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  1. #11
    Guru of everything Ninty wezeles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshieca
    Why do you say this? How is the sound from an IMAX movie any different than that of a digital movie in a theater?
    in imax movies the hole idea is 3d effect, they spend up to 10 times as much if not more for video and audio in an imax movie then a standard film.. the acctually will setup more than a couple mics to record sound from a chase,fight,sceen... when you setup a film for i max there are acctually 5 to 10 different inputs for audio all different channels.. so its true surround..

    Quote Originally Posted by gamechaser001
    Now for the thing you say about that there is only 2 booms for recording in stereo only, that is incorrect, even in the time when there was no coax, fiber optic, or HDMI audio, it depends on the subject, for example, if it's a commercial or infomercial (<spellings?)all you are recording is the subject, the person in the entertainment, which means you only care about the audio from that person, so that only uses 1 boom for recording, for specific stereo recording, there are 2 booms, but for something recorded for surround sound, there are 5 different booms recording, the 5 different channels are still on the media storage (CD, tape, DVD, etc.), but still goes through the stereo cabling and relies on the decoder to separate the center and the rear channels, the same thing happens when you have a mono television, the left and right channels are joined together and the right signal is more silent than the left, same thing goes for 7.1 surround sound, the 7.1 media is recorded with 7 different booms, or whatever microphone they use for that entertainment (and yes, there is a surround standard with 7 speakers, standard 3 in front, but 4 in rear)

    Now for newer media and decoder units that have HDMI, coax, fiber optic, etc., the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio are on the media in the 5 or 7 different channels they are in, and the decoder dosen't have to decypher the audio from the stereo cables, therefore you have higher quality audio
    now what you said is half right.. there are 9 times outta 10 only 2 forms of audio in a movie as it is filmed.. one for subject,one for background "effect" audio.... most effects you hear in a movie "gun shots,explosions" are added in later and the "surround sound" effect is added then.. all they do is run the audio across from one speaker to the other side... "car driving by" you will hear it start at the front and then it rolls to behind you.. this isnt the acctual recording its just an effect they give to make it more real its still just one audio channel comming off it.. ive worked on plenty of sets and had the pleasure of working on an imax film in my life... the only time ive seen more then 2 mics on a set was the imax... its all done in the edditing booth for everyone else.. time consuming but whenever you see DB 5.1 7.1 whatever on a box all that means is it is capable of being played in that manor.. its still just fancy digital stereo pulled around a circle...

    true HDMI,fiber optic and Coax will decode it better then just the analog composite channels will.. but its the same thing just not as crisp and clear... the more channels the better for everything audio and visual.. analog you only have a couple channels to decode it where the others have multiple channels....but unless its imax.. or some very high end film its still just an effect added after the fact to make it more real... not the "real" sound...

  2. #12
    Wii Nerd gamechaser001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wezeles
    in imax movies the hole idea is 3d effect, they spend up to 10 times as much if not more for video and audio in an imax movie then a standard film.. the acctually will setup more than a couple mics to record sound from a chase,fight,sceen... when you setup a film for i max there are acctually 5 to 10 different inputs for audio all different channels.. so its true surround..



    now what you said is half right.. there are 9 times outta 10 only 2 forms of audio in a movie as it is filmed.. one for subject,one for background "effect" audio.... most effects you hear in a movie "gun shots,explosions" are added in later and the "surround sound" effect is added then.. all they do is run the audio across from one speaker to the other side... "car driving by" you will hear it start at the front and then it rolls to behind you.. this isnt the acctual recording its just an effect they give to make it more real its still just one audio channel comming off it.. ive worked on plenty of sets and had the pleasure of working on an imax film in my life... the only time ive seen more then 2 mics on a set was the imax... its all done in the edditing booth for everyone else.. time consuming but whenever you see DB 5.1 7.1 whatever on a box all that means is it is capable of being played in that manor.. its still just fancy digital stereo pulled around a circle...

