Unread 10-19-2007, 01:28 AM #1
Master of Bowser
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Riverside, SoCal
Gimpyfish's E For All reports thread DAY THREE UPDATE ADDED
PODCAST ABOUT BRAWL WITH GIMPYFISH AND MIKE HAZE BY GLENN OF GET YOUR TOURNAMENT
I'm typing it up now, this thread is going to be very very large and very very informative, it's got most every question you'd have answered after just day one, but we are still working hard on it.
we've made a few advanced tactic discoveries and things like that as well, I just got back so I better get to typing now, thanks for your patience.
MOST IMPORTANT UPDATE. THE GAME IS FREAKING FUN.
The air dodge. Obviously this is one of the big changes in Brawl.
Airdodge is no longer directional, making wavedashing (in the same sense) impossible (be patient people we have more info on things like that soon), you can airdodge and then jump, but you all knew this already.
Honestly the lack of a wavedash as of now doesn't seem to be too detrimental. It's obviously a change but the change of pase on the game in general makes this seem like it wont be as important, especially with a few of the techniques we discovered being available (details on those later obviously)
Auto Float with Peach
Still in, Peach can just hold down and will float automatically
The c-stick has changed, and its a welcome improvement. You can officially CHARGE smash attacks with the c-stick, which is nice, and you can also do tilts with it if you are holding the directions on the control stick in addition to the c-stick. its very useful
Honestly it seems like some characters can still chaingrab, mario can certainly chaingrab some characters (in addition to his numerous buffs n_n) but chaingrabbing makes me sad T-T
It's surprising though, as all of the characters seem generally floatier, as well as seem to recover from hitstun sooner, so chaingrabbing seems to be less possible by most characters
In, and cc dsmash is more difficult due to the fact that if you are holding down it will do a dtilt, and not a dsmash.
In and beautiful, sonic's dash dance is INCREDIBLE. think captain falcon, but better lol
Seems to be basically the same.
Double Jump Cancel
THIS IS OUT. (at least with yoshi) nah seems like peach can still do it though, so *shrug* still in, but not with certain characters
works the same, characters retain invincibility on the ledges in the same manner as they do in melee (we found out many "advanced" edgehogs, to be discussed later)
Essentially the same, although with the characters being generally "floatier" it seems to have slightly less of an impact.
You can still grab items with z when you jump in the air, and the timing for item catches is a lot easier.
Jump Cancel Upsmash
Still in, you can also dash and then duck and up smash, obviously
Jump Cancel Grab
Apparently still in, although certainly more difficult to do (at least with the characters we tried with) but that could be the fact that they possibly jump faster...?
Jump Cancel SHINE
You CAN jump cancel shine, although its more difficult and slightly laggier. You have to actually HOLD down b to be able to jump out of it, and it is a little bit slower.
Possibly for teh demo only, but l canceling seemed to be out. However, it also seemed like everything was juts canceling automatically (hopefully juts for the demo) in teh fact that things were ending much quicker then they seemed like they should have been. oh wellz, if its out its out, but it may have just been on the demo like that
It exists, but because of the floatiness of the characters it seems like its going to be less useful
haven't seen it yet, but only because we are still getting used to edgeguarding, i imagine it will be in though, because smash di is FAR easier and seems like it'd be easier to do because wallteching is still in
obviously out silly lol
well... we didn't really see a lot of meteors, and we didn't exactly see any cancels, so we will keep our eyes open for this one
or spikes, still in obviously
Still in, still basically the same, some characters seem to have better, faster rolls than other characters (metaknight for example)
seems to be more sheild hitstun, but its not like we are going to be breaking any sheilds with it (well, i'm sure we will find a way lol)
Still in, still viable n_n
dunno if it starts on one frame, but it starts awfully quick XD in the air theres a nice little stall you can do... ok so in melee if you just drop and shine let go shine let go shine let go it takes quite a bit in between sihnes, well in this one that in itself is MUCH faster, on one fulljump you can probably fall with about ten shines in the air XD
Shine still spikes, Romeo of socal got he first shinespike of brawl (at least as far as we know XD)
uhhh basically still in i suppose XD
still in, and a LOT more effective (from what we saw) it seemed easier to do like survival DI, but harder to di out of combos, basically what that means is, we didn't know waht would combo so we couldn't di out of it LOL
You can still tech, you can still walltech (even on ceilings yes) and you can still tech left/right/in place also, basically the same thing, and i'll be testing the timing and seeing if you can tech within a second of eachother now (or if it will register like that) you can also still walljump tech
Still in, you can wiggle and get out of your tumbling animation faster
Still in, Mario, Samus and possibly diddy (but i really cant remember lol)
CONTROVERSY. Wavedashing in and of itself in the same fassion seems to be out completely. HOWEVER. we saw some waveLANDING, but it wasn't done in the same fassion, it seems to be somehow arial based, so we are still working on it. we've also figured out a way to possibly wavedash.
