Why Nintendo’s online gaming paranoia could kill the Wii

jl559 · 03-29-2008, 04:42 AM

^i agree with T3kNi9e

I don't understand why people are trying to defend the wii's bad online service. It's a clear fault with the wii but some fanboys can't seem to accept it. Especially when they use such arguments like wii being not about online but controls, or gamers alike don't care about it. IMO, the PS3 & 360 set a new standard with online and nintendo is being stubborn in not changing.

Subarnu · 03-29-2008, 04:48 AM

We have accepted it, we are pointing out the reasons why Nintendo is ignoring online.

linuxghost · 03-29-2008, 08:55 AM

What we have to remember, first and foremost, is that the Wii is still in its infancy.

XBox Live on the 360 didn't start getting flooded with a lot of downloadable content (XBox Live Arcade) until roughly its 2-year anniversary, last fall and winter.

The Wii is only about a year and a half old, and even less if you consider that the vast majority of "casual" consumers have just been able to buy one within the past 6 months or so.

With the advent of Wiiware in May, I think we'll see downloadable games and content skyrocket in popularity, as they have on the 360 and PS3.

And soon after that happens, I'd bet anything we'll see more and more commercial games making online play available.

As much as people say, "WII ISN'T ABOUT ONLINE GAMING!!!" I'm sorry, but you're wrong. No, that may not have been it's original focus, and it may never be, but without at least COMPETITIVE online gaming and capabilities, it just won't hold gamers' interests like 360 and PS3 will.

Online play, downloadable content, etc., really are the future (maybe even the present?) of gaming. If Nintendo tries to deny this, they'll REALLY be shooting themselves in the foot in another 6 months, or a year, or two years.

the doc · 03-29-2008, 10:51 AM

sure you guys have covered the consoles but what about who is making the biggest sum. from game titles

wezeles · 03-29-2008, 02:21 PM

The Wii will improve with online thats not in question, But it will not get to the level of Xbox will, nor will they even try.

Why?

Because it doesn't need to!

The demographics are clear, the majority of Xbox users are the 16-24 year old Male crowd and the type of games they love to play are Shooters/Sports/Racing ect.. Sure more is offered but the top selling games are these types of games and are the main reason Xbox exsist "no matter what any fan boy tells you"

It's not a bad thing it's just one specific direction to go in gaming. It's all about the competition with other people, not so much your friends at home, but also not a computer bot eaither. This is also why the Chat is so popular, you can talk trash to your opponets as you play, or work out a strategy with online teammates. This requires a great online setup to work. They have even gone a bit over board IMO and seem to toss everything online even when it's not needed.
This is probably due to the fact without online honestly the Xbox would have nothing real to offer, and people would get board of it pretty quickly unless they had enough cash to dump on a new game every couple weeks. The Multiplayer online is essential to the 360's sucess, it's not a bad thing it's what makes it fun!

Now the PS3 is a bit odd, they have a wider demographic, probably more of a 12-38 mixed crowd, with a little more to do. They seem to dabble a bit in both the die hard competition realm and also the more RPG/Sims style games that also require a stable connection, but not as extensive of an online setup as the 360 requires. So they are kinda in the middle. They also have a decent library of more casual games much larger than the 360's offerings, but no where near the Wii's

The Wii on the other hand has a huge demographic "not just kids and grandmas, and not just casual" from 1-99 of just about everyone can enjoy the Wii unless they specifically can't stand anything in gaming besides one genre that the Wii doesn't dominate.
But Wii does offer a little bit of everything game wise, They have a hit title in just about every game genre. Still their most popular games are the Nintendo classics of Adventure,Party,RPG,and a few group shooters and fighters. Unlike the xbox and to a lesser extent the PS3 the Wii doesn't need crazy online support for these type of games.
The games do very very well with 22 titles already breaking the million marker in only 16 months. But games like Wii sports,Mario Party,SMG,Wario Ware really wouldn't bennifit enough from online to be worth the investment. Nintendo has a whole different view at online as compared to 360 because it is only a perk to draw in some of it's very wide range of consumers. Still it is not a necessity to sell and probably will never be this gen because the type of console Wii is, its not hardcore but its also not just casual, its the everybodys console and they will treat it as such.
Now granted games like SSBB, Mario Kart could have sees even greater sucess because of the online suport, but it is still more of a party console that you play with you smaller group of friends in person, not with 30 some odd strangers on the net.
They will improve online game support for the games that will bennefit from it, beyond that it's a waste of money this round, and thats not something Nintendo is known for doing.