    true HDMI,fiber optic and Coax will decode it better then just the analog composite channels will.. but its the same thing just not as crisp and clear... the more channels the better for everything audio and visual.. analog you only have a couple channels to decode it where the others have multiple channels....but unless its imax.. or some very high end film its still just an effect added after the fact to make it more real... not the "real" sound...
    Ok, yes, the sounds you hear in some movies are usually computer created or recorded beforehand, and since IMAX is meant for the 3D experience, they do more of surround recording, and the audio systems used for IMAX theatres are high end, expensive, audio systems, but saying that non-IMAX theatres do not run off of true surround is incorrect, some time ago, I had a tour of a movie theatre for a cub scout outing, at the end of the tour, the person who hosted the touring gave out clippings of the discontinued films they played, and in the audio strip on the side of the filmstrip seemed to have 6 different lines, one per audio channel, they were thin, but I saw 6 different lines, and I don't think they would join them into 2 stereo lines and back into their separate channels, same thing goes for media with surround encoding, if you use stereo cabling, yes, I agree, the decoder would have to decypher what audio goes to what channel, but for HDMI, fiber optic, coax, etc., I highly doubt that it will break down the 6 or so channels down to 2, then back to 6 or so after the decoding, unless you have any proof that says otherwise, that is what I will believe


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  3. #13
    Oh yeah, its me! Joshieca's Avatar
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    90% of all movie sound you hear in the final cut is NOT recorded on set. The sound from the machines on the set, the hum from lights, background noise, director directions, etc, all make the majority of sound recorded on a movie set usable only as a guide. Most of your sound is done in a sound studio where they can control the environment and then in post they will add enhancement to the sound, add in the music score, the effects, the ADR, and then do a final multi track mix utilizing computers and surround sound encoders to achieve the surround sound you hear. Just because an IMAX theater has more input/outputs for audio doesn't make it better for surround sound. It just means they have more separation for the equipment usually do to the large auditorium size and/or the equipment used.

  4. #14
    Guru of everything Ninty wezeles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamechaser001
    Ok, yes, the sounds you hear in some movies are usually computer created or recorded beforehand, and since IMAX is meant for the 3D experience, they do more of surround recording, and the audio systems used for IMAX theatres are high end, expensive, audio systems, but saying that non-IMAX theatres do not run off of true surround is incorrect, some time ago, I had a tour of a movie theatre for a cub scout outing, at the end of the tour, the person who hosted the touring gave out clippings of the discontinued films they played, and in the audio strip on the side of the filmstrip seemed to have 6 different lines, one per audio channel, they were thin, but I saw 6 different lines, and I don't think they would join them into 2 stereo lines and back into their separate channels, same thing goes for media with surround encoding, if you use stereo cabling, yes, I agree, the decoder would have to decypher what audio goes to what channel, but for HDMI, fiber optic, coax, etc., I highly doubt that it will break down the 6 or so channels down to 2, then back to 6 or so after the decoding, unless you have any proof that says otherwise, that is what I will believe
    my point isnt that the 6 lines of audio arnt there.. my point is it is digitally enhanced.. they a couple pieces of audio and move it around to give you the illusion of being in the middle of the action... in 5.1 there is 6 lines of code but its from the same 2 sources broken up and moved around some sound lowered some raised some eliminated some singled out... all to give you that effect... but be composite hdmi coax fiber its the same code for 5.1 7.1 pretty much anything your system supports..

    there are a few surround formats that wont support composite but thats just because they have such complex codes... to decode it with composite would be about impossibal, most movies arnt even in these kinds of format and the surround systems that play them are thousands of dollars.. but still its just an effect of moving sound... they just spent more time on it

    hmm easy way to explain would be the surround sound is the internet... you can use a modem using 2 wires, or a broadband using 6... its still get you to the same place does the same thing... ones just faster at it.. but the end result is the same... the quality will sound better on one then the other but thats just because there are more sources to get to one place.. but its still going to the same place...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshieca
    90% of all movie sound you hear in the final cut is NOT recorded on set. The sound from the machines on the set, the hum from lights, background noise, director directions, etc, all make the majority of sound recorded on a movie set usable only as a guide. Most of your sound is done in a sound studio where they can control the environment and then in post they will add enhancement to the sound, add in the music score, the effects, the ADR, and then do a final multi track mix utilizing computers and surround sound encoders to achieve the surround sound you hear. Just because an IMAX theater has more input/outputs for audio doesn't make it better for surround sound. It just means they have more separation for the equipment usually do to the large auditorium size and/or the equipment used.
    pretty much right on a set "inside" normally they would only keep subject speach... just the people talking and add anything else later.. you might get someone watching t.v. or a phone ringing but that would be about it, and alot of times thats added in too..lol you dont know how hard it is to answer a phone thats pretending to ring till you try it..

