Low Tier Characters ftw

[anax4aero]

Of the three pokemon, Ivysaur is easily the worst, especially when it comes to match-ups, so as a result most competitive brawlers would prefer to skip her. Squirtle and Charizard are 80% of the time more effective in getting the job done.

I'm not saying Ivysaur is bad. Personally, I like Ivysaur and I try to use all three equally. But sometimes risking Ivysaur in matches were Squirtle and Charizard own is not worth it.

[Ads]

[Splash_King]

Must be called Baton Passing, as it's an actual pokemon move that fits said technique. ... Even though naming the technique after a fellow Brawler is also good. >.>

... Aside from that, as GC said, it's a shame this can only be taken advantage of on a few stages. But hey, that just gives a self-helping counterpick for PT. It really is unfair that PT's are forced to switch after awhile, and just get owned unless they just took a stock off the opponent (unless it was, say, a meteor smash with Charizard). It's still helpful either way, though.

... It'd just be easier if everyone had homebrew and had the pokemon are never tired code. But, meh. >.>

IVYSAUR IS BEAST IN BRAWL+!

most competitive brawlers would prefer to skip her

Starter pokemon, Ivysaur included, are male 95% of the time. I doubt Ivysaur is a she. [/completely useless nerd fact]

[anax4aero]

Must be called Baton Passing, as it's an actual pokemon move that fits said technique. ... Even though naming the technique after a fellow Brawler is also good. >.>

... Aside from that, as GC said, it's a shame this can only be taken advantage of on a few stages. But hey, that just gives a self-helping counterpick for PT. It really is unfair that PT's are forced to switch after awhile, and just get owned unless they just took a stock off the opponent (unless it was, say, a meteor smash with Charizard). It's still helpful either way, though.

... It'd just be easier if everyone had homebrew and had the pokemon are never tired code. But, meh. >.>

IVYSAUR IS BEAST IN BRAWL+!



Starter pokemon, Ivysaur included, are male 95% of the time. I doubt Ivysaur is a she. [/completely useless nerd fact]

Although I agree that Pokemon fatigue and forced switch often put PT in a bad position, overall I think that it is helpful to know all three for match-up purposes and such, since having three characters within a match at your disposal is quite benefitial. I can see why Sakurai-san made this system, seeing what happened to zelda/sheik.

Nevertheless, I do agree that it would have been nicer to give people the option to pick one pokemon and stick with it, even thought it would not affect me since I like the PT system. Also, fatigue does not affect speed or movement, meaning that for general defensive purposes fatigue is not severely harmful, just inconvenient. I've seen people who keep fighting even when their pokemon look like they're dying.

Lastly, most people refer to Ivysaur as she/her, so I guess it just stuck.

[Splash_King]

Nevertheless, I do agree that it would have been nicer to give people the option to pick one pokemon and stick with it, even thought it would not affect me since I like the PT system. Also, fatigue does not affect speed or movement, meaning that for general defensive purposes fatigue is not severely harmful, just inconvenient. I've seen people who keep fighting even when their pokemon look like they're dying.

Fatique is a problem in the counter pick department. Odds of 3 stocking someone before your poke becomes fatiqued are nearly impossible when facing someone of equal or greater level, after all. For an example, let's say Squirtle has an advantage over G&W (again, just an example, I doubt he does). Squirtle will obviously have to switch out eventually, or face having a lot of problems KOing someone. Being in a position where you easily can't KO the second lightest character in the game is pretty sad. So, now you have to switch.

However, Ivysaur has a disadvantage against G&W, meaning you'll have to switch to Charizard. This leaves you open for an attack while you make two switches, one attack guarenteed to land, unless you (can) take advantage of a Baton Pass. Or let's say you're in the worst position; G&W has an advantage over both Ivysaur and Charizard. Not only could you get hurt on the switch, but you'll be at a disadvantage until you can switch back to Squirtle.

A lot of hypothetical nonsense, yes, but they're very possible situation(s). One of my points point being, fatigue is a hindrance, and so is switching. My biggest point, though, is that PT can't counter pick properly if the said counter pick can't stay out the entire match. Having three different characters to use is only helpful at the start of a single match, where you don't know who your opponent will select. After that, you'll probably only need one poke to "counter pick", even though it's only a temporary solution.

