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Thread: Super Smash Bros. 4

  1. #2871
    ♦ monado buster ♦ Neosquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splash_King View Post
    Rollout is a terribad move, even against nubs, unless they've the brain of a fly and don't understand that you can just jump over the move.
    Not really, I've used it to a lot of success with pretty much all ammeters I've played. They aren't playing very intelligently, but that's part of what being a noob is, no? The people I'm talking about aren't horrible players, I'd say average or slightly below average.

    Competitive moves can be made to look awesome. Awesome moves that're awesome because of gimmicks cannot be made t' be competitively viable.

    The competitive aspect of any fighting game is infinitely more important than pandering to the casuals since said casuals will play and enjoy the game regardless. The extra pandering isn't necessary to keep casuals happy, but balancing and other such competitivenesses is necessary to keep a competitive following happy.

    On that note, you're excluding the competitives from your point of view. Do ya think we want balance literally at the costs of aesthetics? Obviously not. Take M2K for example. He's been bloody obsessed with Mewtwo for years. In spite of this, he's never played 'em iin-tourney 'til the release of P:M. Why, ya ask? Because ya don't win tournaments as Mewtwo, he's a god-awful character. M2K would lose bags of money just for playin' his favorite character in-tournament, so he literally can't. Tournaments are his job and livelihood.

    As a competitive gamer, our character loyalty is challenged whenever said character ends up bein' poorly balanced and thus are right-shit. I stopped playin' Link in Brawl, my favorite character since Smash 64, because I was utterly sick of him bein' Hyrule-tier. It ain't fun bein' under a constant barrage of inescapable, likely-leading-to-a-0-death-gimp pressure. I didn't care that I could still use Link and consistently beat everyone I played with. He's such a bad character, it sucked the fun outta it for me. Imagine how all'a the Melee Falcon players felt come Brawl. Scar must'a been scarred for life.
    I guess this makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sold on Rollout leaving. I'm sure the move could be improved to the point of competitive viability. Besides, it's totally possible to makes Jiggs good even if Rollout still sucked. I don't know, while I'm not saying that your argument doesn't make sense, I also think there's good reason to keep Rollout, just having trouble putting my thoughts into words, ahaha.

    Every time someone implies a competitive players' aim is just to win, I have the most assuredly illogical urge t' slap the shit outta them.
    that was more of a deliberate exaggeration about the fact that competitive people tend to be more concerned about winning than casuals




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  2. #2872
    NNID: NandoS Captain's Avatar
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    I'm really competitive but as long as it's an even, exciting and fun match, I really don't care who wins.
    But on the other hand, people who play it for a lot of money might really care, that's true.

  3. #2873
    The Scrubbiest of Hunters Splash_King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    Not really, I've used it to a lot of success with pretty much all ammeters I've played. They aren't playing very intelligently, but that's part of what being a noob is, no? The people I'm talking about aren't horrible players, I'd say average or slightly below average.
    If they don't know how t' jump, they're horrible players lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    I'm not sold on Rollout leaving.
    ... That ain't what I was talkin' about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    I'm sure the move could be improved to the point of competitive viability.
    Obviously, but it won't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    Besides, it's totally possible to makes Jiggs good even if Rollout still sucked.
    She's never been good without relyin' on oh-so-broken Rest. Even Melee Jiggles wouldn't be high tier without wielding the constant threat of an instant KO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    I also think there's good reason to keep Rollout.
    For the sole sake of consistency, no other good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    competitive people tend to be more concerned about winning than casuals
    Inane prattle. Countless casuals play to win, and solely to win. In the same vein, competitive players do a little somethin' called "casuals": not playin' to win. For the lulz. Regularly.

    Don't try to label a group beyond what it labels itself as. We play to test ourselves, our game, and each other, not to win. In other words we play for fun, as does anyone else.

    ...

    Also money.

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  4. #2874
    NNID: NandoS Captain's Avatar
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    What if you instantly do a full roll-out, without having to charge it? Or would that be too OP?

  5. #2875
    ♦ monado buster ♦ Neosquid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splash_King View Post
    ... That ain't what I was talkin' about.
    I know, but you were arguing against my arguments I made for the purpose of defending Rollout, so I thought you might have agreed with MR, I wasn't totally sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    What if you instantly do a full roll-out, without having to charge it? Or would that be too OP?
    I don't know what to think of that.




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  6. #2876
    The Scrubbiest of Hunters Splash_King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    What if you instantly do a full roll-out, without having to charge it? Or would that be too OP?
    terribly op lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    I know, but you were arguing against my arguments I made for the purpose of defending Rollout, so I thought you might have agreed with MR, I wasn't totally sure.
    Oh no, not at all. If in an alternate dimension the decision was left to me, I'd buff the move rather than replace it. Would make it cancel-able. Not somethin' instant like a jump cancel, that'd be too good, but the ability to stop Rollout with an input. Like how Glides can be canceled with B.
    Neosquid likes this.

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  7. #2877
    Ace Attorney Mr. MR's Avatar
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    That Thunder looks like a combo continuer
    and as Karp said a nasty edge guard

    I think there is more of a combo focus in this smash game


    Now about Jiggs:
    In Melee she had 2 useful Specials; Rest and Pound
    Top Tier

    In Brawl she had 1 useful Special; Pound
    Bottom Tier

    Rollout and Sing cripple Jigglys moveset in Melee but she was still able to be a good character.
    After they crippled Rest she became unplayable.
    If they were to get rid of Rollout or Sing she could have a really good moveset

    Lets look at the Melee and Brawl Top Tier:
    Fox: 4 useful Specials. 2 of which are used for recovery
    Falco: 4 useful Specials. 2 of which are used for recovery

    Meta Knight: 4 useful Specials. 4 of which can be used for recovery.

    See a pattern here?





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  8. #2878
    ♦ monado buster ♦ Neosquid's Avatar
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    I never disagreed that (unbuffed) Rollout is taking up the moveslot for a potentially more useful move.




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  9. #2879
    Ace Attorney Mr. MR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosquid View Post
    I never disagreed that (unbuffed) Rollout is taking up the moveslot for a potentially more useful move.
    Overall a better Jigglypuff is a more fun Jigglypuff
    Being able to beat someone with a Pink Puff Ball Pokemon is fun enough.





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  10. #2880
    ♦ monado buster ♦ Neosquid's Avatar
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    I'm giving up on arguing about this because I don't know what to say anymore. All I'm going to say is that purrsonally I would prefer Rollout stay even if it isn't improved, though obviously I'd prefer to see it puffed more...I mean buffed.
    Splash_King likes this.




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