This is also not the same argument as DLC like xbox arcade or Wii-ware or bonus game download content, these types of features are essential to every console and is not really in the same catagory as online gaming, but online shopping. They will make some nice extra profit this round off these features.

jimbo · 03-29-2008, 02:37 PM

just read rock band wii has no online, whats the friken point of getting it, just get ps2 one, comes out earlier and is cheaper!!!

pissed!!!

madbeanman · 03-29-2008, 06:06 PM

id say even more than ten percent of people with wiis dont care about online.
Nintendo are so nervous about losing their family friendly image that they are being extremely cautious about stuff like voice chat.
As for DLC pay and play will sort that out but without a storage solution they may struggle on that front .I think we may see wiiware push nintendos online services better explored on wiiware because developers will be selling to a group of people whose wiis are already online as opposed to the off line group which would probably be a more casual group.
I tihnk nintendo will catch up eventually but stuff like friend codes will always come part of the deal because of nintendos paranoia about the dangers of the internet even though they have browsers on sale for wii and ds. Ah hypocrisy.

T3kNi9e · 03-29-2008, 09:18 PM

You got the percentages wrong. It's not 10% that don't care. It's 10% care about online while the other 90% could give a rats ass.

Sovieto · 03-29-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wezeles

The Wii will improve with online thats not in question, But it will not get to the level of Xbox will, nor willt hey even try.

Why?

Because it doesn't need to!

The demographics are clear, the majority of Xbox users are the 16-24 year old Male crowd and the type of games they love to play are Shooters/Sports/Racing ect.. Sure more is offered but the top selling games are these types of games and are the main reason Xbox exsist "no matter what any fan boy tells you"

It's not a bad thing it's just one specific direction to go in gaming. It's all about the competition with other people, not so much your friends at home, but also not a computer bot eaither. This is also why the Chat is so popular, you can talk trash to your opponets as you play, or work out a strategy with online teammates. This requires a great online setup to work. They have even gone a bit over board IMO and seem to toss everything online even when it's not needed.
This is probably due to the fact without online honestly the Xbox would have nothing real to offer, and people would get board of it pretty quickly unless they had enough cash to dump on a new game every couple weeks. The Multiplayer online is essential to the 360's sucess, it's not a bad thing it's what makes it fun!

Now the PS3 is a bit odd, they have a wider demographic, probably more of a 12-38 mixed crowd, with a little more to do. They seem to dabble a bit in both the die hard competition realm and also the more RPG/Sims style games that also require a stable connection, but not as extensive of an online setup as the 360 requires. So they are kinda in the middle. They also have a decent library of more casual games much larger than the 360's offerings, but no where near the Wii's

The Wii on the other hand has a huge demographic "not just kids and grandmas, and not just casual" from 1-99 of just about everyone can enjoy the Wii unless they specifically can't stand anything in gaming besides one genre that the Wii doesn't dominate.
But Wii does offer a little bit of everything game wise, They have a hit title in just about every game genre. Still their most popular games are the Nintendo classics of Adventure,Party,RPG,and a few group shooters and fighters. Unlike the xbox and to a lesser extent the PS3 the Wii doesn't need crazy online support for these type of games.
The games do very very well with 22 titles already breaking the million marker in only 16 months. But games like Wii sports,Mario Party,SMG,Wario Ware really wouldn't bennifit enough from online to be worth the investment. Nintendo has a whole different view at online as compared to 360 because it is only a perk to draw in some of it's very wide range of consumers. Still it is not a necessity to sell and probably will never be this gen because the type of console Wii is, its not hardcore but its also not just casual, its the everybodys console and they will treat it as such.
Now granted games like SSBB, Mario Kart could have sees even greater sucess because of the online suport, but it is still more of a party console that you play with you smaller group of friends in person, not with 30 some odd strangers on the net.
They will improve online game support for the games that will bennefit from it, beyond that it's a waste of money this round, and thats not something Nintendo is known for doing.

This is also not the same argument as DLC like xbox arcade or Wii-ware or bonus game download content, these types of features are essential to every console and is not really in the same catagory as online gaming, but online shopping. They will make some nice extra profit this round off these features.

i wish to counter this. i think its some of a bit more than half of 360 owners dont have it hooked up to the internet. 360 has oblivion, which can be hundreds of hours on its own, bioshock, forza2, dmc4, ect. what the online really does is keeps people playing for hours on end every day, without it people can still find much entertainment, just they wont be hooked like youll find online gears players, halo players, or cod4 players are.

Shoti · 03-29-2008, 09:32 PM

At least Nintendo threw us a (small) bone this time. I hope that the future generation of Nintendo consoles continue to make up for past oversights.

But please get rid of these damn friend codes.

T3kNi9e · 03-29-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovieto

i wish to counter this. i think its some of a bit more than half of 360 owners dont have it hooked up to the internet. 360 has oblivion, which can be hundreds of hours on its own, bioshock, forza2, dmc4, ect. what the online really does is keeps people playing for hours on end every day, without it people can still find much entertainment, just they wont be hooked like youll find online gears players, halo players, or cod4 players are.

