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  1. #21
    Official Breeder. Chicagoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuddlePook
    Like I told Strype,



    so of course my set is the best Chicagoan ^.^.

    My Smeargle is too 1337 to get Ohko'd, I mean it does have Splash...

    Yep... yours is the best one!!!

    Anyway, the one with explosion won't do much more... It's STAB explosion but the "awesome" stats will make a difference....

    Almost magikarp is stronger than Smeargle

    Magikarp max attack 130
    Smeargle max attack 152


    LMAO

    And you wanna use explosion against my rock - steel 478 defense pokemon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You won't even wake her up

    Let's take a look over the stats:


    Magikarp max hp: 244
    Smeargle max hp: 314

    Magikarp max attack 130
    Smeargle max attack 152

    Magikarp max defense: 229
    Smeargle max defense: 185

    Magikarp max sp attack: 141
    Smeargle max sp attack: 152

    Magikap max sp defense: 152
    Smeargle max sp defense: 207

    Magikarp max speed: 284
    Smeargle max speed: 273

    Magikarp has two stats out of six better than Smeargle (I'm comparing the crappiest pokemon with Smeargle)

    We add all max stats

    Magikarp: 1180
    Smeargle: 1146


    Magikarp is officially stronger than Smeargle... At least magikarp becomes something usefull when it evolves.


    Smeargle can get any attack, magikarp can't... but magikarp evolves into Gyarados, which surely has all stat over than Smeargle (which do not evolve)

    A Magikarp using tackle vs a Smeargle using Tackle... Magikarp wins (and Smeargle has STAB, which our fishy friend hasn't)


    Both with Splash... Magikarp would win too, as his Struggle will be stronger, and he has more defense too.
    Last edited by Chicagoan; 12-06-2007 at 08:16 AM.
    Pokemon FC 5240 8584 1640 Name: Fer
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  3. #22
    PokéGod. massi4h's Avatar
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    But you don't use Smeargle to use tackle. You really are being stupid. You obviously don't know how good Smeargle is. Magikarp has 3 moves so it is not better than Smeargle. All Smeargle needs is it's decent speed stat and it can ignore ever other stat as it's main purpose it so pass belly drums and put a pokemon to sleep which only need it to be faster than the pokemon it is up against. It could have a base of 1 in all stats except speed (and maybe HP as you need divisible by 4) and it would be better than a Magikarp. Smeargle is one of the best baton passers and has been since GSC and you can bring it on so much, try encoring a shadow ball then bringing him in or bringing him in on a CSpecs shadow ball. Even encoring a stat-up move.


    And if we wanna look at his attack stat, lets use belly drum explosion as that would be one of the only cases where you would attack with smeargle. 3

    Jolly Smeargle (139 Attack) vs. Bold Cloyster (504 Def, 304 HP [both max]):
    Belly Drum Explosion (STAB + 500 BP + 4x damage): 197.70 - 232.57 %

    Adamant Magikarp (130 Attack) vs. Bold Cloyster (504 Def, 304 HP [both max]):
    Tackle (35 BP): 3.95 - 4.61 % (12 - 14 HP damage)

    Oh you must be right, magikarp is better.


    And one more calculation:
    Jolly Smeargle (139 Attack) vs. Bold Golem (394 Def, 364 HP [both max]):
    Belly Drum Explosion (STAB + 500 BP + 2x damage): 105.22 - 123.90 %

    It even OHKO's Golem. Obviously if you were to use a belly drummed explosion you're not gonna pull it out on an Aggron or a Bastiodon, which don't exist in OU anyway, which is where I think Smeargle is hanging out, possibly BL and those guys are UU anyway.

    Smeargle is one of the MOST useful pokemon out there, how can you not get more useful than whatever move you want?



    Edit: the struggle battle. IIRC struggle gives no STAB.
    We'll give both Magikarp and Smeargle: Bold Nature, 252 Attack, 252 Defense, 4 HP.

    Magikarp's Struggle against Smeargle:
    9.29 - 11.51 %

    Smeargle's Struggle against Smeargle:
    12.64 - 14.84 %

    Smeargle also wins the struggle war. How in the world does Magikarp beat Smeargle with Tackle vs. Tackle?
    You want numbers, I gave you numbers.
    Last edited by massi4h; 12-06-2007 at 01:33 PM.
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  4. #23
    Official Breeder. Chicagoan's Avatar
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    That should be seen in the game... this calculators are not 100% accurate. I personally do not like Smeargle... and to get a belly drum is pretty hard without loosing it.

    I defeated tons of this crappy guys... and I will glad do it again... as easy as this:

    One of my pokes uses Stealth rock... smeargle comes out and gets damage... focus sash goes to hell. One of my physical sweepers (obviously faster than a smeargle) deala brick break... and bye bye smeargle.

    I do not know how exactly works Struggle anyway, and batting with Struggle is stupid... it just was an example... Being so close to Magickarp is so sad anyway...