Homebrew is incredibly handy at this point, so you don't have to switch since you'll never be fatigued. I feel this is a major reason why PT will never make it high on tier lists. If your character can't counter pick properly, you're in a bad position in competitive play.

This is a bit off topic, but I completely support homebrew usage in any and all tournies (big tournies usually do, anyways), and especially pokes never becoming fatigued.

[anax4aero]

I believe that there should be tournaments with both possibilities, original brawl and Brawl+. Fatigue and forced switch are a hindrance that came with Pokemon Trainer, and it's a hindrance for Pokemon Trainer mains to deal with, just like each character has its downs. And I really don't mind the increase in difficulty, because the reason I use this character is because I want that challenge.

Still, I am open to playing Brawl+, but thinking of it separately as I think of Melee. Also, fatigue or not, Squirtle can still work its mindgames and gimping, two things that make him a great character. Even a fresh squirtle has trouble killing due to the difficulty in landing an Usmash, so the only killing move left, besides gimping, is Down throw. It is possible to land enough percentage, throw, and switch to Ivy who has an easy time finishing enemies off, regardless of match-ups.

But, like you say, all of this is so hypothetical that it borders on the edge of useless.

[GCommander]

I consider all 3 Pokemon Male.
I fought a really good Ivysaur player on AiB yesterday.
If you are using Ivysaur and you launched your opponent pretty far could you have enough time to Batton Pass and Meteor Smash with Charizard? And you are standing by the edge of the stage.

[bulbacos]

Sonic - sonic sucks
Sheik - sheik is good
Bowser-bowser rocks
Zelda - zelda is one of the best
Pokémon Trainer - sucks badly
Ike - sucks
Lucas - sucks
Mario - hes ok
Ness- hes ok 2
Yoshi- yoshi rocks
Samus- one of the worst
Jigglypuff - 2nd worst
Captain Falcon - hes ok
Link - link is the second best for me
Ganondorf- sucks

there is definately something wrong with this list

[GCommander]

Sonic - sonic sucks
Sheik - sheik is good
Bowser-bowser rocks
Zelda - zelda is one of the best
Pokémon Trainer - sucks badly
Ike - sucks
Lucas - sucks
Mario - hes ok
Ness- hes ok 2
Yoshi- yoshi rocks
Samus- one of the worst
Jigglypuff - 2nd worst
Captain Falcon - hes ok
Link - link is the second best for me
Ganondorf- sucks

there is definately something wrong with this list

You really don't know what you are talking about do you? Ganondorf sucks? Have you ever played a skilled Ganondorf player before? Do you play skilled people because it doesn't look like you do.

[anax4aero]

Sonic - sonic sucks
Sheik - sheik is good
Bowser-bowser rocks
Zelda - zelda is one of the best
Pokémon Trainer - sucks badly
Ike - sucks
Lucas - sucks
Mario - hes ok
Ness- hes ok 2
Yoshi- yoshi rocks
Samus- one of the worst
Jigglypuff - 2nd worst
Captain Falcon - hes ok
Link - link is the second best for me
Ganondorf- sucks

there is definately something wrong with this list

First of all, welcome to wiichat.
Second, if I were you I would avoid posting such useless comments, as they add nothing to the conversation, and as far as I know no one here knows you well enough to really care about your opinion.
Third, this is a discussion thread, not an opinion thread. Meaning that if you want to say your opinion, back it up with facts, stats, and such so that people can take you seriously, and so we can all have a mature discussion.
Lastly, that list has been worked on for months, it's the third version so far, and it was done by people who probably know about this game a lot better than you. Or so I am assuming from such a noobish comment.

@GC: I would not want to do that for a couple of reasons. As you may remember, Charizard is left with no jumps from batton passing. Also, if ivysaur sends people far enough, it is much more effective to just gimp their recovery by abusing Bair, Nair, or simply using Vine Whip to pull off an effective edge-hog.
Batton Passing is a potentially awesome technique, but I wouldn't use it in every possible situation, or people will learn to counter it.

[GCommander]

Did you try doing the spike?
You know how you could dashattack cancel with Snake, Link, Wario, Falco, ect but could you do it with Squirtle?