True, with 17.7 million 360's sold (last recorded) only 10 million even have an account. From those 10 million not all of them are gold subscribers, so that means more than 7.7 million 360 owners do not play online.

wezeles · 03-30-2008, 12:13 AM

Like I said your still talking about the majority using it, with 60% of the people that own a 360 also use online. And thouse numbers came out in January, Thats pretty impressive, it's probably more by now. It shows even beyond the #1 multi player online setup they have a good chunk of people with access to the other features of online such as the download content and chat.
What kind of sales have they had with arcade/marketplace so far? I havent came across a sales figure yet. Without these online customers and sales of online games and products Xbox would be a mear shadow of what it is today. Ignoring that makes you a real fanoy.

I guarantee you Nintendo is no where Near these numbers for users with online, even when its offered Free and with more consoles on the market. I know both my brothers in law don't have it, even after they saw what you can do with it on my systems. Heck I even gave one of them the Nintendo dongle to hook it up and he ended up never using it.
Maybe as more features come out like Wii-ware and stuff but honestly I don't think the "casual" gamer will get hooked on the Online/DLC untill it is a key player and not just an extra for a console, which isn't going to be this generation.

You have to understand all 3 systems have their die hard fans, the people that want every option offered, and everything given to them improved apon. But this is not the majority this is the smaller amount of fans that buy up everything. The key with xbox is these same minority of fans acctually direct the way the console does move forward, and the casual gamers on the 360 acctually follow suit with the die hard fans if they want to or not because that is what MS offers. Probably why alot of people end up listing the 360 as the "hardcore" console.

Nintendo on the other hand follows the majority and the majority of online users mainly hop online for a VC game so far. Even then it's not huge numbers when related to console sales.
http://kotaku.com/352869/virtual-con...s-wii-shortage

If the sales of online games where better or when the DLC increases in sales that is when Nintendo will invest more in online. If you want more online honestly you have to start buying up more online products, good or bad, you have to show Nintendo its worth it for them to continue to invest in online, otherwise they will not take the risk if its not needed.

linuxghost · 03-30-2008, 05:26 AM

If Nintendo doesn't make advances in online capability within the next year, I certainly will be buying a PS3 or 360, and I'm sure many others with my mindset will as well.

I do think it will get a lot better, though. WiiWare alone is solid evidence of this, in my opinion.

Those people saying, "WII NEVER HAS HAD ONLINE AS A FOCUS AND NEVER WILL," are in denial, in my opinion.

wezeles · 03-30-2008, 04:53 PM

They focus on online, they just don't toss it on every random game to help it to sell. I would say Nintendo is doing a Good job of online acctually. Games like Strikers,SSBB,Mari Kart,BW2,Endless Ocean all are improved with the online service provided. Maybe it's not the best online but it does help the games along in a simple user friendly setup.

I think more people are upset about things such as DLC and Voice taking so long, and the bad setup of friends codes for online. But again this is Nintendo's first time making online games for a console, They are trying to make sure all the customers are happy and at the same time balance the gain to loss ratio off these add on's. This is still a minority sales area for Nintendo.

If anything we should be upset with 3rd partys lack of online support like with games such as Rock Band, Worms, Redsteel,Blazing Angles, Need for speed ect. ect. They are all pretty use to the concept of online games making them for other consoles and PC's. These are the games that could and should have been online no question.
I know Nintendo wasn't a huge supporter at first of getting these games online untill they themself got some out. But it has been some time since you could say that, and the attitude twards the Wii "still after great sucess" from the 3rd party is the main issue with most owners. Everyone else get's support why not the Wii version?

You can try to blame Nintendo all you want but really they are the only ones atleast trying to make it better. It's the 3rd party Publishers that are screwing the Wii owners over, which to me makes no sense with the great sales of consoles and games on the Wii in such short time.

Profit suicide I tell ya, Profit suicide.

Big_League_Slugger · 03-30-2008, 05:09 PM

Online won't kill the Wii but it hurts it.

I have SSBB and its a great game but there isn't much to keep me going back. I play online with my friends and it gets boring. I'm not going to use 3rd party to talk to them when I could play a 360 or PS3 game with them and have more fun.

It would be nice if the Wii had Voice, DLC, No Friendcodes, and not some many kid games.

wezeles · 03-30-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_League_Slugger

Online won't kill the Wii but it hurts it.

I have SSBB and its a great game but there isn't much to keep me going back. I play online with my friends and it gets boring. I'm not going to use 3rd party to talk to them when I could play a 360 or PS3 game with them and have more fun.

It would be nice if the Wii had Voice, DLC, No Friendcodes, and not some many kid games.

Ya but then it would be called 360 ha ha.. For what it does and who it's mainly directed at "new and casual gamers" it works well, Its not everything in one box but then again none of the consoles are. If you want all the best gaming has to offer you have to buy everything, all there is to it.

No one console does everything better or worse, they just each do it different from eachother, and they all offer us the best of specifc area's.

It's called variety without it we would be bored and there would be no point of 3 consoles being on the market.