violence and crime.

    What makes you so sure I dont have a real girlfriend? I just might. Well I would if she didn't live 3 hours away Do you have a girlfriend Nate? Its wrong to make generalisations, although there probably are a few that get off on it, I find its more just humerous to see, especially the voice actors for such characters (I'm pretty sure the p*rn star in Vice City was voiced by Jenna Jameson) usually put a humerous spin on things.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Next, you say sex is everywhere now. I agree and it's pretty sad because everyone's so superficial now and all they want is a one night stand which leads to unwanted pregnancies which leads to either abortions (I'm pro choice but not as a form of birth control like the pill; should be used as a last resort) unwanted children that grow up unappreciated or are put in the horrible foster care system where they are abused and neglected. Of course, if your like a lot of assholes out there, you don't give a damn because you think birth control is up to the woman which it is:50%. Men have the other 50% but they only use a condom like 20% of the time. Also, all this meaningless sex helps continue the spread of AIDS which kills millions every year, which causes taxes to rise on everything, making it harder for people to make a living so they steal, sell drugs, or do something degrading like...become a stripper; a comes around, full circle.
    I'm not sure what kind of personal background you have on this issue, nor the social context from which you back this view, but you sound like you live in a very religious community, of what religion I am not sure.

    I can assure you I am all too familiar with unwanted pregnancies. Its a huge problem with the indidginous population here (as most of them in question use pregnancy as a means to the government "baby bonus" cash and further social security) and if that wasn't bad enough just about every West Australian would have heard of the Hall's Creek, a mostly indidginous community where children as young as 6 months are treated for STDs. Its a sick, sick place.

    Are you implying I'm one of the assholes? I dont believe I am. I'm all for keeping it safe and I wouldn't try to do anything which could jeopardise that. Spreads AIDS? I dont know where you live but AIDS is almost non existant here (minus some from the few visitors to South Africa, no racist intended ). Stealing? Drugs? those come from a bad upbringing man, not because of inflation, STDs and liberal attitudes towards sex. Basically, my motto is its okay as long as no ones getting hurt. If its something you enjoy, and you're not hurting anyone, including yourself doing it, then do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Sort of as a side note, neither Scarface, nor the Godfather movies, which were extremly violent and gory had strippers; real gangsters don't waste their time and money on that, not that I'm a gangster or anything. So, why should it be in Red Steel? You say a "bit of flesh" but it's not just a glimpse of a leg or even the DOA girls. In that picture is full on nudity, yet it's not a real girl. This really appeals to you. Seriously, you need a counselor if you like that stuff.
    Appealing? Why would you fight for this issue so fervently? Who cares, real t*ts, polygonal t*ts who cares, it might not be real but that doesn't mean it can't look good. I'd almost believe it was you who is in denial about finding this sort of thing appealing. Did you not play God of War? That game had gratuitous toplessness, sexual references (anyone with even the blandest imagination could have worked out what was going on in that bed on the ship) and over the top gore, and its one of the most popular PS2 games to date. What's wrong with Nintendo having a game like this? Alot of girls I know find sexual elements in games amusing, and if they can take these sort of issues so light heartedly, why can't we? Hell, straight girls I know gawk over some of the girls from Soul Calibre.


    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Now, I would like to agree with you on the point about tooooooooo many kids games. Yes, I'm sick of the bubble gum themed worlds aswell. That said, I'm tired of all the breast physics. Half-life 2, Halo, and even GTA; none of these have nudity (GTA has hookers but they don't really do anything). I want more mature material, intricate storylines, intelligent character (maybe a girl character that's not all about body) and of course gameplay. I just feel Ubisoft is putting this stuff in not to illustrate the seedy world your in, but instead to get press. I also agree here as I did before that these politicians need to get a grip on where this stuff is really off the wall, like on the internet. Gosh, this stuff is just child's play, no pun intended, compared to what can be found through a simple google search, but instead they go after videogames because they think were a bunch of 12 year olds (oh, and quit hating on little kids. I hate it when people say "I hate little kids!!" Give me a break, you were one too at one time. It's the parent's fault if the kid is whiny, but no one here is whining are they?)

