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  1. #221
    pull the trigger. AndThen?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Show me some proof that it causes schizophrenia and then we'll talk some more about that.
    http://bipolar.about.com/od/relatedd...schizo_pot.htm
    Last year, Netherlands researchers reviewed five studies and concluded that the use of marijuana (cannabis) approximately doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia. Because the studies excluded anyone with a history of psychosis and controlled for the use of other drugs, they were "able to show the specific effects of cannabis."
    http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blacer040615.htm
    The principal active ingredient in marijuana causes transient schizophrenia-like symptoms ranging from suspiciousness and delusions to impairments in memory and attention, according to a Yale research study.
    http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s777336.htm
    ...evidence suggests that in those people who are predisposed smoking cannabis can open the door to schizophrenia.
    It's easy to shut your ears to that though.

  2. #222
    Shmunior Member Chewy's Avatar
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    The top and the bottom ones are studies regarding the heavy use of Marijuana, which is ABUSE. Responsible casual use will not have the same results.

    From the top one:
    They found that heavy use of marijuana caused the type of abnormalities in certain areas of the brain as were found in the brains of the subjects with schizophrenia
    Key word: HEAVY USE


    The middle one states an obvious fact: everyone knows Marijuana makes you paranoid when you are on it. Here's a quote from it
    Some subjects developed symptoms resembling those of schizophrenia that lasted approximately one half hour to one hour.
    ^Only shows that it has temporary schizophrenia like effects. Everyone knows that.

    From the bottom one:
    George is a heavy dope smoker, he smokes twenty to fifty cones a day. Now he’s volunteered to be in Martin’s study.
    That is a ridiculously large amount of weed. I would think that someone would have some problems if they smoked that large of an amount. I could not even smoke that much if I tried.

    Legalization would possibly have a slight increase on casual use. However, I highly doubt it will cause a large amount of people to start abusing it heavily.

    Do not accuse me of shutting my ears to anything here when I have responded to all counter points here, whilst you have mostly just spewed out random articles on studies showing health defects.
    Last edited by Chewy; 02-27-2009 at 07:29 AM.
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  3. #223
    pull the trigger. AndThen?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    The top and the bottom ones are studies regarding the heavy use of Marijuana, which is ABUSE. Responsible casual use will not have the same results.
    Some would argue that doing drugs responsibly isn't possible.

    Key word: HEAVY USE
    That's two words.

    The middle one states an obvious fact: everyone knows Marijuana makes you paranoid when you are on it. Here's a quote from it
    ^Only shows that it has temporary schizophrenia like effects. Everyone knows that.
    Yay for giving oneself mental problems, temporary or not?

    From the bottom one:
    They were talking about it's effects on Mark, George wasn't schizophrenic.

    Mark:
    Mark is a startling example of what can go wrong. Hes now in his 30s, but after using cannabis for just 10 months in his late teens, something started to go wrong with his brain.

    "Oppressive voices, which were there 24 hours a day, seven days a week which never went away. Floorboards being syringes, stuck between floorboards injecting me with god knows what."

    It was the beginning of schizophrenia, which is still with him 16 years later.
    Do not accuse me of shutting my ears to anything here when I have responded to all counter points here, whilst you have mostly just spewed out random articles on studies showing health defects.
    Spewed out random articles? I'm just trying to look at this objectively. You asked for proof, I figured that's the way you'd want me to go about it.

  4. #224
    Shmunior Member Chewy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndThen? View Post
    Some would argue that doing drugs responsibly isn't possible.
    Well I believe those people are wrong. It's pretty easy to avoid daily use of a nonaddictive substance.


    That's two words.
    /facepalm

    Yay for giving oneself mental problems, temporary or not?
    I don't think that temporary problems should make a drug illegal in a world where most the drugs we have out now have side-effects that are worst than the thing they are curing.

    They were talking about it's effects on Mark, George wasn't schizophrenic.
    Whoops, mixed up the names, read that literally right as I got out of bed.
    Either way the studies are regarding heavy use which I do not support.
    Yeah he only did it for 10 months, but it was at an age while his brain was developing and I'm guessing he did it pretty frequently. They don't really give much details so I can't really go into this one too much.


