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480p only? Or does the Wii change back and forth?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Wii Chat' started by Taheen, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Sorry, I'm not really sure on all the specs related to the Wii and the 480p.

    What I'm curious about is I'm limited to my 1440x900 19" widescreen flat panel for all my pc/tv goodness. Currently I use a Tv Wonder VE card to run GC and PS2 via composite, there is no noticable lag but the quality leaves much to be desired. I'm almost certain the res is is the 320x240 area.

    What I'm curious about is getting a transcoder box like the http://www.vdigi.com/ but the real transcoder boxes (not just line doublers) only convert progressive signals to vga through component and no 480i.

    So my long-winded question here is once the Wii is told to output in 480p will it always output in 480p. The boot screen ALL Wii games, the channels list, etc etc.... if I never played a 480i GC game on in would the Wii and all Wii games be 480p?

    If not the I guess I need to start looking for a bit better tv capture card, any suggestions on a nice 640x480 software encoder tuner card?
     
  2. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    Taheen,

    Just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one researching this issue. I've got a component->VGA transcoder box based of one of the newer national semiconductor chips that does 480p, 720p, and 1080i, but no 480i over component. My transcoder worked fine with my Comcast cable box in 480p, 720p, and 1080i modes, but it had issues when running 480i from my 10 year old Sony DVD player.

    Hopefully we'll have an answer in a week or so once component cables are available at retail. I'll post my success to this thread then. If it doesn't work, it may be a nice time to upgrade my display to something better.
     
  3. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Thanks, I appreciate the response. Glad to know I'm not alone wondering about using a transcoder with the Wii.

    I'm still on the fence, even if the Wii works perfect with only putting out 480p once set I can live without playing non progressive GC games but I think it'd be a bummer not being able to play Virtual Console games due to the transcoder restriction.

    Guess we will have to wait and see, and like you said.. worst case it'll be time to upgrade the display. I've liked this widescreen 19" but the 21" model I believe has component inputs, wonder how good/bad that would look. May have to research into that one.
     
  4. ilcid

    ilcid WiiChat Member

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    I believe (read it somewhere on here) that once you plug in the component cable, it will output all 480p. There is a jumper on the cable that enables the 480p mode. I wouldn't take my word for it though, as I just read it here and theres a good chance that whoever I read it from was pulling facts out of their ass. :D
     
  5. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Oh and btw Pridkett, I need to find the page again but I know I saw a newish national semiconductor chip that does 480p, 720p, 1080i, and it does do 480i as well. Havn't seen any commercial transcoders built off it yet though. Even then, I have heard bits about comp monitors not being able to display a raw 480i picture properly even if converted into a vga signal. Any input?

    I'd really hate to sink to having to run the Wii through a capture card.
     
  6. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Awesome, there is hope! :) Thanks!
     
  7. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    The chip that you're thinking of is the LMH1251. I ordered the newest design from MayFlash which is rumored to have this chip in it. However, because it's a transcoder, it does not upconvert the 480i to 480p. Thus, it will not work on my monitor, a Dell 2005FPW, in 480i mode.

    I ordered the component cables yesterday, we'll see how they work.
     
  8. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    How do you find out if a computer monitor can display a 480i signal?
     
  9. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    Really there isn't a straightforward method to do it. In general, an LCD monitor will not be able to do this resolution over the VGA inputs. Although, numerous monitors, including the Dell 200[57]-FPW series have composite inputs that allow them to display NTSC video. The next highest line for Dell, the 2407-FPW, has native component inputs.

    Anyway, the easiest way is to just hook it up and test it. I can say that I've never heard of an LCD working in 480i over a VGA connection. I was surprised that my monitor did 1080i over VGA, even though the native resolution of the panel is 1680x1050.
     
  10. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Spiffy, when you get all your goods in would you mind taking a picture of the screen? I'm curious just how good the Wii will look put through that transcoder to a widescreen flat panel through vga.

    A suppose a line doubler would let me do 480i but I'm sure the quality from a processed 480i signal vs a converted 480p is a noticable step down.
     
  11. vagrant

    vagrant ₪ ۩ ₪

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    More than likely your monitor will not display 480i, which is why you are going to find VGA boxes with component connections, especially ones that say they are primarily for vidgaming on your monitor. I'd recommend getting the component cables.
     
    #11 vagrant, Nov 30, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  12. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    Yes, the Wii does change back and forth

    Hey folks, my component cables arrived today. Here's a description of my setup:

    Display: Dell 2005FPW (20inch LCD, VGA/DVI/SVideo/Composite)
    Transcoder: Mayflash YPbPr to RGBHV VGA Box

    First things first, the Wii will default to 480i output over the component cables when you first plug them in. This means that if your display does not handle 480i over component inputs, which is a problem with my combination of transcoder and monitor, you'll need to do the shuffle with the plugs in the back of the Wii. Here's the trick that I did:

    Hook up the Wii using composite cables. Go to the Wii settings menu where you can select 480p, you'll notice it's grayed out. Now, find a friend, significant other, or whipping boy, and have them change the cables to the component while you keep your remote pointed at the 480p box. When it's plugged in, click to change, then move the Wii remote wildly in hopes of finding the confirm button. The tactile feedback helps here, but you certainly need a steady arm for this.

