Nuke RedL

I say that we push the bounds of depravity to such a point in all aspects of society , that it provides a soapbox for some fundamental religious group to attack our immoral behavior . Then society , already disillusioned with what we've become , and hearing the words of the fundamentalists , bring these religious extremists to power .
Then before you know it , games not suitable for people under 13 will be banned .
This is my vision for the future .
Well not really, but I do think that games like Manhunt 2 take us down a path where the eventual consequences may not bear thinking about .

Almo

heh heh hasnt been Banned in New Zealand and auzzie so i guess ill be playing it happily, if anyone wants a copy in the UK when i comes out ill ship em over from NZ

Adamquest64

Game companies should allow those AO games. Maybe Sony and Microsoft will allow it eventually but sadly to us, Nintendo probably never will.

EKAY123

you're all moaning about a stupid GAME not being released, a mother lost her son because some nutter could not tell the difference between a game and real life.

cbrotherson

Are you referring to the murder that the first Manhunt was associated with? Because that one is painfully inaccurate - a tragedy, yes, but nothing to do with 'videogame related violence' (seeing as it was the victim who owned the game, not the killer).

EDIT: The facts that were ignored in the pursuit of headlines and political agenda: http://www.beemoh.co.uk/article.php?31

As I said before – the murder was a tragedy and a horrible thing. But to blame Rockstar or videogames is pretty specious to say the least.

Of course, if you're talking about another specific case, then it's a fine and valid point; although I'm unaware of any other related incidents regarding Manhunt.

Smegma

I'm not really upset about the banning, purely because I don't care for the game. Here is my perspective:

Rockstar:
They got and make a game that rides on the gimmick of being gory and disturbing and completely overlook gameplay. The gameplay, after the first few levels of the Manhunt, got so repetitive I just stopped playing. It wasn't worth seeing the story, because it was pretty boring too. Personally, I never play games purely for the story because the gameplay in between makes up a huge part of the pacing and well, it was just too boring. The plot transported into a movie might have kept me mildly interested (depending on how well it was made).
So Rockstar makes a system that gets incredibly boring, but its cool cause "its very gory!". What's so gory about constant camera switching which blocks out much of what's going on, grainy "film", VERY little detailed, and most of the gore is "implied". Wow, that guy just got a scythe shoved up his ass and ripped out. Yea, that sounds gory, but the game basically just says what's happening instead of showing you any real detail or style. Gore? No. Boredom? Hell yes. I've seen more if not equally graphic images in PG-13 films.
Rockstar took a decent idea, and went lazy. The gameplay failed, and while they could have spent the rest of their time making a gory game, they just made some animations with little to no gore. How it ever got a sequel or high ratings, I don't know. I know manhunt 2 will be the same style, which disappoints me.

Media:
They hyped MH2 to be the goriest game of all time. While it may be that, as games aren't too gory to start with (though I doubt this MH2 fits this claim), they make it seem like it is to be ultra violent. Apparently they confuse gore with implied acts, because seeing a hammer crudely collide with the base of the neck, and then simply be pulled out (all the while the angle changes, blocking most of what is going on and when you do see something, its horribly done) is not gore.


See, while these could exist in the game, I have no doubt that they would imply it and not show the act and if they did, I am almost certain it would not be "gory". Likewise with the genital mutilations. It will probably just show the weapon grab the crotch of the pants and pull. Oh, real gory. I think I'll have to CLOSE my eyes because the collision of the two look so horrible. The media shouldn't have hyped it up, it doesn't deserve it.

The Ratings:
Games are much more harsher than movies. There is no debate on this, I can show you movies that top gore in Manhunt that are only R.

The People:
They vary, so some people might be "shocked" by this, but they really shouldn't. If they aren't they just shouldn't buy it.

Conclusion:
I don't want this to be banned, but I wouldn't really care. I wouldn't buy it or even play it because the last one failed so hard. The principals on why it is banned offends me as a fan of gore, more so than a fan of the first amendment.

Oh, and MH2 will probably follow suit of its predecessor. Boring, lazy, and bad.

