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  1. #11
    CUSTOM LeWaffles's Avatar
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    you should use someone else...
    I think brawl is more balanced simply because it is much slower paced. That gives slow characters a much better chance, look what happened to Bowser. It also sets up the combos really well. No longer existing "adv. Techs" make the game so that any player using any character may execute techniques without having the ridiculously fast moves that were limited to only certain characters. When I play this game, I start to not like Melee, you can see its flaws when you play Brawl.

    formerly known as wii-fi

  2. #12
    An Instant Classic LevesqueIsKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushroomedmario
    i agree, no matter who i use, i usually get the same results against my friends that play the same person over and over

    they seem way more balanced in this game, and yoshi is a lot better, people just says he sucks because they don't like his playing style, but people who main yoshi could be really good with him
    Of course they can be good...for a Yoshi user. And THAT is the point. A Yoshi user with X amount of skill WILL NOT BEAT a Fox user with X amount of skill. In fact, they wouldn't even come close. And no, Yoshi wasn't improved much at all.

    And for whoever asked, no, I can't just 'do something else' with Falcon. Its not 'a different playing style', its a style that demands you be significantly better than a Pit player in order to beat them half the time.

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  3. #13
    Shmunior Member Chewy's Avatar
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    I think that it is fairly balanced it's just that some characters have a much steeper learning curve than others. Which pretty much means that it will take more skill to play those characters though...

    Some characters are much easier to use but I think if someone masters one of the harder ones they could beat those who have mastered the easier ones. Although some characters remain pretty much unused(I have NEVER seen anybody play as jigglypuff online), so I guess I would have to somewhat agree with your argument Leve.
    Last edited by Chewy; 03-24-2008 at 07:02 AM.
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  4. #14
    WiiChat Member Douten's Avatar
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    Yes tier exists and will always exist if you're going to compare characters. But no player in real life both have the same skill, even if they do they will react differently and learn a disadvantage/advantage to the other player. I'm not saying based on that you can use Yoshi and beat every pro there is, but based on that the game isn't so heavily tiered that people will only use certain character to win, especially in casual play.

    If it's a style that requires you to be a lot better than Pit then so be it, find that style and use it. Or are you saying that style does not exist in Falcon? If so, then there must be other character he has advantage over. I do believe it's just a steeper learning curve that might be discouraging, of course tier counts too, but not so crazy that when played casual it'll still be a problem.

    I play with Jiggly, but I don't main her so I don't play her often online, but I do sometimes : )
    Last edited by Douten; 03-24-2008 at 10:50 AM.

  5. #15
    WiiChat Member Lugia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevesqueIsKing
    Of course they can be good...for a Yoshi user. And THAT is the point. A Yoshi user with X amount of skill WILL NOT BEAT a Fox user with X amount of skill. In fact, they wouldn't even come close. And no, Yoshi wasn't improved much at all.

    And for whoever asked, no, I can't just 'do something else' with Falcon. Its not 'a different playing style', its a style that demands you be significantly better than a Pit player in order to beat them half the time.
    sometimes i feel that way when using ganon. its like the game is punishing you for picking a certain char half the time.

    style? i dunno about falcon but when youre ganon you try chasing someone around a map. you dont have many options at your disposal.

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  6. #16
    CUSTOM LeWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevesqueIsKing
    Of course they can be good...for a Yoshi user. And THAT is the point. A Yoshi user with X amount of skill WILL NOT BEAT a Fox user with X amount of skill. In fact, they wouldn't even come close. And no, Yoshi wasn't improved much at all.

    And for whoever asked, no, I can't just 'do something else' with Falcon. Its not 'a different playing style', its a style that demands you be significantly better than a Pit player in order to beat them half the time.
    I totally disagree, first off it's a well known fact that because of the slow down and because he is weaker, Fox has been Nerfed since Melee. On the other hand Yoshi has gotten much stronger in power, a bit slower (but everyone is slower than in melee) and he has a third jump. His Egg tossing hasn't been as good but its a third jump so its alright. I used to use Yoshi in Melee and I killed my friends and I would win maybe 40-60 against my fairly competitive friend using Fox. Trust me yoshi's smash and the rest of his attacks are much stronger than before.

