Any Muslims in the Place?

BrandonMcAuslan

Oooh controversial title?!

What do non-christians think about christmas?
I remember the place I used to work there was a ban on Christmas trees etc as it could offend ethnic/religious minorities?! WTF!
I still put up a small "festive" tree - due to the fact that my bad-ass Star Wars tree decorations "HAD" to go up. There's one of the millenium Falcon flying over bespin - it plays the Star Wars theme tune and lights up when you press a button! What's more Christmas-y than that!!!

Anyway He-zeus wasn't born on 25th dec anwyay - My Christian Ancestors decided to hijack the festival of the winters salstice (spelling - who cares?) in order to ram some good old fashioned Christian ethics down the throats of the pagan non-believing heathens! They prob tortured and burned them at the stake too (right-on!)- but I can't find a credible source for any of that... Its pretty much speculation on my part actually...

Anyhow back on topic...
Non-Christians - Christmass - Discuss...

yungblood6

lol you have truth to your words but thats a topic most christians won't admit too. I being a christian don't realy celibrate christmas, there are many reasons for this some worldly others in the bible, but that would start a whole mess of things if i was to get into that. It is true christmass was made long after christ was born and died it had something to do with one of the roman ceasars i think it was agustus i may be wrong, but whom ever converted to christianity because it was the rising religion of the region he was ruling, thus also not to affend the pagens too much he merged the two together, and you have christmass. its more complex than that but thats basicly it in a nutshell

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mushroomedmario

I believe in a religion i made up (although i don't know if it's been done before) called christlam, as i believe jesus was the son of god, but also believe muhammad was a prophet. My family is christian and they celebrate christmas like any other family, i couldn't care less about it....the main thing i look forward to is two weeks out of school

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yungblood6

Well whats funny is most of the religions that are based on the One God are verry similar with the same people in its books. The main differnces are the views of Jesus. Christians view him as God made man, and the son of god( still trying to figure that one out) Muslims view him just as a prophet but not greater than Muhamaad. Jews think he was just a great teacher.

Whats also interesting is the fact that all three believe in abraham, moses and other old testament figures. Each religion (imo) has its truths and its lies and no one can determain which is right. we won't know that till its all over. Thats what Faith is for.

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Squall7

A lot of places replaced "Christmas" with "Winter Festival" for supposedly other religions. People do get up in arms about it. The only responses I've heard from Non-Christian religious people is that they think it's stupid (the renaming). Basically it's down to people who think they can speak on behalf of others without knowing what the others want.

I don't think I've ever seen Christmas as anything beyond "A time of year that people are nice to each other and give everyone else presents". Of course, being slightly Marxist, I woul have to argue that commerciality hijacks Christmas every year in order to make money specifically for the upper classes.

Back on topic though: I think the question of "are you Muslim" has been asked before, just not in the context of Xmas. I know some Muslims have left the community because they felt isolated or persecuted against. Others religious beliefs don't really enter in to all that many discussions. I consider myself Aethiest, and to be honest, I'm fine with that. I know that when I die, I'll decay in the ground, I won't feel a thing, and that I'm fine with that too. Although that doesn't mean I don't believe that my molecules won't form another (or several) lifeforms after many years... So kinda reincarnation, only without the cycle of "dropping down a level if you're bad and going to Nirvana if you're good".

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BrandonMcAuslan

Sweet Zombie Jesus! (I only got that recently - he did return from the dead = therefore zombie..!?)

I believe Augustus decreed that the Roman motto of "One Empire - One Emperor" should also be reflected in the religion of the Roman empire, in the sense that there is "One Religion - One God". It was both a means of expressing his faith and solidifying the Caesar's authority over the empire (clever dude)... The Idea of Jezuz being born on the 25th of Dec dates back to around 200-300 AD I believe. I have books - could look it up - but I prob won't...

Father Christmas hi-jacked Christmas back in the 20s-30s... He and his elves led an unsanctioned unprovoked military action into the very heart of Christmas, in order to gain control over the lucrative oil fields of the festive season. The result is that Christmas has d*ck all to do with any sort of religious festival - and everything to do with big-business, spending lots of money - and self gratification... Just the way I like it!

surfinrach90

IMO Religion = war. Flame me all you want, it's my oppinion.

The whole thing about changing the name of 'Christmas Lights' to 'Winter Lights' really 'grinds my gears'. It shouldn't offend other religions. Jewish people are allowed to celebrate their holidays such as Rosh Ha-Shanah and Pesach and that's fine. The Muslims get their Ramadan and Eid ul-Fitr. Now no matter how it started or where it came from, the Christians celebrate Christmas. With Christianity being the main religion in the UK the holidays get made a bigger fuss of so yeah, they get Christmas lights. Why not? It's their religion and their holiday, why should they have to change the name of their celebrations to please other religions?

[/rant]

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Squall7

Err, stop me if I'm wrong, but "back in the day", Rome was a polythesic religion, at least until Christianity came along...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_gods...

Err, isn't it the followers of the religion, and not the religion itself that is at fault? Abstract concepts cannot wage war (no matter what South Park tells you), which includes religions, countries (aren't they just masses of land anyway?), ficticious peoples', etc...

Also, as far as I can see, Christmas DOESN'T offend other religions. It's just somebody in power trying to spread distrust in the (multicultural) community (well, that's how I see it).

It's also ironic really. Christmas, the supposed birth of Christ, a tradition that was stolen from the Pagans, is seen as being a threat for Christians, from other religions. It wasn't even their's in the first place. Gotta laugh, if only for the irony...

