Wii/Zelda rant.. no spoilers whatsoever.

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbandaidx

Clearly you don't understand much about televisions.

Here I'll clear it up some more for you. Televisions are just like computer monitors, they have screen resolutions just like CRT and LCD screens. Standard Televisions are basically 680x480. (some newer ones like ones that can sport 480p are a bit higher)

That means analog televisions have 480 interlaced lines, however from how televisions are designed they can only use 70% so in this case about 400 lines are displayed on your screen.

The more lines you have, the more detail and clarity. It would be pointless having a gaming system that is HD on a standard TV. You could probably get a away with it a bit if you had a television that can handle 480p, but even then you are only using a fraction of it and still have half decent graphics.

If your a graphics buff, then get a HDTV (720 or 1080 lines) set, and then a PS3 or Xbox360, but quite frankly you'd just look funny having these console that has so much graphics potential not being taken advantage of because you have a standard TV which can't display all those lines, those lines are what make graphics look amazing! Having a 360 or PS3 on a normal TV, you just have an incredibly dumbdown image.

So how does this all go together?

Well, the latest statistics show that only 5% of all american households have a HDTV set. Why should Nintendo have to dish out all this money (as well as consumers) for a system that would be used on a standard television that can't truely show graphics?

If you get an awesome developer to make a game for all three consoles, and make the graphics as best as the system can handle, and then display it on a crappy standard television, they'll all be on par with each other.

there are so many factors that go into visual quality.. resolution is only one, its so overhyped its ridiculous. computer monitors have been 'hd' for years, and are even higher than 'hd' resolutions..

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbandaidx

Clearly you don't understand much about televisions.

Here I'll clear it up some more for you. Televisions are just like computer monitors, they have screen resolutions just like CRT and LCD screens. Standard Televisions are basically 680x480. (some newer ones like ones that can sport 480p are a bit higher)

That means analog televisions have 480 interlaced lines, however from how televisions are designed they can only use 70% so in this case about 400 lines are displayed on your screen.

The more lines you have, the more detail and clarity. It would be pointless having a gaming system that is HD on a standard TV. You could probably get a away with it a bit if you had a television that can handle 480p, but even then you are only using a fraction of it and still have half decent graphics.

If your a graphics buff, then get a HDTV (720 or 1080 lines) set, and then a PS3 or Xbox360, but quite frankly you'd just look funny having these console that has so much graphics potential not being taken advantage of because you have a standard TV which can't display all those lines, those lines are what make graphics look amazing! Having a 360 or PS3 on a normal TV, you just have an incredibly dumbdown image.

So how does this all go together?

Well, the latest statistics show that only 5% of all american households have a HDTV set. Why should Nintendo have to dish out all this money (as well as consumers) for a system that would be used on a standard television that can't truely show graphics?

If you get an awesome developer to make a game for all three consoles, and make the graphics as best as the system can handle, and then display it on a crappy standard television, they'll all be on par with each other.

I'm talking about detail here, you need a screen that can show that detail (lines).

So in conclusion, Nintendo was smart. They found the middle ground which can be found on most TVs today (480p). They are targeting the mass. Sure consumers probably don't know this, but at least Nintendo isn't trying to screw over people.

there's a hell of a lot more that goes into visual quality than simply screen resolution. pc monitors have been 'hd' (or high res) for years, even higher res than hdtv..

Wii_Smurf · 12-07-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibjab

I'd rather just push the A button to make him swing his sword..

STUPID!
Thats what it's for. But I can tell you I've played Tennis in GAME and the IR is brill!
With friends it would be better obviously

Transfixed · 12-07-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibjab

i've never owned a sony or ms console, i pretty much only play videogames these days if its a nintendo first party title. charging $250 for a system thats a little more powerful than the gamecube (twice as powerful is nothing, compare intels fastest chip in 2001, p4 2ghz 400mhz bus to todays fastest intel, the quad-core 5300, 4 x 2.66ghz w/ 1333mhz bus). technology moves fast, the quad core is actually cheaper than the p4 was in 2001..

anyways, a token increase in power and a remote that kinda works, thats not worth $250 and the fact that you guys think you got a deal is even more shocking. its a ripoff, if the remote worked flawlessy, that would be one thing, if the remote worked as well as it does but came with a truly upgraded system, that would be fine too..

but yes i will definitely be selling my wii, as soon as i'm done with zelda.