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  7. #17
    WiiChat Member spiff-ssbb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHgamer
    it's less balance, buti consider that a good thing. i dont ever wanna see ike lose 2 jigglypuff. :o-watch out ike....
    ...what the.... why would you ever WANT less balance?

    anyways back to the thread:

    i've spent this weekend trying to make captain falcon usable competatively... i've made a FEW advancements... such as timing the knee and the d air (whatever its called) a beat later for grounded opponents... but all in all i agree... poor guy got owned by the floaty short hops and L cancel being... canceled.

    i also agree that spacies and marth will remain at the top since mind games for spacies and spacing for marth played a bigger role than the shffl in melee. but i do believe that some new comers will join them in the upper ranks... most namely ike, pit maybe, meta maybe, and toon link. but yes there are some major issues i fear with pro play and discovering the many weaknesses of many ,many characters as compared to some that i can see becoming seemingly untouchable. and unfortunately i've found that most of the characters that will become very low tier in my opinion are the vets.

    for an example of why:
    in melee you could short hop with any character and do any arial and be almost guarantee'd to connect it (barring a shield or dodge obviously) but with the new engine it can only be done with a limited list of characters... poor poor CF

    to Wi-fi:
    i disagree with you.
    the fox nerf was more of a misunderstanding. everyone assumed that his up kick was nerfed because his up kick wasnt killing at 50% anymore. but they forgot that after you spam a move it reduces the knockback a lot. his kick is still own... if you use it situationally. its not a nerf its a change in the physics engine.
    and yoshi's f smash was always strong. this isnt a buff its a carry over. and egg throw can only be called as much of a third jump as IC and their ice burg thing... n special... sorry dont know what to call it
    Last edited by spiff-ssbb; 03-24-2008 at 11:13 AM.
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  8. #18
    WiiChat Member ski_big's Avatar
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    they nerfed samus so bad its not even funny.. link is rigged if the person knows how to play him

  9. #19
    ssb4life mushroomedmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevesqueIsKing
    Of course they can be good...for a Yoshi user. And THAT is the point. A Yoshi user with X amount of skill WILL NOT BEAT a Fox user with X amount of skill. In fact, they wouldn't even come close. And no, Yoshi wasn't improved much at all.

    And for whoever asked, no, I can't just 'do something else' with Falcon. Its not 'a different playing style', its a style that demands you be significantly better than a Pit player in order to beat them half the time.
    that logic isn't really good....

    because if they both have x amount of skill on their respective characters, than they'll be even, otherwise, x wouldn't be measurable

    really the only people that can say if yoshi got buffed or nerfed are people who main yoshi, as he is such a unique character

    and from what i've seen, yoshi mainers are really happy with yoshi, as he's gotton buffed a lot

    although this isn't much, here's a vid of a yoshi beating fox

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80lv19iSjE

    and a vid of him owning a marth

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3RAb...eature=related
    Last edited by mushroomedmario; 03-24-2008 at 11:39 AM.


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  10. #20
    An Instant Classic LevesqueIsKing's Avatar
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    Marioman & Wii-Fi

    No offence, but I didn't bother watching the videos. No one here has said that a Yoshi can't beat a top tier, but that it is harder than it should be, which is unfair.

    Yoshi was significantly hurt by the removal of many advanced technique's in Brawl, he still has no significant recovery, and his double jump has been heavily nerfed. Here are some character ratings from SmashBoards from a reliable source, whom had a team playing Brawl for nearly 3 days straight, carefully examining each and every character (and they're still updating it):
    Yoshi:
    Yoshi. is. (Still.) the. worst. All moves have been nerfed, it seems. Still no recovery. No DJC makes him to slow and easy to kill. Without DI Airdodging, he's a joke.
    Edit 1: His double jump has half as many juggernaut frames as melee, however, he can use his UB two times. His Uair, and Bair have no lag on landing, and the Bair does pretty sick damage. The Fsmashes range was decreased, but it will ko at around 110% all in all. +2.0
    Edit 2: Bair combos increase the game further. easy to link into smashes for kills. +1.0
    Power: 5
    Combo ability: 5
    Speed: 5
    Knockback: 4
    Weight: 5
    Recovery: 3
    Rating: 4/10
    The thing with Fox is that [similarly to Marth] with everything they nerfed, they also improved another thing. In terms of nerfing Fox, very little was accomplished. This is from the same source:
    Fox:
    I'm sick of the **** spacies taking spots on the top tiers of smash. Fox is powerful, and fast. His new blaster does more damage and it's faster. He still has his Dair Shine, even qithout L-canceling. You can still shine people off the edge, over and over. His Usmash is nerfed, but he has Falco's Fsmash from melee. (power included.) His UB got ze nerf a bit, but the sideB is longer. With time, I'm sure he'll be the best in the game. he always is. v_v
    Edit 1: God****it. Broken as hell. Nair shining works like crazy. Can combo against walls with ease. triple lasers do decent damage, and he can still gimp like he's getting paid to. +1.5
    Power: 7
    Combo ability: 8
    Speed: 7
    Knockback: 8
    Weight: 6
    Recovery: 7
    Rating 8.5/10
    I really didn't want to do this, because I didn't want this to turn into a discussion over tier lists [that will go in circles and accomplish nothing]. I am simply using this as evidence, and if you can find a source backing you up you can post it as well.
    Last edited by LevesqueIsKing; 03-24-2008 at 02:39 PM.

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