    Spewed out random articles? I'm just trying to look at this objectively. You asked for proof, I figured that's the way you'd want me to go about it.
    Well these articles were actually relevant. I was referring to before how you really hadn't responded to any points but then just kind of spit out some articles about how it's bad for your lungs.


    Remember what happened when the US made alcohol illegal? People started to get together and have mob sponsored parties frequently for the sole purpose of drinking, drinking their asses off just because they can. Before binge drinking like this wasn't nearly as much of a problem. Just like now how many people get together for the sole purpose of smoking weed. I don't think keeping it illegal is doing much to help, people can still get it. It's profits are just sponsoring organized crime instead of the government now.
    Last edited by Chewy; 02-27-2009 at 08:24 AM.
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  5. #225
    WiiChat Member TheOneSpam's Avatar
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    I could barely make it through the first page of replies before having to say something that I hope has been said in the 10+ pages preceding my reply.

    IMO.
    Marijuana is not a "Gateway" drug, nor would Alcohol or Cigarettes.
    Stop being a bitch and accept responsability for your actions. If addicts did that, their addicion would not be harmful to others or society. Is the caffine or nicotine addiction destroying society? No. The people who CHOOSE to smoke are harming themselves. Same with FAT and LAZY people killing themselves daily.

    I smoke weed daily. I have been offered nearly every nameable drug, but I know how to say know even though I'm a chronic pot head. I've also done Salvia, Zoomers and Blotter (if you don't know what they are, you don't need to). All of which I did my due dilligence in researching and finding out the facts on how it affects your biology.

    I never jump into anything. I turned down cigs and weed the first times I was offered them in grade 9 at highschool. It wasn't until 4 and a half years later I decided I could try it. The revalation most people have is..
    It is cheaper than booze.
    It's less harmful than booze.
    It's easier to get than booze.
    No hangover from pot.
    The ability to function while baked, but not while drunk.

    Anyways, my only advice is to know what you are putting into your body. That's why I'll never do X no matter how often I'm around it, and its everywhere at the clubs.

    So no 'Drug' is a gateway drug. It is up to YOU to decide what you are willing to put in your body that has posative and negative results, from food to drugs, you pay the price. How much it costs, is up to you.
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  6. #226
    WiiChat Member TheOneSpam's Avatar
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    (i'm on page 8 now... had a few more comments)

    oh, and those who listen to their government and base their own morals of what to put into their body better realize they're actually listening to the lobbyists in congress winning the votes and keeping revolution down.

    Marijuana was made illegal because the cotton, and oil industries realized the damaging effects hemp fabric and hemp seed oil would have on their business. Even in WW2, hemp was allowed to be grown again and propaganda films were made for American farmers to grow hemp for the navy. The sails, the anchor ropes and all the ropes on the ships were hemp because of it's incredible strength.

    Hemp is cheaper and so much more efficient of a fiber that cotton is.

    Stop blindly following your government that has continually leading off the path of righteousness and look up the facts for yourself. Everyone here obviously has internet access. How about using it to educate yourself on the issues and gain knowledge from all perspectives.
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  7. #227
    An Instant Classic LevesqueIsKing's Avatar
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    ...The government is holding back your marijuana revolution? Anarchist much? xD

    I kid. But really, you painted a nice picture, but you're forgetting that the vast majority of Americans are idiots. You're obviously a very responsible, uh, pothead, but I would find it hard to believe that a significant portion of the, uh, pothead community, is as responsible and thoughtful in their endeavors as you are. So, having said this, I don't think it's so outrageous to think that marijuana could possibly be a gateway drug.

    Not to fit a mold,

    Not to join a trend,

    Not to follow a crowd


  8. #228
    Kryptonightingale Sixty's Avatar
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    Blindly following the government? I think that the government knows what it's doing. It doesn't purposely ignore the advice of people if there is an issue it will be dealt with. I hate people who think that the government are so powerful so they just do whatever they want, it actually tackles issues to help people. Keeps things in order. I would think that's what it's for. There isn't enough solid evidence to prove that marijuana should be legal for anything other than medicinal purposes.

