Mr Jimsmit

Well, I won't say anymore about it, it's a matter of opinion, the definition of the term has been fiddled with so much there's always going to be an argument over it.

imahawki

Agreed.

Kalimar

"Next Gen." seems to have different meanings.

To me, Wii is next generation because it introduces completely new gaming experiences for the console! I share Nintendo's view: Playstation and X Box will duke it out with the same old stuff (just tweaked in graphics) while Nintendo ventures off into a new frontier of gaming! And what a start! You have the Wiimote, the new games specifically designed for the Wiimote, and the Virtual Console! I'm very sure that this is just the tip of the iceberg with Wii. But these are reasons why I think Wii is next gen... because the gaming is next generation.

Darklord

The Wii in terms of hardware is as new as any of the platforms . they were all conceptualised in the same era, each incarnation of computing increases by a defined standard "Turin's Law" so all of the current hardware is a quite old in terms of engineering. The Xbox360 is Amd risc based and both the ps3 and the wii are powerpc based. So really it's about implementing the hardware available.

Mario Famous

Okay, My definition of next-gen or even "revolutionary". If the game brings something to the gaming world that is significantly different and if the game makes me view games in a new light. The Nintendo Wii has done both.

Kalimar

Agreed. But if there's so much arguing over Wii being next gen, we can always go with "new gen", which is what it is anyways. "Next gen" would refer to something being upgraded. "New gen" would refer to something completely new, which is what Wii is.

So new generation is better than next generation. And I think Satoru Iwata sees it through this viewpoint.

CadaveR (Ivo)

Well, one thing for me is for certain: innovative, pure fun/genius playability + greatly improved graphics = NEW generation. Not "next". And that's the path Nintendo should be going through (imo). Maybe I'm really wrong and the final product (the games) is really going to have some very good looking graphics to them... (even when compared to x360 or the Ps3. Maybe not equal, but VERY decent would be o.k for me).

Again and AGAIN: Nintendo, please pay some atention to the visuals, they're really worth the mention. They're really important too, not just innovative controls. Put these two great issues together and you'll, more than certainly, be a winner (and at the top, as you once were, again!).

A barely updated Xbox could never resist the technological evolution for the next 5 subsequent years. It would be a long and painfully outdated product to look at quite soon. Just my prediction anyway...

Just my two cents...

Squall7

I think this is a tactic. Nintendo don't want to be seen as being in competetion with Sony or Microsoft, because as soon as they do, they'll lose their non-gaming market. It's also part of the reason why the Wii is called what it is - not differentiating between the gaming market and the outside market (e.g. PlayStation or Gamecube). If they were to say "We are next gen", people outside of the Gaming demograph would consider it a "Gaming machine" and something that is going to be outdated almost as soon as you get it - Which is the way the computer and console market works.

It's all about association and market. Non-gamers don't want a "gaming machine". They want something that looks fun, involving and inviting. They don't want to be swept up in the latest thing - they simply want to play a bit. Do you get what I mean?

Arcadium

Nintendo knows what he is doing thats why they are creating an expectative

Kalimar

Amen to that. Many people seem to see things (especially PS and X-box fanboys) this way: if it has the best graphics, it is automatically superior! Screw the gameplay! I just want eye candy! Luuuurgh!

Trust me, I know about this way. I've had many conversations IRL about such things. Most people I've talked to (in my generation) view this. I also talked to an electronic technician about this. Did the gameplay matter to him? No. It was the graphics and DVD compatability. What happened to the magic of gaming? Does that not matter anymore? It has been this way since Playstation (originally a SNES add on) came into the play. The N64 was a pure gaming machine, but who cares when they could have Playstation? I'm sure people (consumers) turned to Playstation because they thought the discs were sexy and could support graphics superior to N64. Playstation did have great games though, so it wasn't untill the next console war that the magic of gaming really started to dwindle.