    So, do you understand where I'm coming from now? I'm not saying it's any better or worse than nudity on TV or the internet. I'm trying to say that when people get a real girlfriend that really means something to them, this excess nudity is just annoying and it actually makes me feel like I'm playing something some prepubesant 12 year old thought up.

    I'm really glad this discussion is going on.
    I don't believe I stated that all games need sex to be good. Infact some of the best games ever didn't even come close to having anything remotely sexual in them (unless you're turned on by an impaled, twitching corpse on a pike or a chained body blown in half over a pentagram) like the old DOOM games.

    In case you didn't play GTA: Vice City it came pretty damn close to having nudity in it. The waitress at the bar was topless with only small tassel-thingies covering her n*pples. Additionally you could visit the strip club and get a private dance in a room. While the girl was clothed (barely) the dance didn't leave much to the imagination.

    I'm all for more mature material, but I don't believe a bit of nudity here and there warrants such an uproar from the gaming community, does it really matter that much? I know the politicians think so but we're smarter than that, and they obviously don't have any respect for the gaming demographic. As for a girlfriend, I dont think that would change anything man, what you like and what you don't wont suddenly change or go away just because you're with a girl (if your values are that weak you're probably the kind who would change everything about themself just to make themselves appear more attractive to the girl, even moreso, abandom gaming cuz she doesn't like it *shock*).

    Damn.. its been one helluvan argument. It's good to see this thread's still so active

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  3. #42
    WiiChat Member Supermariomp3's Avatar
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    Can't other things make a game mature besides sex, nudity, and violence (we see this every day on the internet, TV, and even in real life) like the story (sometimes its complicated for young people to understand the story), or where you have to go in the game (young people get lost in these types of mature games all the time), or maybe even the fact that there is logic in the game that is impossible for young people to understand . On the mature game logo I would like to see more complicated story, map, and requires advance thinking than strong language, sex, and nudity. I hope you guys agree with me.

  4. #43
    Only took 4 years to get1 MetroidZ's Avatar
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    yeh, i do, but what if not everyone is so bright, u can get a smart child and a dumb adult. but generally, i would agree with u.

  5. #44
    The Master ?!?!?!?!!?!?!? Jamma's Avatar
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    Exactly its like those sony fanboys who say zelda and mario games are baby games wtf there some of the toughest games I've ever played I finished devil may cry in like a week or less but I was stumped on ocerina of time for ages

  6. #45
    prez , you suck :p in touch with the wii's Avatar
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    its because sony cant be bothered with hard puzzles all the time

  7. #46
    Only took 4 years to get1 MetroidZ's Avatar
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    the riddles are what makes exploring in zelda games so good.

  8. #47
    Pondering Member NateTheGreat's Avatar
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    Reply to Ezekiel86