    Voila, you should have your Wii in 480p mode.

    From what I've read, most Wii games support 480p mode, although I think I remember seeing something that say Rayman Raving Rabbids did not[ support 480p/URL]. So almost anything that is Wii, you should get 480p no problem. Likewise, Gamecube 480p games will output in 480p. It will switch to 480i for a second, then switch back to 480p. Give it a moment and you should be fine. I tested that with Windwalker, Metroid Prime, and Need for Speed Underground.

    Now the bad stuff, games which were not progressive scan compatible will not be 480p. This means no 480p Super Smash Bros. Thus, if you want to play Super Smash Bros, you'll need to change the cables and reboot your Wii. Annoying.

    However, do not despair, there is still hope. According to some
    fairly reliable information the composite output is NOT disabled when running in 480i. This means it is possible to create a hybrid cable, as documented at this site.

    Anyway, now I've got a nice project for this weekend. I just need to crack open my official component cable, chop up a composite cable wire it in and put in a switch. I'll post pictures and a writeup when I'm done.
     
  13. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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    Ah, thank you very very much pridkett!

    Now that you have your goodies I have another question or two if you don't mind? If you have any Virtual Console games do they force 480p or do they as well switch over to 480i?

    Any experience with the good ol line doublers such as This one. Wondering how much the quality would drop using something like that box instead of the nice transcoder. That way I could also run the cable box through there too. I guess it all rests on the Virtual Console being forced 480p or not. Or both boxes but then that's $100 and at that point I'm on the way to just selling this monitor and getting a nicer one with component in. Wonder if those monitors' tuners do progressive out of the box.

    Lets see what else...

    How's the 480p look on your monitor? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    I only have one virtual console game, Bomberman 93. I just tested it this morning and it does output in 480p. I've noticed that it doesn't take up quite as much of the screen as it used to, but it looks quite nice. Yes, for anyone else, the TurboGrafx 16 originally output an interlaced signal.
    I've played with line doublers in the past, but I've never been really happy with them. It's also unclear if that line doubler actually handles 480p resolution. While it takes component input, it may only take 480i component input. At that price, that seems more likely. Most of the cheap $50 line doublers and deinterlacing have problems with consistent deinterlacing, gamma correction, or something more. If you're going for a line doubler, get something decent. I've seen good results using an XRGB3, but you need to look at the cost here. You're getting into the $200-$300 dollar range for the device, at which point it might be better to look into a newer TV or computer monitor. Many LCD TVs support both component and VGA in. It's not that expensive (~$800) for a 720p compatible LCD with DVI/HDMI input. Most of these display computers at 768p. If you want to spend a bit more, Westinghouse makes some decent 37 inch panels that are 1080p but lack a tuner.
    I have a Comcast DCT6200 that is hooked using my component to VGA transcoder also (well, actually I have an input switch before the transcoder). It's outputting in 1080i. However, in order to get the to work properly, I needed to find the manual online and figure out how to change the video output mode without using the OSD. Which is pretty straight forward -- on the DCT6200 press the menu button when the unit is "off" (which never is really off, it takes the same power, 32W either way).
    Good enough that my wife noticed the difference in Wii Sports and Zelda. On the down side, when you're really close, you can see the pixels, so some stuff looks blocky. Normally the fuzziness inherent in NTSC takes care of that.
     
  15. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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  16. pridkett

    pridkett WiiChat Member

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    As promised, I've gone through and hacked up my component cable to make it also support composite output. Now, I no longer need to switch cables because my TV can't handle 480i over composite. If you're interested in doing the same, I suggest you visit my instructable: Nintendo Wii combo Component/Composite Cable. If you've got feedback, let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.

    Overall, this wasn't that difficult. The hardest part was the paperclip.
     
  17. Taheen

    Taheen WiiChat Member

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  18. intekmdma

    intekmdma Add me and i'll add you!

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    you guys got me wondering now, I i can connect this to my 21'' CRT monitor just to try things out ><
     
  19. Chamius

    Chamius WiiChat Member

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    Rayman and 480p 480i support

    It seems this lack of a feature bit me today.

    What happens to you guys when you try to run Rayman with the component cables (I got Japanese imports of these) plugged in? I end up getting a blank screen, but I don't know if it's because the game refuses to run due to the component cables plugged in, or if it is able to at least send 480i out the component cable.

    I can't tell because my projector (an Infocus X1) doesn't support 480i into the component inputs. I could get an adapter to do this (for the S-video port, don't ask), but I'm wondering if it's worth it...

    Any information would be appreciated!
     
  20. vagrant

    vagrant ₪ ۩ ₪

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    FYI. You can change from 480p to 480i in the wii's settings.
     

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