Oh, and Hostel II wasn't too gory either but it is clearly gory than MH.

ImBilly

Manhunt is a wonderful game who cares that a kid killed 3 people using methods from the game why do we have to suffer for what some kid did

EKAY123

this mother lost her son two weeks ago, smashed his head with a hammer, then stabbed him gosh knows how many times. the killer loved the game and lured this young boy to his death.

EKAY123

this case happened only two weeks ago, the killer loved his game and killed the young boy the same way as in the game, it was horrific.

Joe

OH MAN! What a mess.... no problem for me, because I wasnt even going to buy it! Mindless killing isnt my sort of thing. But I still hope RockStar can fix things up for the fans of ManHunt and theirselves.

Brady280

I wanted it but I don't really care if I don't get it. I'll forget about it in the next few days anyway.

cbrotherson

That's terrible - do you have a link? I'll go looking around for one, but if you have one to hand I'll take a look...

EDIT: Okay, I've had a look around - there's no other murder than the one I mentioned. It's become revamped news in the last few weeks, because of Manhunt 2, but what you described was in fact the exact same case that happened years ago which was disproved in court to be nothing to do with videogames (the Pakeerah/Leblanc murder case - is that the one?) as said many times but ignored by the mainstream media.

If this isnt the case, you really have to point me in the right direction, because nothing has been noted in the mainstream press that I read, nor the gaming press, which for something of that size would be fairly noticeable on my radar (being an ex full time journo). Seeing as there's still no direct link to games violence and real life violence -a constant issue that I feel will never be resolved, as people are still trying to link every other entertainment to violence- I honestly do believe you've got mixed up here with a very old and false story, because if it was as clear cut as you describe then it would be an open and shut case, which it clearly isnt (a first page Google search would offer that and Rockstar wouldnt have a leg to stand on for the sequel's release otherwise - NONE of this has been mentioned in the Manhunt 2 banning in ANY reports, which is strange to say the least).

Please fire over the links to what you're referring to, and I'll take a look.

supanova

I had very little interest in Manhunt 2. But now I want it.

SensesFail

lol, exactly what they wanted.


that whole murder, however horrific it was, had nothing to do with video games. its stupid and ignorant to suggest that playing a single video game can cause someone to become homocidal. if that were the case, im sure id be in jail by now from all the shooters ive played. its rediculous..

the_flood502

Lol... i was sure some angry parent would complain about this =/

...Parents are way too eager to complain...

I remember when that game 'bully' (or something) was complained about for having the ability to kiss and give suggestions (for sex (soliciting)) to other males =? wtf... if they want to do that that's fine... stupid Christians... who the hell do they think they are?

Oh, and for the people saying that video games do corrupt your children:

Psychological studies suggest that that's a load of BS... a child will not start robbing, killing, raping/sexually molesting people, just because they play a video game which features it. - Why not just blame the whole collapse of society on games, while you're at it? Games have ratings for a reason... if a game is marked '18' then don't buy your 12 year-old it for Xmas, and then complain about it being too violent or rude, retard!

supanova

You sir, are an idiot.

ImBilly

Thats why its such a good game!

David328ci

Finally a game that I will actually want to play. My Wii has been gathering dust.

Rolex

Corey,

Great article, worms in a can ring any bells?

I wasn't really looking to proffering any views on your original article per se as we have discussed the stifled, generally uninformed and over hyped decisions surrounding the entire censorship domain currently bringing fear to a console near you, in previous threads....

I have just been reading Gamespot's hands on (pardon the pun) impressions of Manhunt II - Wii version and it shone another light on the argument for me.

If, what they say, is correct then Rockstar seem to have taken the experience to a new and, some may say, influential level...

Gesture controls add immersion to the experience; we have glimpsed this with Godfather - quick strangle anyone?; and hence make the Wii version something entirely different from the other versions. To emulate beating, stabbing, sawing and strangulation with your hands and to see it actually take place in front of you could possibly have some effects on certain unhinged gamers. Give a child a toy gun to play wit.....errmmmm I won't use that analogy.