Either you're incredibly ignorant, or just completely stupid.
Did you listen to NOTHING about the Wii before it came out? It was WELL known how powerful it would be, what the graphics would generally be capable of, and there were TONS of screenshots of Zelda before it came out. Now suddenly that you've gone out and purchased it, your "disappointed" with the "minor graphical upgrade"???? Gimme a break!!
I have a 40 inch LCD HD-TV and the component cables, and Twilight Princess looks downright AMAZING. Obviously sharper and more detailed, more textured than anything I saw on the Gamecube. It's not in freaking 1080i, but did you honestly expect that before it came out? Where have you BEEN this whole time?
And as far as the control goes, I too was a little annoyed at first and thought I'd rather just push a button, but, like Redsteel, the more you get used to it, the more natural it feels, and by mixing it up with the left-hand sword spin, the jump attacks, and the rolling/dodge attacks as WELL as the shield attacks, it's a pretty diverse fighting scheme that doesn't come across as gimmicky at all.
Give it more time, get further into the game, and you will truly enjoy it. And also, get some component cables and a high-def tv. You will NOT be birching about the graphics guaranteed. The Wii is significantly more powerful and it's obvious.
$250 for a fantastically fun gaming system is not anything close to a ripoff.
And to sell your Wii before Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Bros. Brawl come out is downright foolish. But if you want to be a fool, that's your right. ENJOY!

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfixed

Either you're incredibly ignorant, or just completely stupid.
Did you listen to NOTHING about the Wii before it came out? It was WELL known how powerful it would be, what the graphics would generally be capable of, and there were TONS of screenshots of Zelda before it came out. Now suddenly that you've gone out and purchased it, your "disappointed" with the "minor graphical upgrade"???? Gimme a break!!

like i said earlier in this thread, i said i would have been happy spending $250 on the new system if the actual wiimote worked as well in practice as it did on paper, but it doesn't.. and i'm not complaining about zelda graphics, its a gamecube game afterall, i do think its cheap that they didn't release the GC version on nov 19th.. making their loyal customers wait a month or pony up to play a game that was promised for gamecube a year ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfixed

Give it more time, get further into the game, and you will truly enjoy it. And also, get some component cables and a high-def tv. You will NOT be birching about the graphics guaranteed. The Wii is significantly more powerful and it's obvious.
$250 for a fantastically fun gaming system is not anything close to a ripoff.
And to sell your Wii before Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Bros. Brawl come out is downright foolish. But if you want to be a fool, that's your right. ENJOY!

i hope the controls get better but i've already put 7 hours into the game and i'd still rather push A. i also really don't like the fact that you need to swing the wii to get link to draw his sword. i'm not that excited about metroid prime 3, if they get the controls down it could be great, but visually it will just be an extension of mp and mp2.. metroid prime 2 just felt like new levels, it didn't feel like a new game to me. mario sunshine wasn't so hot so we'll see how galaxy does, the whole outer space thing could get old.. i really wanted to play zelda, i'll wait and see for mario/metroid.

yuzi87 · 12-07-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryChevalier

relax lol....no need to yell.....

lol, well im so sick of people bloody moaning about wiis graphics, if u dont like it buy summat else and stfu

boo hoo wii doesnt have as good graphics as 360 or ps3.....

CUS THEY DIDNT MAKE IT WITH ****EN MIND BLOWIN GRAPHICS WHICH EVERYBODY HAS KNOWN FOR AGES SO DONT COMPARE THEM!!!!!!