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    ... And you really think thats the worst of problems in the third world? I admit it is bad but look at what else is going down in the third world: mass murder, corruption, lack of proper resources and education. Problems in the world reach much further than that my friend.
    I didn't say they didn't. I know there are many horrible acts that go on in third world countries, but children as young as you can imagine being sold into the child sex trade is at the top for me. Killing someone is a horrible thing; a life is lost and everyone who loved them become extremly depressed. Then there's being cut by someone with a knife or beaten with a baseball bat, which would be seriously scary, painful, and scaring. But, sexual abuse is like killing someone without letting them die. I could take some knocks to the head with a bat or some deep knife wounds, but just imagine what it would be like if the creepist man in the world pushed you up against a wall, fondled and then raped you? I've fortunatly never had this happen to me, but it did happen to my cousin and she's delt with that pain ever since. Now what if you had to do that as your job 24/7 365 and you didn't have a choice because otherwise you would be beat and killed?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    Confidence issues? I disagree. Some just love the attention. Need to feel wanted? wouldn't that involve taking things a step further and actually sleeping with them? I would think so but I dont know how many actually would.. None I hope because I do agree with you that there are probably alot of really seedy old dudes hangin around at places like that (Hell I get enough old dirtbag men comin thru at the supermarket I work at; Before I cut my long hair off I had my back to the till and some old dude rocked up with his trolley, when I turn around he sees I'm really a guy and quickly dashes to the girl working opposite me = SEEDY ).
    Yes, that's what I was trying to say; they feel the need for attention and think they can easily get it from seedy guys like the one you described. It's usually because their parents never gave them attention when they were young, so they'll do what they can to feel wanted, but they don't have to sleep with their customers; they want to be admired, but not worry about STDs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    Unfortunately that is the kind of place the world is today. We no longer live in the wholesome era of the 40's and 50's. The world as it was is a far cry from todays world; riddled with sex, drugs, violence and crime.
    Yes the world has changed from those days thank goodness. I know, you probably didn't expect me to say that, but I'm glad the world has changed because back in the 40's and 50's, African-Americans and women's rights were nonexsistant and things like certain styles of sex were illigal. While I'm glad rights are more equal today than then, we've sort of gone back in time now. This is because in the 70's women really fought for rights and to not be considered just a piece of meat for men to look at and use. Now, we have what I call female chauvenist pigs. These women will say they love things like porn and stripping just so they can get attention, like I said before and of course a large number of men are all for this because they don't care about actually forming a halfway meaningful relationship, they just want to get some (I hate that term by the way; dumb jocks at my school say it all the time and I seriously want to break their faces).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    What makes you so sure I dont have a real girlfriend? I just might. Well I would if she didn't live 3 hours away Do you have a girlfriend Nate? Its wrong to make generalisations, although there probably are a few that get off on it, I find its more just humerous to see, especially the voice actors for such characters (I'm pretty sure the p*rn star in Vice City was voiced by Jenna Jameson) usually put a humerous spin on things.
    Sorry, I never meant to imply that you don't have a girlfriend and I don't have a girlfriend either, but like you there is a girl I would like to go out with, but I haven't yet because I didn't really realize how much I liked her until this summer. She had just split up with her jerk boyfriend and that same night, no kidding, she gave me her number and I've had a few conversations with her and she's invited me to lunch; I just talked to her for 4 hours last night = the longest but greatest conversation I've ever had.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    I'm not sure what kind of personal background you have on this issue, nor the social context from which you back this view, but you sound like you live in a very religious community, of what religion I am not sure.
    No no no! Actually, when I read your name, I thought you were a Jesus freak because Ezkiel is as far as I know mentioned in the bible. I said this in another post, I think in the Official Photo Album thread, but I'll say it again: I am not for or against religion. I went to church one day when I was a little kid and said I didn't want to go back and we never did and I'm glad. Religion in my opinion has caused more hurt than help. So many people die in the Middle East today in some stupid holy war! The whole concept of religion was really in the beginning to keep the poor people poor and the rich people rich and to convince people that they were meant to be in the social class they were in and if you didn't then you were condemed to hell. Since people weren't educated in science and all, they somewhat believed it, but really, they didn't have a choice; it was off with their heads if they didn't believe. Some might try to label me as an Atheist but Atheisim is really a religion too because they believe when you die, it's done and there's nothing you're just a non-feeling, non-thinking being. I sort of hope reincarnation exists because then life would be endless, yet perhaps you wouldn't know you were reincarnated so it doesn't feel like "oh, I have to live through a whole other life?" To be completly honest though, I don't waste my time thinking about how death is going to be and what does/doesn't follow it; mystery is good sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    I can assure you I am all too familiar with unwanted pregnancies. Its a huge problem with the indidginous population here (as most of them in question use pregnancy as a means to the government "baby bonus" cash and further social security) and if that wasn't bad enough just about every West Australian would have heard of the Hall's Creek, a mostly indidginous community where children as young as 6 months are treated for STDs. Its a sick, sick place.
    That's a pitty. Why do people always pray on kids? I know they're easy targets but it's so sad.
    Last edited by NateTheGreat; 08-14-2006 at 06:16 PM.
    "Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it." - GANDHI


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  9. #48
    Pondering Member NateTheGreat's Avatar
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    Reply to Ezekiel86 continued...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    Are you implying I'm one of the assholes? I dont believe I am. I'm all for keeping it safe and I wouldn't try to do anything which could jeopardise that. Spreads AIDS? I dont know where you live but AIDS is almost non existant here (minus some from the few visitors to South Africa, no racist intended ). Stealing? Drugs? those come from a bad upbringing man, not because of inflation, STDs and liberal attitudes towards sex. Basically, my motto is its okay as long as no ones getting hurt. If its something you enjoy, and you're not hurting anyone, including yourself doing it, then do it.
    No, I definitly don't think you're one of those assholes; if you were I would make sure you got banned from this site ASAP.