I am NOT attempting to fuel the fires with this: as I certainly don't believe it: but I am highlighting an aspect of reasoning towards the ban itself. As Wii controls are taken to a more gesticulated level then the experience grows and it would be interesting to see just how far Rockstar have taken it with this game. [I do know that the ban is NOT Wii specific]

Nintendo always aimed for true motion control and MHII may have delivered on this promise - Nintendo should be looking and thinking about this if it ever comes to deciding to ban games which adapt to use their systems [Corey did mention that they do ban on content rating]. Sure you can say that MHII's concept is unnecessarily gory or violent but if they didn't do it someone else would and to ban them won't stop games like this regarding future production. As time progresses censorship dilutes - we have already had Back to the Future mentioned for goddam and literature being banned for being evocative of it's time i.e. Leaves of Grass, Walt Whitman's famous collection of poetry, was withdrawn in Boston in 1881, after the District Attorney threatened criminal prosecution for the use of explicit language in some poems. The work was later published in Philadelphia. Poetry - hah! Pam Ayres eat you heart out.

To censor is for the good of the body censoring it - censorship is the opinion of an elected body [per se] and not the consumer - consumers vote with their money - after all if you think you may be offended - don't dig any deeper. Games are a sought after / purchsed product which doesn't appear in the stream of every day consciousness of many peoples lives.
Something that is apparent in this is that, when you watch the news on tv or read the newspaper - we have "sanctioned" coverage of murder, rape, pedophilia, lying, cheating, corruption, theft - in general, crimes against humanity. The story which highlights the trauma with the most realistic coverage generally gets praised the most. I couldn't ever work this out. Games which do not portray "real" life get censored but news people sniffing out the highest ratings or copies sold describe REAL life harrowing experiences by shoving a mic/camera into the faces of traumatised victims of crime or disaster etc... get awards?!?!?!?!? A culture which encourages mobile phone (grainy) images of real life traumas which are displayed in your living room without any labels or warnings.... See this is why I didn't originally post - I get carried away with the hypocrisy of it all.

If you are concerned that, as a parent, your child is playing inappropriate games, "for god's sake get off your ass and do some parenting!!" Thank you to Stewie Gilligan Griffin (Aged 1) for that last quote

cbrotherson

Hey Rolex,

Sorry about the long delay, busy few weeks, topped off with a mild bout of food poisoning, just to make things interesting.

I agree that someone somewhere should/would have realised this is merely something that would have occurred at one point or another. Each medium experiences something like this at some point and it's merely the stemming of an inevitable tide. In several years time I imagine we'll be wondering what the fuss was all about. But currently, our classification system for games is so deeply flawed it shows a) an inherent disrespect for the medium, and b) the medium's lack of self confidence.

As you say, there's a strong desire to mask fictional accounts of depravity that 'real world' accounts are often praised for. Yet the Media is very selective in what it shows from such accounts, sometimes making it a cynical form of expression in itself. During my Journalism degree we were taught numerous ethics (some of which get beaten out of you once you step into the 'real world') and how one type of story is valid while another isn’t, even if they're effectively the same thing – it's all about creating an angle to gather audience. There's a very fine line between that and what entertainment forms often do. Not to beat a dead horse, but the whole "my son was killed by Manhunt's influence" story proves that in more ways than one, given the press practically ignored the facts of the case from not only the police, but prosecutors AND defence solicitors to push their own agenda on the story ("games are evil!") and the parents' desire to try and disregard the fact their son was involved with drugs which got him killed in the first place. Then when Manhunt 2 was revealed to be coming out, the same story was dragged out yet again, with the same misinformation leading people to believe something which boiled down to a WWE wrestling promo. "Drugs? Well, we cant get rid of that, it's been part of society since the dawn of time... and hell, it's passe anyway, the kids and drugs story has been done".

It's not to say there's no smoke without fire (so to speak), but gaming is a modern day witch hunt. And humanity sure does love to blame things which takes our own evils out of our hands and makes us seem like pure, untainted souls where the slightest 'bad' influence can send us into a murderous rage – not that any one of us is capable of such a thing on our own, of course...