    but when there is an outside shot they usually will keep a 2nd audio for background noise cars,construction etc. just to keep it lifelike... it would be hard to add that in later when you see a guy in the background with a jackhammer... they add just about everything else though and will manipulate that sound to give you the surround sound effect....

    in any film though they do use 2 maybe 3 mics for this process because some audio might be better than others, and they need to interlace atleast the 2 tracks to get the stereo sound.. that can be as little as a mic per person.. one person talks it comes out the right side louder... the other person the left side louder...
    then the 3rd mic might be used for backgorund noise which they will raise and lower certain elements to make it more real.. increase the sound of a car passing by... then move it from one side to the other of the surround board... to make it feel like it just passed you in your living room its just manipulated...

    but when it comes to imax.. i mean real imax not just spider man 2 in imax theater... which is a normal film just adapted to fit the imax screen... something like the educational stuff, i got to do nascar racing for a week.. and they acctually had multiple cameras and mics everyware.. they all went to the same controll booth, thats why its so expensive its pretty much filming 3 or 4 movies at once and getting 1 large finnished project.. when you hear the car race around the track its acctually passing about 6 guys holding mics so it is the same as if you were right there in the car... only time ive ever seen that done crazy process but very cool... but unless you've seen an imax film.. real one.. its kinda hard to explain, most of them end up being documentarys and such not high end films but educational, and entertaining. giving you the feeling of being right there because you pretty much are with the sound and video they get with one shot..

    hope that helps explain it a bit better spent more than a few years in film and t.v. production school and i still am lost most of the time.. ha ha
    Last edited by wezeles; 03-19-2007 at 12:18 AM.


  5. #15
    Wii Nerd gamechaser001's Avatar
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    my point isnt that the 6 lines of audio arnt there.. my point is it is digitally enhanced.. they a couple pieces of audio and move it around to give you the illusion of being in the middle of the action... in 5.1 there is 6 lines of code but its from the same 2 sources broken up and moved around some sound lowered some raised some eliminated some singled out... all to give you that effect... but be composite hdmi coax fiber its the same code for 5.1 7.1 pretty much anything your system supports..

    there are a few surround formats that wont support composite but thats just because they have such complex codes... to decode it with composite would be about impossibal, most movies arnt even in these kinds of format and the surround systems that play them are thousands of dollars.. but still its just an effect of moving sound... they just spent more time on it

    hmm easy way to explain would be the surround sound is the internet... you can use a modem using 2 wires, or a broadband using 6... its still get you to the same place does the same thing... ones just faster at it.. but the end result is the same... the quality will sound better on one then the other but thats just because there are more sources to get to one place.. but its still going to the same place...
    two things

    1. How do you expect me to take you seriously when you can't even spell impossible correctly? I can tell that it isn't chat slang, it's just a plain misspelling, now listen, I misspell too, a lot of people do, but it was appearent at just a glance that you misspelled twice, if you have to, try using Microsoft Word and look for the red lines, sorry if that came out rude, I didn't mean to be, just saying that people aren't going to take you seriously when you do

    2. You still aren't showing me proof, a simple link is all i'm asking for, here's how I see it, if you can't find anything to back you up, you might as well not know what you are talking about


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  6. #16
    WiiChat Member mym6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamechaser001
    two things

    1. How do you expect me to take you seriously when you can't even spell impossible correctly? I can tell that it isn't chat slang, it's just a plain misspelling, now listen, I misspell too, a lot of people do, but it was appearent at just a glance that you misspelled twice, if you have to, try using Microsoft Word and look for the red lines, sorry if that came out rude, I didn't mean to be, just saying that people aren't going to take you seriously when you do

    2. You still aren't showing me proof, a simple link is all i'm asking for, here's how I see it, if you can't find anything to back you up, you might as well not know what you are talking about
    Lets see YOU provide a link.

    Both of you are right to an extent but things are getting worded wrong or just confused. I think, people might be confusing a real IMAX theater to some theaters being built today that call a screen or two an IMAX screen. The movies you watch in a multiplex, even if it says IMAX on the side, are NOT the same thing you find at the science museum. At the science museum (and similar such venues) is you where you find true IMAX experience with multi-channel audio that was recorded that way as well.

