Squall7

What you're talking about is not innovation though. Dictionary.com describes innovation as:
The fact of the matter, is that Halo wasn't particularly innovative. Sure, the graphics were good, but if improved graphics were innovation, then the PS3 will be boasting more innovation. It isn't. Perfect Dark introduced a number of new types of weapons, bots (with personality) and new play modes (counter-op?). Sure, the game didn't have that good graphics by today's standard, but you can't compare a game of two generations of consoles ago with the kind of graphics we have today (or even last generation).

Better graphics, clearer sounds and bigger games do not constitute as innovation. It's merely improvement. And lets no forget that Halo graphics will seem absolutely horrible when compare to next gen and the gen after that.

__________________

sasuke747

Have you even played Counter Strike?

__________________
(= Back =)

Lord Haku

What is conter stirke have not heard of it

__________________
-No Videos in SigAs it now we will know each other till nothing remains

Napalmbrain

You're kidding, right?
It's an online FPS (probably the most popular one in the world) where 2 teams (terrorists and anti-terrorists) battle each other. One team tries to complete a task (usually rescue hostages or detonate a bomb) and the opposing side tries to stop them. It's very fun, you should try it sometime.

Lord Haku

Hey thanks I will try it

__________________
-No Videos in SigAs it now we will know each other till nothing remains

sKin

Yes, I played 2 years in CAL actually. I was quite good at that game. And I fail to see what Counters-Strike had to do with my quote...

Eh. You're not reading what i'm posting. I didn't say Halo was only innovative for one reason, but for mulitiple reasons:

Perfect Dark didn't have any of that. The graphics were on a goldeneye level which everybody had already seen before, the music was blah, the storyline was confusing, the controls were crap (man did I hate the n64 controller...), but I do have to admit the multi-player was pretty fun. I just don't see anything innovative about it im afraid now, and when it came out.

__________________

Squall7

I did read it. You picked out the wrong part:
Which are some of the reasons why you thought Halo was innovative.

Well that's all opinion really. But fact still remains, Halo is not as innovative as Perfect Dark. Perfect Dark put more into things than previous FPS than Halo did. I'm not saying Halo is a bad game (although I personally think it's over-hyped), all I'm saying is that I would have more fun with Perfect Dark.

P.S. You can't stand a N64 controller but you're fine with an Xbox one? What kind of Bizzaro-world have I slipped into?

__________________

sKin

I could simply say that all Perfect Dark was was just an improvement over Goldeneye. Does that make it right?

No no no, that is where you are wrong. That is just your opinoin, not fact, and thus you shouldn't pass it off as fact. If I were to say its a fact that Halo is much more innovative than Perfect Dark, does that make it? There are three types of people who call Halo over-hyped: Nintendo/Sony fans, RPG lovers, and people who have never played Halo. I'm pretty sure you fall into one of those categories.

Well back in the day it wasn't so bad, but eh, I just hated how uncomfortable that one analog stick was. Sue me.

__________________

Squall7

JUST an improvement? No, you're wrong for the simple fact that it introduced certain things, rather than expanded on them. For example, the different personality types for the simulants, the "counter-operative mode" and the dizzying effect when you get hit by certain weapons/punched. Those were completely new, rather than simply improved upon.

My opinions are based on facts. I have played both extensively, and have come to this conclusion based on evidence and a clear understanding and definition of "innovative". I'm not saying it's "better", what I am refuting is that Halo is as innovative as you say it is. There are loads of different types of people that refer to Halo as over-hyped. For example, the non-gamer. How about the anti-microsoft people? If I wasn't a Nintendo fan, I wouldn't be here on this forum. I'm not particularly a fan of RPG (mainly the Final Fantasy series), and I have played the game extensively. Your specific use of words are trying to make out that it's "not normal" for someone to dislike Halo (or think it's over-hyped), and that they must belong to certain catagories, whereas people who don't fit into those catagories automatically think that Halo's reputation is deserved, and not in the least hyped up.

Wasn't trying to miff anyone off. To me, the shape and size of the Xbox controller are awkward. I could very easily get on with the N64 controller.

P.S. I think this debate has gone on long enough. If you have more to back up your ideas that Halo is innovative, then please feel free to post them. If it's just gonna be a "I'm right, you're wrong" kind of rant/post, please research before hand and back up your ideas.

__________________

Lord Haku

Thank you squall this guy obviulasy will not shut up about Halo even though you can telling him what innovative is alright skin change the topic man your getting old fast

__________________
-No Videos in SigAs it now we will know each other till nothing remains

sKin

Eh eh and another eh. I don't consider a new mode and some dizzying effect to be "innovative", no matter how cool they are. And the counter-operative mode was just a variant of other modes from other previous shooters on the N64, so it wasn't totally fresh.