JIBJAB>....hmmm wii doesnt have as good graphics and im a graphic whore, also control format looks dodgy as i like to just caveman mash buttons.....hmmmm.....I KNOW! ill buy a nintendo wii and then when it proves to be everything i knew it was ill bitch about it on a wii forum to everyone who owns one and loves it!

fiveryanfrenzy · 12-07-2006, 09:03 PM

i guess it is personal opinion but

i think the wii remote/nunchuck for zelda is great because you can sit in the chair with each arm at your side on the chair arms instead of sitting hunched over a controller with your hands together on it. it's way more comfortable, and after you get used to it, the controls are amazing, especially for aiming.

i can't see why people ever complain about the wii controller, for me it has been flawless and solid, not gimmicky at all

you just need to give it a chance, then you can see how revolutionary it is

just relax with it, don't swing the sword like a monkey, just little flicks of the wrist while you lounge back in your chair, you don't even need to lift your arm up for aiming, just angle it towards the tv

ganton · 12-07-2006, 09:05 PM

the wii doesnt have next gen graphics to keep the price down. they wanted it to be more parent friendly. plus the controller is more expensive then the other aspects of the wii so they needed balence

Master Foot · 12-07-2006, 09:08 PM

Did anyone notice that there is a difference between the early builds of Zelda and the retail one? Most notably, there was a one eyed spider monster chasing Link in the forest. In the retail version, that monster does not even exist! It looks like Nintendo cut major stuff out the game.

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuzi87

lol, well im so sick of people bloody moaning about wiis graphics, if u dont like it buy summat else and stfu

boo hoo wii doesnt have as good graphics as 360 or ps3.....

CUS THEY DIDNT MAKE IT WITH ****EN MIND BLOWIN GRAPHICS WHICH EVERYBODY HAS KNOWN FOR AGES SO DONT COMPARE THEM!!!!!!

JIBJAB>....hmmm wii doesnt have as good graphics and im a graphic whore, also control format looks dodgy as i like to just caveman mash buttons.....hmmmm.....I KNOW! ill buy a nintendo wii and then when it proves to be everything i knew it was ill bitch about it on a wii forum to everyone who owns one and loves it!

yeah i'm an idiot who likes to caveman bash buttons, all you do with the wiimote in zelda is senseless swinging, there's no rhyme or reason to it anymore than button mashing.. its not like link mimicks your movements. the reason i'd rather hit the button is because it reacts more acurately than the wiimote, you push the button, something happens instantly, every single time.. with the wiimote, you swing, but sometimes link doesn't swing, thats gets annoying real fast.

fiveryanfrenzy · 12-07-2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibjab

yeah i'm an idiot who likes to caveman bash buttons, all you do with the wiimote in zelda is senseless swinging, there's no rhyme or reason to it anymore than button mashing.. its not like link mimicks your movements. the reason i'd rather hit the button is because it reacts more acurately than the wiimote, you push the button, something happens instantly, every single time.. with the wiimote, you swing, but sometimes link doesn't swing, thats gets annoying real fast.

actually if you get into a rhythm with your swinging he will swing his sword back and forth, it's sophisticated

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiveryanfrenzy

i guess it is personal opinion but

i think the wii remote/nunchuck for zelda is great because you can sit in the chair with each arm at your side on the chair arms instead of sitting hunched over a controller with your hands together on it. it's way more comfortable, and after you get used to it, the controls are amazing, especially for aiming.

i can't see why people ever complain about the wii controller, for me it has been flawless and solid, not gimmicky at all

like i said in my first post, i think splitting the controller in two is genius. if sony or microsoft is smart they will come out with a split controller. its a shame they didn't make the nunchuck wireless..

nintendo should have given people the option to play zelda without having to swing the wiimote, custom controls for those who'd rather press A, and difficulty settings.. first timers can put it on easy, veterans can up the difficulty, plus it gives the game replay value like metroid prime.. finish it on easy or medium? try again on hard.

yuzi87 · 12-07-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibjab

yeah i'm an idiot who likes to caveman bash buttons, all you do with the wiimote in zelda is senseless swinging, there's no rhyme or reason to it anymore than button mashing.. its not like link mimicks your movements. the reason i'd rather hit the button is because it reacts more acurately than the wiimote, you push the button, something happens instantly, every single time.. with the wiimote, you swing, but sometimes link doesn't swing, thats gets annoying real fast.