    All is not about stats... but I do not trust Smeargle, they are very predictable... and if you use it as a batton passer, it will die before he can pass if you have a good strategy like:

    Smeargle Vs Primeape:


    Smeagle uses the typical Spore attack
    Primeape does not fall asleep due Insomnia ability.
    Primeape deals brick break
    Smeargle fains

    Ninjask can do fine...

    Smeargle sucky speed does not make him a good baton passer (I know a very better one, which is not ninjask and it's UU.

    Smeargle cannot stand against a sweeper, as if it's a battom passer, he will be to slow to deal 1hp to the sweeper.
    You cannot choice scarf him either, as to be useful, he needs more than one attack, and you know how choice scarf works....

    Also, I'm sure there is nobody so silly to not faint a belly drummed smeargle... And a smeargle using belly drum, can be very predictable, if you can't faint it, you just switch into a ghost pokemon, and it's likely smeargle's trainer is going to waste it.

    I only find him useful against weak trainers, but a good strategy can put smeargle to sleep. It's easy to have a roar or whirlwind attack, that may help, but the holder needs to resist the receive's attack, which will be hard... but the receiver shouldn't receive a strong attack, because if he does it may faint and you wasted time (like sending a belly drummed gyarados) He gets damaged by stealth rock or sand storm (which is present in almost every battle due the OOOOU Tyranitar) then he receives a thunderbolt and faints.

    This last option, is all about luck, but a good trainer, does not risk too much, as a fail can be expensive...

    And doing massive attacks is silly.. and very risky...

    Do not get upset man... but smeargle is not that good...


    Beating a sad magikarp is not reason to party...
    Man... I defeated a entire team of smeargles, with all combos... and I only lost one pokemon... It was with one guy like fox...

    He told me he could defeat my bastiodon...

    She sweet his entire team... and she is a tank... only one of my guys fainted, due my bastiodon got a roar and my guy was sent out and left Smeargle with 1hp and my guy got a critic attack
    Last edited by Chicagoan; 12-06-2007 at 04:03 PM.
    Pokemon FC 5240 8584 1640 Name: Fer
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    Wi-Fi Wins 212 Loses 18 Draws 2 Random PBR Wins: 188 Loses: 4
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  5. #24
    PokéGod. massi4h's Avatar
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    OK this is the basic Smeargle set:

    Smeargle @ Salac Berry
    Jolly Nature
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spd
    - Spore
    - Belly Drum
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute


    Who in the world uses Primeape in an OU match, matter of fact it's pretty uncommon to find any insomniacs.

    The set goes: Smeargle is out against something that it is faster than, no I won't bring it out against your Garchomp, I'll bring it out against your Blissey or whatever. Smeargle spores. Opponent switches and Smeargle Subs. Opponent breaks sub and smeargle belly drums. Salac Berry activates. Smeargle baton passes to sweeper who gets +6 Attack and +1 Spd, I think that is quite powerful. Generally you do wanna sub first and that eliminates chances of being able to be phazed easier. I also fail to see what switching a ghost into Smeargle will do.

    But maybe we shouldn't use Smeargle because it can't put a shuppet to sleep and stop using Ninjask as my uber common Arcanine will use extremespeed on it. And hey who needs a tyranitar if someone can brick break it, because switching apparently isn't an option. Hey hang on, all pokemon can be countered, let's stop playing...
    Tetris DS- 873843 320232
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    If you need any help on playing either of these two games competitively just drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do. I'll rate your team for you as well (not Tetris lol), but make sure it has EVs, natures, items and descriptions.
    I'll also help with almost any other DS game including MKDS, DKRDS, MPH, CoD4MW, EBA. Note: I say competitive alot and I like to win lol.

  6. #25
    Official Breeder. Chicagoan's Avatar
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    I do not have a garchomp, I hate him.
    I like blissey, but I do not use it either...

    And.... for your information... I have a primeape... and I know some good trainers who has him as well... With primeape you easily counter all people using Dark Void with Mr Krueger's Pokemon. I have a mankey lv1 with ivs hp 28 - attack 31 - defense 29 - special attack 12 - special defense 31 - speed 31 and she (it's a girl) has insomnia... With her I send to hell all tyranitars garchompeses, blisseys and smeargleses...
    Pokemon FC 5240 8584 1640 Name: Fer
    My wife (Ana) is a berry master. I have tons of each berry (1-64). PM

    Wi-Fi Wins 212 Loses 18 Draws 2 Random PBR Wins: 188 Loses: 4
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  7. #26
    PokéGod. massi4h's Avatar
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    Yes I could use a Primeape well, but it is worse than pretty much any OU fighting pokemon like Machamp, Heracross, Infernape. If you are using it to counter Smeargle you must think it is a sufficient threat which is paradoxing yourself. And there is a thing called Sleep Clause.

    And Dark Void is exclusive to Darkrai which is an Uber. So now you're using Primeape in Ubers, wtf?

    And Primeape doesn't beat Garchomp in any common way. It's not a sufficient counter at all. And why are you using brick break on a pokemon that learns Close Combat? Brick Break won't even counter Blissey as you should able to be outstalled by either a thunderwave Blissey or just lose to counter.