When Microsoft butts in with it's superior graphics and hardware campaign, people were swooning over it! To most people I talked to about it, they wanted X-box or PS2 (X-box mostly). The only real argument besides DVD and superior graphics (actually, I think GCN surpasses PS2 with graphics capability, but don't quote me on that) that I heard for a long time was "we got Halo!" or "we got Grand Theft Auto!" That's all. Well, what kind of argument is that? Sure, Halo was a great game, I admit. But Gamecube answered with Metroid Prime, which I enjoy more anyways. And shooting hookers and running over pedestrians is not my version of having a good time. All the while, Nintendo is still dishing out games that focus more on the gameplay: Mario Party, Super Smash Bros, Pikmin, etc. Now fast forward to the end of this console war. I start talking about it again with friends. Now they say: "Nintendo is so kiddy!" "The Gamecube has no mature games!" "Halo dominates all!" Now these people are probably casual gamers. What hurts me is the "kiddy" part. I never thought a Mario game to be "kiddy" and I'm sure no one else did. That all changed when more "mature" games came out to the market. So I'm automatically a loser just because I love Nintendo's pure gaming fun? I don't think so.

Wii is showing just that: pure gaming fun. Again. But this time, more innovations prove this to be a new generation of gaming. Sure Nintendo lost fans due to superior graphics and advanced hardware (if you look at things that way, you aren't a true gamer anyways), but I bet many will come back when they realize that Nintendo chose the right path while PS3 and X-Box 360 duke it out over the same dang thing. ..Again. So who's ready for a change? I sure am! New change = New generation, baby!

Sure, graphics are important, but only after gameplay. If you don't realize this, you aren't a true gamer. A game could have the best graphics in the world but really stink with gameplay at the same time! (please keep in mind that I'm not flamming anyone..I'm just saying it how it is). But of course games will have great graphics on Wii! It would be a true waste of money if Wii has advanced graphic capabilities for nothing, wouldn't you say? ATI (the makers of the graphics chips "Broadway" and "Hollywood") say that the graphics seen from Wii at E3 was just the tip of the iceberg. There's much, much more potential, so don't worry. I never worried about the graphics in the first place. Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, and Twilight Princess are enough eye candy for me! ^_^


Of course Nintendo can! And with a simple slogan: Playing is Believing Nintendo has stated time and time again that the days for superior graphics are at an end. We are now at a point where the graphics really don't matter anymore. They look good enough right now anyways. I'm still content with my Gamecube! Nintendo has finally regained a foothold after reopening the eyes of many to gameplay. Wii is a simple, family-friendly machine, whereas the 360 and PS3 have the potential to scare them away due to the complexities of their hardware.

I could go on and on about this, but I think that's enough for now. ^_^'

Ezekiel86

whoa Kalimar man thats one massive post!

one thing you said intrigued me. regarding "Mature" games for nintendo. I dont think it would hurt for nintendo to include more mature titles in their lineup. That may have been an underlying problem of the Gamecube too. An absense of mature titles leads people to think that this is something geared towards a younger demographic, thus making older users feel uncomfortable and out of place in owning one.

I can admit that the gamecube was far from without mature titles, with the Resident Evil series re-released, the new Prince of Persia trilogy and several Tom Clancey games. I am aware I have not listed all of them but including more mature titles is a must, as in comparison to its competitors, the gamecube had far fewer mature titles available, which could be a contributing factor to its dimished popularity. I am aware that games dont have to be drenched in blood for them to have a good quality of gameplay, but it does give the older audience something that appeals specifically to them.

In all honesty, how many of us have come home after a hard day at school/work and wanted nothing more than to hack up/blow away a few suckers (ie: god of war, soldier of fortune II)? I am also aware that nintendo is downplaying the 'competition' aspect of the Wii, but more mature titles would certainly be more inviting of a larger demographic, and this in itself isn't nessacerrily (however thats spelt) competing, its simply something that adds that extra bit of flavour to the games, something for the older audience, which could be locked out for a younger audience (i do believe i did read somewhere that a parental lock feature will be built into the Wii's Interface/OS, meaning under-age gamers will not be exposed to inappropriate content, whether it is too graphic or explicit in nature)

linkzeldagame

Yeah Kalimar very long and informative post. In response to this quote:
I agree with you. For example I have lately been playing N64 on my computer at home since I gave away the controllers to various ppl in the neighbourhood so they can play N64 games after youth group events etc... and I was playing Banjo Tooie on the N64 emulator. I have a GC and I really liked MP series and SSBM. As I was playing an outdated game that was made 4 - 5 yrs ago the graphics took a while to adjust to but once I got used to it, I cannot stop playing it as it's such a great game! It's very well targeted towards kids but the game is so immense its challenging and immerses me into the game after 5 mins of playing it.