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BrandonMcAuslan

?
Yeah - whats your point?
By Augustus I of course meant Thedosius..!? Think thats his name? Anyway. Again it's one of these nuggets of knowledge that once were important (for college/school) - but now escape me due to the fact that I've very little use for such knowledge in my everyday life...
(It may have actually been Constantine who made the decree about one god religion blah blah - but it certainly didn't come into effect until Thedosius.
Who the f*ck is able to remember all this stuff?! (apart from history teachers and archeologists etc)

Squall7

More to the point: Who the f*ck cares?

Never cared for history. It always felt a little, inconsequential (ironically).

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BrandonMcAuslan

Any other non-Christians have any strong feelings about christmas?
Or even Christians?
Or ChristLams?

I'm all about the presents me... Recieving that is - not giving...
Saying that I do give some damn good presents..!

surfinrach90

Yes, but I never said it was the religion itself that causes war, just religion in general, and I don't watch South Park

The people who are changing the names of Christmas Lights are changing it because of other religions and not to offend them, that's what I was getting at. =]

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Squall7

Fair enough. Although I think we'd still be at each others' throats, even if there was no religion. I think it's more of a lack of tolerance, rather than because something is messing up the gears (if you know what I mean). Not that I'm religious...

Yes, but who said they wanted it changed? As far as I've heard, other religions have been just as much up in arms because of the name change, possibly more so, as it would create distrust between them and the Christians (and Aetheists it seems). Hence, it could be seen that the changing of "christmas" was a farse to create said distrust.

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BrandonMcAuslan

SurfinRach I find your views extremly unsettling..!

"Southpark" is a tremendous show! why not watch it? I insist you should watch some southpark!? (The later series are a lot funnier than the original one's) - (Especially the episode where Cartman forms a Christian Rock group)!

Celeste

I grew up in a half Christian (Russian Orthadox), half Muslim family.
...Kinda random, amirite?
I'm an athiest...we still celebrate Eid and Christmas though. I love giving/receiving presents. Presents FTMFW =]
I agree with Rach. Religion = war.

[DT]

It's one catalyst.

However:

Politics = War
Race = War
Geography = War
Bugs Bunny vs. Daffy = War
Me vs. Red Envelope = War

Weren't a significant number of our major modern conflicts a result of the first 3?


Not specifically towards you Celeste:

I think it's become chic to denounce organized religion. Among the net-fabulous Y and Z gen-ers, it's cool to be an athiest because in so many minds that means anti-conservative, anti-Republican.

[yikes, edit for horrific spelling]

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Celeste

It's insulting that you attribute athiesm in young people to being "trendy" and/or liberal.
I've been an athiest since age 13. It isn't exactly a decision supported by the majority of my family. It wasn't influenced by anything other than personal events, then subsequent questioning and analysis of the fables and propaganda that had been fed to me at church.

I know you weren't specifically talking about me, but...yeah. Some of us actually think for ourselves.

FRuMMaGe

I used to be a Muslim. Not for years though

I am still friends with lots of Muslims

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[DT]

Relax

This part was really well executed - you established your postion, supported it with facts, some peripheral anecdotal bits, and were only mildly sarcastic, through the use of inflective italics.

I thought it was well delivered!

You shouldn't be insulted by what I stand by as an accurate assessment of some athiests. Are you suggesting that people (in particular the younger demographic) aren't driven to certain social, political and religious tendacies by their perception of current trends? Really, from your posts I know you are much smarter than that.

I stand by what I said *because* I see many younger folks toss down that label in conjuction with political and social dispositions that plug into a characticture. They're not as thoughtful as you, they're assuming a contrived position. I did it too when I was young. In fact, I haven't really even indicated in any of these religious topics my position (which might surprise you given this thread).

Merry Xmas

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"I want to be more like the ocean, no talking, all action"
- Jane's Addiction

"Ga-blaaaaagh!!"
- Liliane Eva

"The grammar corrections around here are officially old and tired."
- Celeste

yungblood6

In all out reality christmas isnt even about christ! I when i find it will post but it even says in one of the scriptures that he(Christ) didn't want us to celebrate his birth, he said it was unimportant, but celebrate his death, and his sacrafice.

Then if you ask the majority of americans what they think christmas is about and you will get the awnser gift giving and santa clause, and missletoe, all of which has nothing to do with christianity. As a matter of fact december wasent even a month till i think it was augustus that made that month and august after himself. If i am correct i think i read that christ was born in the summer season.

Like i said all religions play into each other, and in each is a little truth that holds the awnser to the real true religion, but is misinterpeted, misunderstood, missled by political, racial, financial, and power hungry people.(the devils playground).

Thats why i don't down anothers religion but learn from it, and use what i learn to stregnthen my own faith. But what i don't understand is how people can believe that there is nothing after this and nothing created you, and that we just evolved to thinking creatures, from some big blast in the sky. Just think where do we get the knowledge to build wii's and 360's and hd tvs and computers all from rocks,dirt, metal, water and air? I believe that if it was just that simple dogs, cats, and other animals would be making tvs' and other forms of tech.(not downing any one that doesnt believe just don't understand)

I know one of the big arguments is that if it was a god how can all these bad things happen, well my awnser to that and belief to that is how do you know something is good if you havent experienced bad. How can you appreciate the things you made it through, if you never went through it? Its just like the phrase what doesnt kill you can only make you stronger. How can i appreciate life if it wasnt for me knowing i will die?

Just something to think about.

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