Ink's did an awesome footstool jump edgeguard on mike the haze. it was tight. that is all LOL (unknown if it is meteor cancelable, seems like mike haze TRIED to up b to cancel it, but it didn't look like he could)
You can crawl, i did it with bowser and we all had a good laugh. i seriously didn't bother looking for any applications of that, we had other things to do, but i'll get on that asap.
Its closer to 64 in terms of gameplay, but its not exactly like it. It's like if you smashed melee and 64 together this is sort of what you get. its a new game folks, its not melee 2.0, its brawl.
doesn't seem to be in *shrug* (other than klaw yeayuhs)
In and awesome
Mario - Pipe
Bowser - Just freaking walks out of fire its tight lol
(more in a moment)
every character has THREE taunts from what i saw, although some say four, i wasn't too concerned, i just like bowsers taunts (actually almost all of the new ones are awesome haha)
(i'll upload this in a minute)
Edge Cancelled airials
I wasn't good enough to find out LOL, we'll work on that more tomorrow, but i imagine this will be in
OoS (out of sheild)
you can up b out of sheild, you can up smash out of sheild, you can grab out of sheild, you can jump out of sheild (NOT YOU YOSHI LOLOLOL sucks to be yoshi again)
Still in, and there is something more advanced taht we've made up as well, it can be done out of a technique we are calling the Ink Drop (because ink's discovered it) its basically a dashing pivot, i'll talk about that later
tapping somebody who is on teh ground does NOT make them stand, sorry, but thunders combo is out haha
Yoshi double jump knockback resitance
still in, rejoice yoshis haha
General knockback restistance (heavy armor)
heavy armor, ike has a lot of it. lol. seriously. a lot. bowser's got some but i cant see a lot of application of it, theres a lot of that stuff that is hard to test lol "hit me while i'm doing every move at every poitn of the move to see if i take hitstun"
appears to be IN actually haha, weird eh?
Bomb Jumping with samus
appears to be in, but its a lot harder from what i saw
we got very little fludd info, but theres no damage, just knockback, we were more concerned with the rest of mario's rape. we will test more later
Peach turnip pulls
NEAL PULLED A BEAMSWORD lolol seems to be basically the same thing
alright time for some seperate notes we just got, things are just getting started on these notes XD
Bowser has heavy armor on the start of his down b
Flame cancel is IN.
Mario can chaingrab with downthrow
Pikachu can SORT of chaingrab with downthrow
sonic is very very fast but also awkward, its not like fox/cf fast in melee, its something new and weird. he seems fairly laggy, but he's SUPER quick moving around the stage
you can airdodge grapple still (not surprising, but still sometihng to report eh? haha)
fox's lasers have been nerfed hardcore in how far they go they really do not go far AT ALL.
you can STAND ON BOXES!!!!! lol HUGEEE news! its crazy! you can also like hit them around without them breaking right away, pretty cool little feature.
Link's bombs will kill now in super sudden death mode
Link's final smash only hits one character
you CAN shorten your over b as fox
Link's down air SOMETIMES bounces, but smoetimes doesn't *shrug*
you cant do a rising tornado with mario (its his down air so taht'd be weird lol)
you can use the fludd in the air
missile cancels seemed to be out, but hugo said he saw somebody do one *shrug*
you CAN moonwalk! weird huh? XD
time for the new advanced techniques
(hugs was the first one to bring attention to a more or less obvious edgehog technique after a little bit of play
basically you can just walk off and grab the ledge, or you can dash off adn grab the ledge right away, or you can roll and grab the ledge, or you can dash sheild slide then grab the ledge.
you just walk off/slide/whatever off and then hold towards the stage, and you grab on right away. the applications are many, and it is very useful for edgeguarding/hogging
THIS is the big one folks
you konw that clip where yohsi just randomly falls over tehn rolls?
well, thats the Ink drop. discovered by inks with applications soon to follow. alright you know how we had some ideas for a version of wavedashing, well this is oen of them.