    I live in America, so AIDS is a major problem here aswell as countries like Africa.

    What I was trying to illustrate is that when people have anonymous sex or sex with a prostitute, they spread AIDS which causes the death rate to rise which then causes taxes to rise (not that I care about the taxes but I'm just showing how this affects everyone) which makes getting things like food difficult, so some turn to...selling themselves to be able to support their kids if they have them and/or paying bills. So, it's this endless cycle and when porn stars show their stuff for money, women (pornstars or not) are seen and treated more and more like a sexual object instead of the people they truly are and deserve to be treated as.

    I agree with your moto that if there's something that makes you feel good and you're not hurting anyone directly (like physically hurting someone) or indirectly (like watching teen porn), then by all means, do it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    Appealing? Why would you fight for this issue so fervently? Who cares, real t*ts, polygonal t*ts who cares, it might not be real but that doesn't mean it can't look good. I'd almost believe it was you who is in denial about finding this sort of thing appealing.
    There's a difference between appealing and just geting turned on. Sure, I've seen the girls from DOA and of course I get turned on but that doesn't mean I go looking for it or want to see it; I finish a fight and then suddenly they just put up some stupid character video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    Did you not play God of War? That game had gratuitous toplessness, sexual references (anyone with even the blandest imagination could have worked out what was going on in that bed on the ship) and over the top gore, and its one of the most popular PS2 games to date. What's wrong with Nintendo having a game like this? Alot of girls I know find sexual elements in games amusing, and if they can take these sort of issues so light heartedly, why can't we? Hell, straight girls I know gawk over some of the girls from Soul Calibre.
    Yeah, a few girls I know find things like breast physics in games funny aswell. Wouldn't you find it laughable if there was a fighting game in which the developers created butt or groin physics for the male characters? I mean, it would be so weird and that's why some girls find it funny. Also, if you're girl friend (not necessarily the girl who lives 3 hours away who you want to be your girlfriend; just a friend that happens to be a girl) was playing a game with said "man physics" you'd have to shrug it off and laugh because you don't want to seem like a prude, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    In case you didn't play GTA: Vice City it came pretty damn close to having nudity in it. The waitress at the bar was topless with only small tassel-thingies covering her n*pples. Additionally you could visit the strip club and get a private dance in a room. While the girl was clothed (barely) the dance didn't leave much to the imagination.
    I never played Vice City, just GTA3 and then San Andreas (I'm not a fan of the 80's because that era was all about getting money and bad disco music) so I didn't know it went that far, but that doesn't affend me as much because that game is totally made for adults and now today there are movies rated PG-13 that have more nudity than that. Just to get this straight, I don't have a problem with nudity. Nudity (atleast of the female variety) is fine and great, but only in movies that show a true connection between the characters a.k.a. not porn...and I'm not implying you like porn nor do I want to know if you like porn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel86
    As for a girlfriend, I dont think that would change anything man, what you like and what you don't wont suddenly change or go away just because you're with a girl (if your values are that weak you're probably the kind who would change everything about themself just to make themselves appear more attractive to the girl, even moreso, abandom gaming cuz she doesn't like it *shock*).

    Damn.. its been one helluvan argument. It's good to see this thread's still so active
    When you (and I don't mean you directly, I just mean most people) like a girl, I mean REALLY like her and think about her 99% of the time (the other 1% is when you're having a nightmear or your knocked unconcious or something), then you usually grow out of being intrested in things like porn because those girls aren't real and don't give a damn about you.
    I would never quit playing a certain videogame because a girl wanted me to. Then again, I generally play games that both sexes can appreciate (although certain parts of Splinter Cell 3 might not make that girl I like very happy a.k.a. the bathtub toture, but she's a gamer aswell and would probably like the rest of the game.)