    Oh yeah and congrats on breeding a pokemon to get insomnia when the ability you mean is vital spirit.
    Last edited by massi4h; 12-06-2007 at 05:15 PM.
    Tetris DS- 873843 320232
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    PM me if you add me in either.

    If you need any help on playing either of these two games competitively just drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do. I'll rate your team for you as well (not Tetris lol), but make sure it has EVs, natures, items and descriptions.
    I'll also help with almost any other DS game including MKDS, DKRDS, MPH, CoD4MW, EBA. Note: I say competitive alot and I like to win lol.

  8. #27
    Official Breeder. Chicagoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massi4h
    Yes I could use a Primeape well, but it is worse than pretty much any OU fighting pokemon like Machamp, Heracross, Infernape. If you are using it to counter Smeargle you must think it is a sufficient threat which is paradoxing yourself. And there is a thing called Sleep Clause.

    And Dark Void is exclusive to Darkrai which is an Uber. So now you're using Primeape in Ubers, wtf?

    And Primeape doesn't beat Garchomp in any common way. It's not a sufficient counter at all. And why are you using brick break on a pokemon that learns Close Combat? Brick Break won't even counter Blissey as you should able to be outstalled by either a thunderwave Blissey or just lose to counter.

    Oh yeah and congrats on breeding a pokemon to get insomnia when the ability you mean is vital spirit.
    I mentioned Brick Break cuz is enough to beat Smeargle...
    And you know what I mean. Insomnia is the same...

    We were speaking about Smeargles... I do not know if we fought before, but I think we should when I get the new router/

    This is getting bored... I just was laughing at Smeargle cuz I think he sucks... there are better strategies.
    Last edited by Chicagoan; 12-06-2007 at 06:31 PM.
    Pokemon FC 5240 8584 1640 Name: Fer
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    Wi-Fi Wins 212 Loses 18 Draws 2 Random PBR Wins: 188 Loses: 4
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  9. #28
    V(^.^)v WuddlePook's Avatar
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    Whoop whoop let me intervene. No need for bad blood to stir up in here peoplez...

    Anyways, let's think about this...

    iirc, only five Pokemon get Spore: Paras, Parasect, Shroomish (which goes to Breloom) and Smeargle.

    Paras(ect) and Shroomish can be ignored since we don't care about them too much in this thread. Anyways, Breloom has a base speed of 70, Smeargle has 75... Sucky speed? Hell, it beats Breloom to the spore, so it's not that bad speedwise. Meh, whatever it's speed sucks, big deal. Comparing a Smeargles speed to the speed of something like Infernape, Alakazam, Weavile, etc. is meaningless (Not saying your comparing it to them, but . Of course it's not going to outspeed them, it's not meant to outspeed them. It's job is to abuse it's vast movepool (namely being Spore/Buffer/Counter~Mirror Coat/Whatever.

    Smeargle sucky speed does not make him a good baton passer (I know a very better one, which is not ninjask and it's UU.
    Umbreon's and Vaporeons speed are fairly pathetic, so all of a sudden they aren't good baton passers? Of course not! Having a Pokemon that can pass absolutely anything is what makes Smeargle a good baton passer in the first place imo.

    Smeargle Vs Primeape:


    Smeagle uses the typical Spore attack
    Primeape does not fall asleep due Insomnia ability.
    Primeape deals brick break
    Smeargle fains
    Like massi4h implied, any smart player can always switch. How about this?

    Smeargle Vs. Primape

    Player switches to Ghost/Counter!
    Primape uses Brick Break
    Brick Break does not affect (Pokemon)/Brick Break deals small% to (Pokemon)

    Would you keep Primape against my counter? No. If you do, you shouldn't.

    or how about this.

    Chicagoan switches in Primape.
    Smeagle's Spore fails due to ability.

    Player switches to x
    Primape uses Brick Break... bla bla bla.

    Get it? That's why we switch.


    But yeah just restating some points to sharpen a + to Smeargle.

    Is it predictable? Somewhat to an extent. Spore or Endure will most likely come first (Unless it's using Counter and such) but still. Just because it's predictable doesn't mean it's trash.

    But to stay on topic, aside from the Splash set, I myself like the Baton Pass set for BPTeams. It sounds fun in theory, so it seems solid when I look at it.

    (Yes, I'm Pro for Smeargle)
    ===

    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
    -Robert Frost

  10. #29
    Official Breeder. Chicagoan's Avatar
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    And it is what I said in my very first post.

    I said messiah's Smeargle is the best choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoan

    I like messiah one much more...

    However, one of my guys will ruin his one as well... but it's cooler.
    But the one with Explosion... sucks.
    Pokemon FC 5240 8584 1640 Name: Fer
    My wife (Ana) is a berry master. I have tons of each berry (1-64). PM

    Wi-Fi Wins 212 Loses 18 Draws 2 Random PBR Wins: 188 Loses: 4
    Overall amount of sent eggs: 463

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  11. #30
    V(^.^)v WuddlePook's Avatar
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    The one with explosion sucks because it's the only attacking move on the set. If he had something else to work with, it would be fine maybe... : )
    ===

    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
    -Robert Frost

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