    Dolby Pro Logic is a way (the standard way) to encode audio so that the right equipment can decode the audio into separate channels when played back. The nice thing about Dolby encodings is that they "fail gracefully" in that a standard 2 channel TV or receiver will play all of the sound, but a receiver with Dolby decoding will take the sounds and play them on the appropriate channels when instructed.

    To answer the original poster, this is why the Wii (and any audio source using RCA connections) can get away with just a left and right output. The audio really is encoded on just those two channels but using the correct decoding equipment the sound can be expanded to other channels, depending on how the encoding was done.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Skippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mym6
    Both of you are right to an extent but things are getting worded wrong or just confused. I think, people might be confusing a real IMAX theater to some theaters being built today that call a screen or two an IMAX screen. The movies you watch in a multiplex, even if it says IMAX on the side, are NOT the same thing you find at the science museum.
    IMAX is a film format - a large frame film format. If a theater says "IMAX" then it means it is using an IMAX projector to project IMAX film. Some screens used in IMAX theaters are larger others, but that doesn't mean that only the largest are IMAX.

  8. #18
    Guru of everything Ninty wezeles's Avatar
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    you could try a simple search to find most of this out.. or go here and ask someone im sure they will explain it to you
    http://forums.studentfilms.com
    you might even learn something about film making

    as your basing your own facts on a piece of film strip you were given on a tour and no acctual experience in it, pretty far strech from being an expert... as for my spelling..lol thats your problem not mine ive always had bad spelling but then again im not sending out a report or anything so i really dont care...

    there is a difference between an imax theater and an imax film not all films in an imax theater are in imax format.. some are just movies streched to fit the screen.. same way the strech or shrink a film to fit your t.v.

    one loop hole i forgot to mention was coax... coax seems to go agenst the trend of "more inputs better signal" only being one rca cable to give you digital sound.. the only difference is coax is made specifically for decoding these signals... so it can get away with it.. one source of audio and the decoder tells it where to go it was made specifically for surround sound... but when using rca's its just pulling this signal out of the standard audio already then converts it to surround sound... its ontop of the basic stereo sound then decoded... where coax is made specific for it...
    Last edited by wezeles; 03-19-2007 at 05:48 PM.


  9. #19
    Wii Nerd gamechaser001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wezeles
    there is a difference between an imax theater and an imax film not all films in an imax theater are in imax format.. some are just movies streched to fit the screen.. same way the strech or shrink a film to fit your t.v.
    You fail to understand the difference of IMAX and IMAX 3-D, which are both different things, well, they are the same to some standpoint

    IMAX is just a big projection and a way better sound system (as you explained before), only IMAX film can run in IMAX projectors, the IMAX film runs faster than normal theater film (I forgot where I heard this, I believe it was something on the Disney channel, I will look for a link), I also think the film size (measured in millimeters) is different so an IMAX projector can't in any form play normal theater film, all films played on an IMAX projector is in IMAX format, just not always 3-D

    IMAX 3-D on the other hand uses the same principle as above (2-D version), except there are 2 different filmstrips running 2 different projections (I know this for a fact, I saw the different beams of light when seeing an IMAX 3-D movie), the second filmstrip (usually on top) projects on top of the standard filmstrip creating what looks like a ghosting effect (If you have a bad cable connection, or use an antenna, you know what I am talking about), when you put on the 3-D glasses, the glasses focus the ghost like image to form what your eyes think is a 3-D image

    I will look for a link that better explains what I am trying to say


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  10. #20
    Guru of everything Ninty wezeles's Avatar
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    first i thought we were discussing surround sound not video
    i thought you were reffering to imax and a film played in imax... for instance i went and saw spider man 2 here at our imax.. it wasnt filmed with an imax camera or in imax audio at all just adapted to fit the film size for imax projectors.. the acctual film of imax compared to a standard projector film is almost 10 times as big... but there are a few different video setups for imax films 2d and 3d like you said and they do run at higher speeds for the frames per second compared to a normal movie.. and the 3d is an interlace of two or more films at once.. if you ever get a chance to go behind the workings of an imax theater its awsome to see in action

    eaither way i was talking about the audio not the video part of imax.. and how imax itself has audio recording in true surround...not digitally enhanced to mimic surround sound, so really what type of imax film it is has nothing to do with it.. just the fact that its in "true surround"
    Last edited by wezeles; 03-19-2007 at 11:55 PM.


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