The ink drop opens up for a DASH pivot. you can dash past somebody and instantly turn around and grab them if you ink drop into a reverse grab. its beautiful. dashing pivots is BIG.
basically to ink drop you do a poorly timed dash dance, you dash far enough where your dash dance doesn't work, then you try to turn around, you should just fall over, thats an ink drop, but basically you can ink drop cancel with grabs and attack and what not to turn around and do moves, its quite seckzy
this is all i can remember specifically for now, i'll get some character specific stuff up later
oh, peach's dsmash sucks. a lot.
Neal = Peach
Hugo = Samus
Neal vs Hugs.
Super Sudden Death Mode.
Peach = Dsmash
Samus = SURVIVES. AND EASILY.
Samus = win.
yeah, its horrendous.
just as fast though *shrug* lol
more info coming!
One last update, i'm the best bowser in teh world in brawl, i was raping people. Best player there (no joke)
character specific update coming in like 15 minutes
OH before i forget, hover/floating with like pit and metaknight is weird, you have to push down to get them to float, its just not intuitive XD
Mario is freaking RAPE. seriously top tier material, his combos are way too good, and he's got some nice edgeguards, from what we saw mario is rape sauce, very natural feeling, he's got a lot going for him.
we didn't do a lot with fludd itself.
Mario's fair has a nice little priority, if you hit them while his fist is above 90degrees or whatever you want to call it (horizontal) it will have doc style knockback, if he hits you while you are below that point he will hit you down.
Mario's fsmash is noticably slower *shrug*
mario feels and looks more like his 64 counterpart than the melee version, but he's combo crazy.
we didn't get a lot of DK stuff actually, we are going to get more of that tomorrow methinks, but his up air is the same and he still has cargo... dk seems basically the same haha
Hugo played samus a lot
samus has a massively improved forward air, it combos 64 style, her up smash is also similar to the 64 version but its not really strong or anything, it just seems to have better priority.
doesn't seem like you can start as ZSS (its a demo though folks)
hugo didn't like zss, mainly because he wanted to learn normal samus XD
you cant charge her neutral b in the air, missiles look weird, but theres still a smash one and a homing version
Trevyn/zeralid played exclusively link
Link seems very similar to his melee form, moreso than his brawl form.
his up b does not semi-spike, and his charged up b seems less than useful (but we all could've assumed that lol)
link's arrows are much faster
link's down air and up air are basically teh same thing as in melee
link's final smash is rape. its way too cool. LOL
we'll get more of the character specific info on him tomorrow also
sorry guys, fox is not good. not. good.
his up air is combo oriented, but you wont be getting low % kills with it
fox's shine still does knockback, but seems to knock people down now, as of now the application seems not that great because of no waveshine but *shrug*
fox dies after over b if you dont hit the edge and you are off the stage, its just like his up b haha
fox is generally just horrible actually, he's quick but he's way floatier, so he's not like up and down quick at all, up throw up air is impossible, his up throw is just HORRIBLE lol
fox got mad nerfs, mid/low tier character from waht we've seen (but obviously, we dont play the game at its peak after one day right? XD)
her dsmash sucks
still have turnip variation
can at LEAST pull beam swords
peach can still float at ground level and all that jazz, shes still fairly good but her dsmash sucks a lot
seems like her final smash is ONLY the singing one where everyone falls asleep, it puts delicious peaches all over the stage for her to heal with but you can wake up pretty fast and eat some yourself lol
Yoshi's up b goes up! WOW! but very very little, his eggz are still pretty good, and you can use it over and over, it still gains the same height, but its not fast enough to stall or anything
yoshi still has the "double jump crouch cancel" effect, which is nice
you cant double jump cancel airs, which is a huge hinderance T-T
You cant jump out of sheild, poor yoshi, when will you catch your break
WOW i have way to much bowser info for this update, sooooooon though
first off, bowser is better. clearly better.