I've played both extensively as well, and that still doesn't make my opinoins facts. I understand innovative moreso then you believe (i've argued in Halo's favor MANY many times before this), and I know why it is innovative. I never said Halo was better than Perfect Dark, I was just arguing on the basis of innovativity (word?), which Halo definately has more of. Many people hate Halo. I know this. But it just makes me mad when they have no reason to say it's over-hyped because they usually don't know what they are talking about it.

The original Xbox controller was terrible, yes, but the Controller S when it first released blew the N64 out of the water.

I never said I was right, and I never said you were wrong. I was just trying to emphasize that your opinoin, no matter how vaild it maybe, can not be played off as fact in an argument. Halo was just such an amazing game to me... it sucked me in, absorbed me for hours and hours, and to be honest it has never let go of me. I love that game to death and i'm willing to argue with anybody who says otherwise about it.

Because you guys won't shut up about Halo

__________________

ssbb_lover

I say u'r both making very good points...but i'm going to have to go w/ sKin because he made the last point and it sounded good

THE RANKING:
1.Counter Strike
2.Halo
3.Perfect Dark

Remeber this is just my opinion...not fact...don't u guys flame me...

P.S. I have played all of them so that's not just a n00b's ranking

__________________

Squall7

So you accept that it is new and original (even if you don't like it)? What do you define as "innovative" (please don't use examples, use definitions).

I have just as much reason to say that Halo is overhyped as much as you have the right to say Perfect Dark is. What I was picking out were features - actual things that backup up my opinions. What you were doing was describing why Halo was "better" (graphics, sound and non-linear gameplay), not innovation. And the reason I think Halo is overrated - is because it does exactly what Quake did, exactly what Doom did, exactly what Perfect Dark did, exactly what Duke Nukem did and exactly what Half-life did. If you were to explain to me in the different methods of rendering screens/new methods of throwing more polygons on the screen, I will gladly accept your explanation, and agree with you. You're just not giving me something "innovative".

Looks like a chunky Gamecube controller. It also looks (button positions and such) as the PlayStation controller. I see nothing special about it.

A friend of mine say "You cannot get past the orgasmic experience of the Dreamcast Controller. It pwns all others."


I already got that you were hot for Halo. I presented my opinions with backup from facts - innovative game features which weren't implemented before (or even thought of). What you were doing was saying "Halo is innovative because of great visuals, amazing music and non-linear gameplay".
I'll say "it's my opinion", if you do the same:
- You never indicated that this was "just" your opinion there. A little bit of double standards there methinks...

I'm just pointing out that "innovative" is not the right word for Halo. Saying it's good, exciting, it gets you hot, I don't care - it's just not innovative though.

You went with Skin because he made the last point? Meh, I've heard of worse ways of deciding stuff...

__________________

Lord Haku

Alright enough of this argument lets just say they were good game they did somethig brand newe and whatever stop ranking games Halo is just a game a common FPS but a good one at that so is Perfact Dark and Counter Strike we all know that Doom is the best becuase it introduced to that genre that is a fact so lets us praise the fact the doom was the first FPS that spawned them all. Plus what funnier than shooting a pixalted German sherpard?

__________________
-No Videos in SigAs it now we will know each other till nothing remains

sKin

You're over-exaggerating the defination of innovative to adapt it to your needs. I saw nothing new with Perfect Dark, just an improvement over Goldeneye, and once again I still don't understand why your saying it's a fact that Perfect Dark was much more innovative than Halo. Because it's not.

I never said Perfect Dark was over-hyped, just that it wasn't as innovative as you claim it to be. And the sad thing is you're missing out on what made Halo so awesome and new, and no matter how much I argue you still won't understand. Halo defined FPS's for me in a sense. It took a lone hero, stranded him on a Ring, and set him off on a mission to survive. It was MASSIVE, it was REAL, and most importantly it was FUN. Everything Halo did was perfect, which in itself is amazing and innovative because while most FPS's did somethings right, 99.9% of the time they did something wrong (i.e. Perfect Dark's case). But Halo was a rare exception, which in itself was a pure joy to watch. I still stand by its side: Halo's innovation > Perfect Dark's innovation.

Eh. It's all a matter of opinoin. The first Controller S felt amazing in my hands and it's still one of my favorite controllers. ARG, I hated the dreamcast controller! It felt plasticy, cheap, and extremely easy to break. It was bulky, ugly to look at, and it just hurt to hold it for a hours at a time. No way Jose.