    Believing that there would be an increased use if something is illegal is pathetic. Absolutely. There are people who wouldn't go near it sheerly because it's illegal. You're talking about alcohol being banned in like the 20's when the law actually couldn't handle that much. You don't think it has improved in a way at all?

    Abuse of any drug leads to problems, if you don't abuse it, there's pretty much no problems at all. You think that if we make every drug legal then people will only use an amount that wouldn't be considered abuse? No. People aren't like that.

    Oh, and, second hand smoking damages people too. Kthx.

  9. #229
    WiiChat Member TheOneSpam's Avatar
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    (Ok, i'm on page 10 now... a few more Points)

    The issue about the laws is true. It's not really legal anywhere. I've been to Amsterdam, got some good pot/shrooms stories from there. They tolerate the "soft drugs" or organic drugs, pot and mushrooms. In England when i was there, they actually allowed frech mushrooms to be sold in headshops, but apparently they couldn't be dried/prepared for ingestion. However, signs were posted that soon they wouldn't have been allowed to even sell em fresh, so we had some there too while we could

    Just like in Amsterdam, I have been to "Cafe"s where you are allowed to smoke pot/cigs on their patio in the back. They have bongs and vaporizers for you to borrow just like in Amsterdam and they sell food, drinks. They just don't actually sell the weed in the establishment. However, it has been tolerated in Canada nearly as much as the Netherlands.

    In recent court cases that made it to the supreme court of Ontario (not the Supreme court of Canada till it reaches its next level of appeals by the procecutor), it was deemed that the "smell of burnt/burning marijuana" is not constitutional grounds to search a person/place as it is only evidence of marijuana that had existed, and the implication of current possession no longer exists. Also, before that there was a case that made it to the same court of ontario that found it unconstitutional to make pot illegal for the masses, and legal for medical use, however the "coalition" (i forget the proper name for it) that was formed to provide marijuana to the medical patients was only public policy and not public law. And since there was no souce for medical patients to recieve marijuana from a legal source, the laws regarding the illegality of weed were found unconstitutional.

    This has not yet been appealed by the Supreme court of Canada which would make it binding precedent in all courts of canada, essentially legalizing marijuana, because the government is afraid that they will lose the case again in the highest court of canada and implicitly legalize weed. So this currently means that the courts of different provinces are free to set their own precident still. (Ironically, the judges decision on the latter case was influenced by a similar finding by the judge of the Supreme court of a seperate province (i forget which).


    Needless to say, it isn't as simple as it hurts people so the government made it illegal. There are obvious indiscrepencies between that approach and what they've actually done. Don't trust them at face value. Lean for yourself.
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  10. #230
    Shmunior Member Chewy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty View Post

    Believing that there would be an increased use if something is illegal is pathetic. Absolutely. There are people who wouldn't go near it sheerly because it's illegal. You're talking about alcohol being banned in like the 20's when the law actually couldn't handle that much. You don't think it has improved in a way at all?

    Abuse of any drug leads to problems, if you don't abuse it, there's pretty much no problems at all. You think that if we make every drug legal then people will only use an amount that wouldn't be considered abuse? No. People aren't like that.

    Oh, and, second hand smoking damages people too. Kthx.
    Second hand smoking is a pointless issue to bring up... illegal in public kthx.

    I'm talking about the obvious negative consequences of prohibition in the 1920's, it still applies today. You cannot ban a substance with an inflexible demand, prohibition is proof of that. It just starts organized crime. It has not improved all that much, there are still gangs selling drugs. I'd like to bankrupt them.

    There are soooo many drugs that are being abused, most of them legal. Why should this one be illegal when the negative consequences of abuse are far less then that of pretty much every other drug?

    What makes a stoner a criminal? Why should someone be thrown in jail for doing something that harms no one but themselves?

    Smoking weed is not a criminal problem. It is a personal problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty View Post
    Blindly following the government? I think that the government knows what it's doing.
    lol. All I gotta say to that.
    Last edited by Chewy; 02-28-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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