up b out of sheild is still just as rape, its nice to have that in my back pocket, you CAN fortress cancel, although it seems slower and less useful (also the down slant, sorry guys, but it doesn't seem to work T-T)
flame cancel is in, wtf is that in for LOL i love it
firebreath in general is much faster to activate and much much less laggy (seems a lot of stuff is like that)
his fair is much faster, you can short hop fair and double jump if i'm remembering correctly
his bair is awkward, but likely still as good, i just dont know how to apply it as well just yet
bowser's up air has a MASSIVE decrease in range actuall, but its still WICKED strong, a LOT of my kills were through the up air
bowser's down air is basically the same move
Bowser's grabs are essentially the same, although because of teh floatiness the dthrow seems like its less effective (no real tech chase there lol)
bowser's dash grab has WAY less range T-T
Bowser's klaw is really cool. really really cool. nice little suicide grab if you want to do that (i did a few times XD)
Bowser's down b is better, but still not that great *shrug* you can grab the ledge with it too btw
bowser's better, he doesn't raelly die. LOL
i dont know waht else to post about him, i loved him and i lost like 1 match as him XD
best brawler in the world suckas, definitely teh best bowser n_n
uhhhh i saw a ton of pit matches but i dont even know what to say, pit seems like a very good character, but nothing TOO stand out, like by brawl standards probably high tier, but not top tier, but who knows *shrug*
more info on pit tomorrow probably
TOP TIER yeayuhz!!
metaknight is one of the only characters that DOESNT seem overly floaty, he's very quick left and right, and very quick up and down. his float/hover thing is pretty awesome
very noob friendly, combos combos combos, he's got mad priority and power to boot, he's pretty freaking awesome too XD
metaknight has no glaring weaknesses, although vs my bowser metaknight couldn't kill him until very, very, VERY high percents (but people had trouble killing me anyways haha i actually was pretty good at brawl)
metaknight's down b doesn't reflect, its a teleport punish, its pretty tight, but it seems like it'd be really hard to apply, you can teleport any direction though, which is pretty cool. (like diagonal up and down and stuff, its nice)
uhhh i dont know a lot about diddy either XD
more info later
he seems to be pretty combo friendly, not as abnormal as they made him sound before we played though *shrug*
Ike is freaking horrendous in 1 v 1
he is SO. SO. SLOW. and yeah, this is coming from teh bowser main, his moves are freaking HORRIBLY slow, but this guy is PACKED with no flinch frames, and he is SUPER powerful. he's rape in the ffa's though, killing people at massively low percentages
but he's probably better than we give him credit for, but that up b is a horrible recovery move XD straight up, straight down. its like kirby's in melee but you cant move anywhere horizontally at all, so i suppose its more like luigis XD
sonic is good, fast and a little awkward, he's probably high tierish by melee standards. he's probably the most awkward character at this point, he's super quick, even up and down (so he's not to floaty) but he seems sorta laggy, his combos are unconventional and weird...
but yeah, sonic is definitely good, he can do airials and stuff after his up b, which makes edgeguarding a little bit more tough, but his up b also like crushes momentum *shrug* he's still a very good character from what i've seen
theres soem good ones
stand out ones are probably link's dark link, metaknight has an awesome like red eye glow color, peach still has daisy as a costume actually
mario has firesuit mario costume available, its really really cool!
the new taunts are rape, i love them. all of them
stages... nothing to outlandish, nothing raelly seems like it'd be banned instantly otehr than the like brinstar style stage with lava, because the lava like comes all over the stage its weird
most of the stages are cool, but we played mostly on battlefield to try and learn the game w/o dealing with stage hazards to much (oh also lylat, i thought that stage was awesome, and theres really nothing to watch out for there, its really cool)
small updates still coming tonight.
INK DROP CLARIFICATION.
the important part is not the falling down, the important part is that you can CANCEL the falling down, so you can basically do anything out of a dash, reverse grabbing and smash attacks and stuff like that, or you can just fall on your face for soem sort of trick (i dont know how taht could really be useful) but a DASHING PIVOT is huge.
GIMPYFISH MONEY MATCHED HUGO IN THE FIRST BRAWL MONEY MATCH EVER.
BOWSER VS SAMUS.