And here I am talking about a dreadful graphics based game in comparisions to todays games that come out for ps2 and xbox and GC. And the other funny thing is that I'm 19 and I don't give a s**t about what everyone thinks about whether I'm playing a kid game or (shock and horror) a nes based arcade game like Donkey Kong or The Legend of Zelda.

Hear hear! I was at a XBOX gaming centre last friday and I finally had a first try with halo and time splitters (said to be great games) - I was somewhat disgusted with the differences between the two games. How can they be great games when they have exact controller configurations, almost exact same storyline, and neither of them even have a 'pause' button. Maybe its because I don't have an XBOX and I don't fully know how to use double joystick configuration or even find the start button on the controller because it blends well with the controller making it almost impossible to find it easily.

I can imagine maybe even a RPG game coming out for XBOX 360 that will rival final fantasy RPG that will come out for PS3.

Ezekiel86:
I noted that happening with the GC as im demographically in the mature age range and there aren't many games on the GC for older people. I have certain mature games such as Metroid Prime series and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. The interesting thing is that I've always played Metroid Prime over Splinter Cell as I prefer those types of games. As a result I hardly play Splinter Cell.

By the way,
is spelt 'necessarily', I think. My memory's not perfect with these kinds of words as I dont use them often except in essays lol...

The uni I go to has a gaming club and the most popular game everyone likes to play is SSBM over Soul Calibur for PS2. There's alway's someone better at SSBM lol! Goes to show how much fun some 'kiddy' nintendo games are even though the people playing them are in the mature age range!

Cheers Stuart

Ezekiel86

Even though Super Smash Bros. Melee adheres to "kiddie" aesthetics, its appeal stretches far beyond that sub-group of the gaming community. Having said that, it's hard to believe it can even be a game aimed towards a "kiddie" audience when one sees how elite some players actually are... but I suppose thats for those who can actually appreciate a good depth and quality of gameplay that alot of newer games tend to lack.

Having more "grown up" titles on a platform doesn't necessarily (thanks stuart) guarentee a better quality of gameplay (i've played some "grown up" titles that have been downright awful in gameplay) but the sheer spooky, uneasy feeling set by games aimed at an older demographic (i'm not generalising saying all "grown up" games do this, but the ones that do, do it well) make them worthy titles to play. Don't forget they have that rating for a reason. That kind of emotional involvement in games seems nearly absent from alot of the "kiddie" games, which is problematic. While the "kiddie" games might be alot of fun to play, without feeling and emotion, the games become lifeless very quickly.

saturnine

I absolutely agree w/you kalimar. gameplay has taken a bit of a backseat to graphics since MS joined the fray. Splinter Cell used to be one of my favorite games, but as I was playing through Chaos Theory, I began to get bored w/it b/c it was the same thing every level. sneak up behind everyone & kill them or knock em out. repeat ad nauseum. you always knew what you had to do, even before you knew what the mission was. you always had the same set of tools & abilities from mission 1 to the end. sure, there are diff. things to sneak around & diff. ways to do this, but the gameplay itself never changes throughout the entire game & it didn't really change at all from the previous 2 games in the series.

I began to realize that the majority of xbox games are like this & missed the fun of Nintendo games. So I got a copy of Ocarina of Time b/c this was a game I missed since I never owned the N64. It's amazing how a game that is 2 generations old can still captivate & immerse you in it's world. There's constantly a feeling of discovery & you know there is more to do in a particular area, you just don't yet have the tools to do it.

Nintendo has the most creative game designers on the planet & I cannot say enough good things about the direction they are going to take the gaming indsustry in. The Wii is the machine for me & I cannot wait to support Nintendo by purchasing it.

ssbb_lover

Very long posts

ssbb_lover

But very good content

ssbb_lover

Keep it up

CadaveR (Ivo)