if u stab it forward he stabs it forward if u slash he slashes if u shake the nunchuk he does sword spin, u can aim for shooting arrows use wii-mote as a fishing rod......obviously a big button with mash me written on it can do all that

jibjab · 12-07-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiveryanfrenzy

actually if you get into a rhythm with your swinging he will swing his sword back and forth

not only does it not pick up what direction you're swinging, up, down, left right.. it doesn't register the size of your slash, the speed of it, etc.. it doesn't even come close to mimicking your movements.. not even by a long shot. pure gimmick. you guys are delusional..

yuzi87 · 12-07-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibjab

not only does it not pick up what direction you're swinging, up, down, left right.. it doesn't register the size of your slash, the speed of it, etc.. it doesn't even come close to mimicking your movements.. not even by a long shot. pure gimmick. you guys are delusional..

jesus u expect a lot dont you, we didnt jump from horse and cart to cars in a generation, we didnt jump from portable b+w 10x10 resolution tvs to giant 153" super high definition tvs in a generation...

so what makes u think u are gonna jump from a normal controller to some super motion sensing controller thats only in its first couple of months of development in games , give it time it will only get better

and also the comments u make are trying to force your oppinion on people yes your right we must all be delusional all over a million of us except for you because luckily you wasnt brainwashed enough to buy one....OH RIGHT SORRY U DID LOSER

CoryChevalier · 12-07-2006, 10:15 PM

Just because you personal don't like it doesn't mean that Nintendo should have it another way to...."I don't like the color on the Zelda box, why didn't they make one availible in BLUE too!!!"....that's pretty much how you're sounding. They didn't make it availible...

and as I already said, no Zelda isn't the best game for illustrating the Wii abilities since it is a GC port...stop arguing the case for one game and give it some time for developers to make games just for the Wii...Wii sports is pretty damn good and that is just a collection of mini sports games...can't wait till I buy a full game a golf now!

Khool-Ade · 12-07-2006, 11:16 PM

I pretty much would say i agree with most people here. I totally apperciate your opinion on how you think the system/controller work, but that doesnt mean you need to force feed us till we agree. You should think of it this way as well. the whole swinging of the controller was an added bonus(or defect in your opinion). It wasn't orginally going to be in the game at all and they added it in the last seconds. I think alot of Zelda lovers really enjoy this aspect of the game because now you can "play" Link a little more than usual. Also like others say you can't really expect right out the gate for the Wii and its remote to be the most perfect utensil since the butter knife. i mean even PS2 had problems in the beginning, many 1st generation systems had problems with the DVD player conking out. And yes i read your argument on how you beleive it stupid for people to play DVDs on their PS2 but you have to remember that was on of the biggest selling features of the PS2. Many people ended up buying it instead of a DVD player since it did both. Zelda along with the other launch titles are all a test. "lets see what we can do and then lets make it better." Its all possible since the technology is right there in the remote.

And as far as graphics go yeah sure its no bohemouth and could have been ok with a little more but hey what can you do really. It was Nintendos choice and every one knew ahead of time. I wouldn't be surprised if because of it many people were turned off, but that again is their opinion and i can appreciate that. The Wii wasn't really designed to snatch up those hardcore gamers with thier giant HDTVs, they made it so people like my 49 year old sportsman(hunter/fisher) dad can get into it.

Also calling it a $250 dollar gamecube with a new controller is a bit silly i think. i mean its a whole different system, with channels, e-mail, and the ability to download and save games right on it. Miis are a whole new feature and i dont know if the PS3 or XBOX 360 offers anything comprable to that. You just make it sound like you totally regret getting the thing and refuse to find any good, which makes this puppy sad http://www.dogchannel.com/images/zon...t_promo_15.jpg

In closing Wii all love you and, i will buy you Wii when you are done!