    Really like this friendly debate. Sorry for the massive posts.
    Last edited by NateTheGreat; 08-14-2006 at 05:56 PM.
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  10. #49
    Chillin in the Mill Ezekiel86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat
    I didn't say they didn't. I know there are many horrible acts that go on in third world countries, but children as young as you can imagine being sold into the child sex trade is at the top for me. Killing someone is a horrible thing; a life is lost and everyone who loved them become extremly depressed. Then there's being cut by someone with a knife or beaten with a baseball bat, which would be seriously scary, painful, and scaring. But, sexual abuse is like killing someone without letting them die. I could take some knocks to the head with a bat or some deep knife wounds, but just imagine what it would be like if the creepist man in the world pushed you up against a wall, fondled and then raped you? I've fortunatly never had this happen to me, but it did happen to my cousin and she's delt with that pain ever since. Now what if you had to do that as your job 24/7 365 and you didn't have a choice because otherwise you would be beat and killed?
    I think this was loosely covered by what I was saying about the difference in social morals between the 40's/50's and now (let's not forget participating in the wars was considered an honour before Vietnam). I also acknowledge alot has changed for the better (women recognised as voters/gaining independance, abolishing the WAP [White Australia Policy] there was probably some equivalant in America, I'm not sure). However alot has changed for the worse too. Personally I think this began with the Vietnam war, all the problems the veterans had as well as the media scrutiny they faced, not to mention the atrocities against humanity some of them committed. It almost seems this was catalysed with Generation X who would have most likely had a father who returned as an alcoholic/drug addict, which lead to a broken family, possibly abusive parenting, thus the child would become anti social, have very few friends, get into drugs, and probably die at a young age or get involved with people as messed up... I am aware this is a generalisation as I am sure it didn't always go like this, but I am sure this would be applicable under alot of the circumstances surrounding lives after Vietnam,

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Yes, that's what I was trying to say; they feel the need for attention and think they can easily get it from seedy guys like the one you described. It's usually because their parents never gave them attention when they were young, so they'll do what they can to feel wanted, but they don't have to sleep with their customers; they want to be admired, but not worry about STDs.
    ... Once again, I'd say this related to my point about Vietnam, parents had too much time worrying about their own problems instead of raising their kids. Basic family values seem to have taken a back seat when the veterans wake up screaming in the middle of the night. Things haven't been the same since...

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Yes the world has changed from those days thank goodness. I know, you probably didn't expect me to say that, but I'm glad the world has changed because back in the 40's and 50's, African-Americans and women's rights were nonexsistant and things like certain styles of sex were illigal. While I'm glad rights are more equal today than then, we've sort of gone back in time now. This is because in the 70's women really fought for rights and to not be considered just a piece of meat for men to look at and use. Now, we have what I call female chauvenist pigs. These women will say they love things like porn and stripping just so they can get attention, like I said before and of course a large number of men are all for this because they don't care about actually forming a halfway meaningful relationship, they just want to get some (I hate that term by the way; dumb jocks at my school say it all the time and I seriously want to break their faces).
    Things have changed a helluva lot. I completely agree some changes have been for the better, such as equality (as I mentioned before, the abolishment of the White Australia Policy, and something similar in the US for one) and equal opportunity/wages for men and women etc. However even with the abolishment of government-sanctioned racism and stuff (Australia has a dark, dark history) problems like this are still widely prevalant (just listen to anyones reactions when someone mentions the middle east "f&^kin t*wel heads" etc... is what you're bound to hear. Is this not racism?) and can these public attitudes of racism ever be changed? I'd like to hope so but in practice I would seriously doubt it. Fear breeds racism just like war breeds terrorism.