GIMPYFISH IS VICTORIOUS, NO JOHNS HUGO.
updates after day 2
alright fine. i was exaggerating a little bit when i talked about nerfed characters XD
time to get some real character specific impressions.
he's really not that bad XD, not quite the best character, but he's got combos, a good dash dance game, decent grabs, and good kill moves, his shine HAS been severely nerfed, but its really not that bad. Fox is still good, he's just not one of the best. His lasers dont cancel upon landing, but if you wanted you can short hop tripple laser, but his short hop double laser is still fairly effective because it ends before you land anyways. his up air is more of a combo oriented move this time instead of a kill move, you wont kill with that until MUCH higher percentages. fox's fair is actually really good, all of the hits will hit soembody if the first one does (well, maybe you can di out, who knows) but his throws seem to have a worse setup. he's almost as floaty as everyone else in this game, so its a little weird to control him at first.
he's definitely got potential, and his dash dance grab game is pretty good. but up throw up air is unfortunately impossible (dthrow techchase is nice though XD)
alright so peaches dsmash is worse, HOWEVER, peach herself is freaking rape.
Peach's dash attack is changed so it hits twice now, has similar priotity to in melee, but also sets up in a fassion like sheik's ftilt does. its really really good. peach can combo like crazy, one of the best characters i'd say (behind mario and metaknight at least from the level of gameplay we are at now XD)
ALSO, theres a new feature in this game. you can grab items while doing airials. now at first, this might not seem like a big deal. but peach can throw a turnip, do a fair, and grab the turnip MID FAIR to have it ready to be thrown again, oh yeah, did we mention? float canceling is still in.
Peach has combos. oh yeah, peach's forward throw? you know how its really good in melee? well its BETTER in brawl, it kills at lower percent than most moves we saw, its easier to ko with this than with link's up b thats for sure haha
her over b also has a substantial buff, in addition to being able to over b sweetspot with peach, its quick to activate and its not particularly laggy.
Peach can still pull stitch faces and all other variations of turnips, also she can pull mr saturn and the incredibly overpowered new beam swords. (also, neal pulled two stitchfaces in a row, how cool is neal?)
oh also, her up b, when you fast fall it its not nearly as fast, but when you are actually floating you fall even slower, so its sort of a trade off *shrug*
metaknight is (on the surface level) easy easy easy. big priority, easy combos, quick airials, amazing recovery. he's overall just very very good, obviously we aren't really THAT amazing at the game yet (XD) but metaknight is clearly one of the better characters. his grabs are really similar to kirby's in melee *shrug*
he's one of the faster characters when it comes to up and down movement, which seems to be a big deal because of how floaty everyone is.
metaknight seems to have a little bit of trouble killing the heavier characters though
mario is hot stuff. he's really, really good. he can combo like crazy, he's got good edgeguarding, he's plenty fast (although not nearly as fast on the ground as say sonic or fox) but he's got a lot of qiuck comboing airials. mario seems to be one of the only characters where you can still combo out of his grabs legitimately, as well as having a chaingrab (at least on some characters at this point)
surprisingly mario's fludd is seemingly completely useless, its better to not even take it out lol you cant angle it even close to well enough to edgeguard with it, but i'm sure by the time the game comes out we'll have thought of something...
yeah, mario is good for sure. yep. also he has a new fireflower costume, its pretty tight.
alright, i said he sucked, and... well i was mainly talking about how he's going to be once we all figure out what we are doing. he's slow but MASSSIVELY powerful, he kills at WAY lower percents than bowser does, but he's also very very slow. very slow. like he can get away with it when we are still figuring out what is going on, but it seems like once we all get faster ike will just be garbage.... but who knows, its a demo right? haha, and we aren't QUITE at the peak of brawl gameplay just yet hahaha
but yeah, as of now, ike is just purely awesome, but he seems pretty bad.
(oh, he RAPES in free for alls though LOL)
those are all the like main character specific updates i'll give for now *shrug* i'll update again with more stuff tommorrow, i'm too tired to give all i found today haha
UPDATE AFTER DAY THREE!!!!!!!!!!
my update after day three is for me to tell you all CALM DOWN. i'm gonna TRY to make this thing all beautiful and seckzy after tomorrow, i'll make it all purty and nice
i'm going to be recording a video blog of sorts of me talking about all of the stages items characters gameplay mechanincs competitive possibities and the casual gameplay, but that will take a llliiiitttttlllleeee bit longer.
but it'll give you all something to watch before brawl comes out haha