    Female chauvenist pigs, thats an interesting term. I'm not sure where the whole attention thing stems from but you seem to have a good point regarding insecurities/upbringing and the like in such issues. Fear not Nate I despise the dumb jocks at highschool too; I wouldn't love give my usual reaction to a good looking girl around them so much as I would love to inflict a hatchet wound onto one of their faces. As far as "getting some" goes, I cannot stand those guys who are out (if the legal drinking age in your state is 21 you might have a while , but here its 18 so I'm good ) just to get girls. Those kind of guys are usually arrogant assholes who try to pick fights with other guys. While I have had some 'good' times when I've been out, I don't go out with that intention. The reason you go out is to have a good time with your friends and hey if it happens it happens. I've seen what some dudes with those intentions do, and its no wonder some girls have such low opinions of men, these guys ruin the rest of our reputations before we even have a chance to prove ourselves to be decent people.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Sorry, I never meant to imply that you don't have a girlfriend and I don't have a girlfriend either, but like you there is a girl I would like to go out with, but I haven't yet because I didn't really realize how much I liked her until this summer. She had just split up with her jerk boyfriend and that same night, no kidding, she gave me her number and I've had a few conversations with her and she's invited me to lunch; I just talked to her for 4 hours last night = the longest but greatest conversation I've ever had.
    No problemo man I don't really know if things are gonna work... she reckons she might like some other guy which I was really cut about... but there isn't anything I can do if she does. I hope things go well with you and your potential girlfriend, and that her lousy jerk ex doesnt cause trouble. Some guys are such assholes you cant help but wonder what do girls see in them in the first place? *sigh*
    Last edited by Ezekiel86; 08-15-2006 at 03:37 AM.

  11. #50
    Chillin in the Mill Ezekiel86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    No no no! Actually, when I read your name, I thought you were a Jesus freak because Ezkiel is as far as I know mentioned in the bible. I said this in another post, I think in the Official Photo Album thread, but I'll say it again: I am not for or against religion. I went to church one day when I was a little kid and said I didn't want to go back and we never did and I'm glad. Religion in my opinion has caused more hurt than help. So many people die in the Middle East today in some stupid holy war! The whole concept of religion was really in the beginning to keep the poor people poor and the rich people rich and to convince people that they were meant to be in the social class they were in and if you didn't then you were condemed to hell. Since people weren't educated in science and all, they somewhat believed it, but really, they didn't have a choice; it was off with their heads if they didn't believe. Some might try to label me as an Atheist but Atheisim is really a religion too because they believe when you die, it's done and there's nothing you're just a non-feeling, non-thinking being. I sort of hope reincarnation exists because then life would be endless, yet perhaps you wouldn't know you were reincarnated so it doesn't feel like "oh, I have to live through a whole other life?" To be completly honest though, I don't waste my time thinking about how death is going to be and what does/doesn't follow it; mystery is good sometimes.
    I'm not sure what gave me the idea you could have been religious, perhaps it was the strong moral stance you took on this issue. I can appreciate religion and its values, but I largely disagree with alot of its results, for instance it seems to have caused nothing but conflict, wars and innumerable deaths in the history of humanity, and by this I mean all three major religions are just as bad as each other in terms of respect for life and doing "god's work": Christianity - Crusades, Judaism - "God's Chosen People", Islam - Jihad (being a contemporary issue this is debatable). I largely agree with what you said about it being a form of keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. This was established during Feudal Russia, as it was determined religion was the "Opium of the Masses" by Karl Marx (citation needed). Thus religion was abolished and things like marriages were under control of the state.

    This is interesting actually because my mum is a fairly devout christian and my dad is a non-practicing muslim (a match made in heaven don't you think?) hence the Italian and S/E European/Russian/Mid Eastern background :P although my dad had no religious influence (as he has practically renounced his faith) he would always say to me "if you can prove to me god exists, I will worship him". He also despises cults believing "No man should be worshipped any more than any other man". I was raised as a Christian by mum and I used to be quite religious as a child. That kinda phased out in high school tho. My sister has practically renounced her Christianity as she dislikes everything religion stands for. I havent made such a rash judgement as I still attend church for special occasions (christmas and easter) but I really dont know what to believe in. I do believe there must be something more to the world than just the things we see around us, and where everything come from? These questions are not easy to answer


    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat
    No, I definitly don't think you're one of those assholes; if you were I would make sure you got banned from this site ASAP.
    thats good to know! likewise man its nice to know we're dealing with reasonable people here

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    I live in America, so AIDS is a major problem here aswell as countries like Africa.

    What I was trying to illustrate is that when people have anonymous sex or sex with a prostitute, they spread AIDS which causes the death rate to rise which then causes taxes to rise (not that I care about the taxes but I'm just showing how this affects everyone) which makes getting things like food difficult, so some turn to...selling themselves to be able to support their kids if they have them and/or paying bills. So, it's this endless cycle and when porn stars show their stuff for money, women (pornstars or not) are seen and treated more and more like a sexual object instead of the people they truly are and deserve to be treated as.

    I agree with your moto that if there's something that makes you feel good and you're not hurting anyone directly (like physically hurting someone) or indirectly (like watching teen porn), then by all means, do it.
    Ah, yeah I was trying to work out what context you were speaking from. Yeah AIDS is probably more widespread and problematic over in the States, over here in Aus its pretty minimal. I guess its the same problem with women/pornstars as the asshole/nice guys: They lower peoples opinions of you for being affiliated with that gender.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    There's a difference between appealing and just geting turned on. Sure, I've seen the girls from DOA and of course I get turned on but that doesn't mean I go looking for it or want to see it; I finish a fight and then suddenly they just put up some stupid character video.

    Yeah, a few girls I know find things like breast physics in games funny aswell. Wouldn't you find it laughable if there was a fighting game in which the developers created butt or groin physics for the male characters? I mean, it would be so weird and that's why some girls find it funny. Also, if you're girl friend (not necessarily the girl who lives 3 hours away who you want to be your girlfriend; just a friend that happens to be a girl) was playing a game with said "man physics" you'd have to shrug it off and laugh because you don't want to seem like a prude, right?
    Yes you do speak a fair bit of truth there. lol the idea of "man physics" its a pretty funny concept, i guess its probably not in games because most of the game designers are men, who are probably straight too, so they make things they find appealing. I do agree though, a game with
    "man physics" and "male anatomy" would be pretty interesting, kinda funny too (not that im into that stuff, it would just be funny to see, or maybe I just have a warped sense of humour ). I can't really say I'm opposed to all the breast physics and jiggle mechanics, have you ever played the game "Fighting Angels" on PS2? that game took it waaaaaay too far I am told, and it had no real plot value to it either, just a bunch of beachball-chested girls in bikinis fighting (perfect for the just-hit-puberty 13 year old gamer). It's nice to have games featuring attractive girls, but its just taken too far sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    I never played Vice City, just GTA3 and then San Andreas (I'm not a fan of the 80's because that era was all about getting money and bad disco music) so I didn't know it went that far, but that doesn't affend me as much because that game is totally made for adults and now today there are movies rated PG-13 that have more nudity than that. Just to get this straight, I don't have a problem with nudity. Nudity (atleast of the female variety) is fine and great, but only in movies that show a true connection between the characters a.k.a. not porn...and I'm not implying you like porn nor do I want to know if you like porn.
    ... And AWFUL casseroles I feel somewhat the same way, though I'm not opposed to porn (as I'm sure more guys are not opposed), as long as its consentual.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat


    When you (and I don't mean you directly, I just mean most people) like a girl, I mean REALLY like her and think about her 99% of the time (the other 1% is when you're having a nightmear or your knocked unconcious or something), then you usually grow out of being intrested in things like porn because those girls aren't real and don't give a damn about you.
    I would never quit playing a certain videogame because a girl wanted me to. Then again, I generally play games that both sexes can appreciate (although certain parts of Splinter Cell 3 might not make that girl I like very happy a.k.a. the bathtub toture, but she's a gamer aswell and would probably like the rest of the game.)
    When you 'like' someone that much that sounds like its bordering on love. I wouldn't say porn is something you "grow out of" as I know couples who watch porn together. There are varied opinions of porn and its place in society, how moral it is etc. But once again, my belief is if it doesnt hurt anyone including yourself in the process, and you enjoy doing it, then do it

    Quote Originally Posted by NateTheGreat

    Really like this friendly debate. Sorry for the massive posts.
    This has been interesting, sorry if i got a bit personal/long there. its been good tho!

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