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Discussion in 'Nintendo Wii Chat' started by CantGetAWii, Mar 1, 2008.
basically, ninty is winning and might win the war.
What an excelent aticle...
I agree 100%, although I wouldn't count out 360 all together.
I think as of now this group of "real casual" gamers has been pretty split between the 360/Wii maybe even some of the lingering PS2 sales even.
PS3 sadly is getting no real love besides its dedicated fans because of its price! They must must must fix the price soon or just throw in the towel for this round.
Wii could snatch up a good majority but they will need the "pop" titles to start moving to the console, like GTA,FF ect. ect. the really hyped up games that get nothing but attention. Problem is Wii needs the 3rd party support to do a good chunk of this. Although some of the killer Nintendo titles like SSBB,MK will snatch up some they will not get them all. specially when the Wii continues to get last years leftovers and ported PS2 3rd party games.
PS3 will get some of them with a price drop, I doubt they care much about Home, or any other of the "extras" on any console. This crowd just wants the popular games thats all. This is where Sony giving up so many exclusive 3rd party games on the PS3 will hurt them badly. Although they spent most there money bringing the technology to the consumer, the consumer will not bring the money to the technology if its not well supported, Gaming buisness 101, with plenty of high priced high end consoles having failed with this same concept! See 3DO,NEOGEO,Jaguar ect. ect.
360 could expand its casual market by snatching up some of these "pop" titles and making them exclusives like Sony use to do. Although they seem to be content with sharring them with PS3 recently because its in the minority console anyways they know they will win in sales in the end.
Still most of these games that get the "casual" gamers are the hit 3rd party titles, that is why MS/Sony pay to make exlcusives alot of the time.
Without the exclusivity it will just be evenly split between all 3 systems probably and really the only determining factor will be the different 1st party choices for some casual gamers.
It was an interesting read but I don't know if I'd say it was an excellent article. I don't think it was clear at all what needed to be done to lure this third crowd to a console. Nor was it even clear on what defines this third crowd.
Yes there are a lot of casual gamers who owned PS2s but I don't see how these are different from people who have bought a wii casually through interest in wii sports.
Perhaps you can explain this better wezeles. The article to me just said this group needs to be tapped. I don't really see how there is a clearcut way a console would target this demographic. I do see how the PS3 would drive them away with the price and non-exclusivity of the titles. I also see how 360s lineup of solid hardcore games may not interest them. Is the only thing that doesn't draw them to the wii the fact that there are fewer killer apps they are familiar with? Because if that is the case nintendo will never get the franchises that were so popular on PS2.
Like I said its Only the games they look for. What console its on doesn't matter to them they could probably care less. But they also arn't going to spend 400-500 dollars on a console to play the "pop" titles. Specially considering they are not payed to be exclusive to Sony anymore.
They are still casual gamers, they do it more or less for occasional fun not as a big hobbie in there life like hardcore. I've got a few friends that are this way they went and bought PS2 and only picked up like 3 or 4 games like the GTA,GH,ATV Racing games, and thats it! Same with a couple more who only bought Xbox/360 with some of the really big titles like Halo,COD,RockBand,GH.
They are willing to dump some cash on these big title games but they are not gonna stock up on games. They might buy 4-5 games total for the life of the console and rarely play it except when they are truely board or to entertaine friends. This is why they don't get noticed but why they dramtically improve sales numbers of the hit games, and can be the deciding factor in the Console War.
If 3rd party "pop" stays pretty well multi platform or even 360/PS3, then its not realy going to be a factor we notice in sales.
the wii is winning because the casuals arnt graphic whores, and they like good game play, which many hardcore fans dont seem to get (when it comes to the wii
my only input, i can see some1 even ruining this lol....
p.s only read first line in article:sick:
Great article but one point is so missing. It even says that the casuals are not going to be around for ever then it says that this casual is what the PS3 is counting on to beat nintendo. I agree but what if these casuals have moved on? I mean really I've meet so many PS2 owners who have kids now and got a Wii because they don't want their kids playing GTA or god of war. You see having kids changes your liberal ways some times. Have these casuals left the game? Did the PS3 convert them into hardcore players? Ken thought this had happened yet even he was wrong. Nintendo is the only company creating casual gamers and converting them over to addictive games right now. They done this by way of the mario parties and the DS along with feeding kids pokemon for years and of course the main franchises. Sony is relying on sequels that where actualy designed for hardcore gamers only and as I've seen many times before those sequels are what actually kills the hype of these games. If you really are hardcore you have a Wii and loads of VC games that you did not buy while you where a kid. Hey but lots of people started on a playstation yet lots of people started on a game boy and an nes yet that did not stop them from getting a PS1 did it?
Seriously I think the buzz of the PS2 has ran it's course and those casuals may have moved on. The price along was enough for them to move on. I remember having this conversation with people before. The casuals want easy games and don't really want to be challenged and just really want a story will they really pay a high premium for this? So far no. The core of gaming is based on challenges that get additively harder as the quality of the game rises by way of sequels or levels. The ratings have raised yet the games have failed to impress. The HD system are similar to buying a kit diablo to build on top of another car. Sure it looks good but still handles like a 20,000 dollar body you built it on. Hey but it looks so good! The Wii is like buying a 20,000 dollar car that doesn't use gas and drives for you while you surf the web. It may not go really fast but traffic jams would be like chilling on your couch with a lap top!
Another thing is price and the fact that moms and dads every where actually know about the Wii. As a kid it's going to be hard for you to convince mom and dad to get you a PS3 when they know a Wii cost like 250. Then on top of that there is nothing they want to try on the box and it does not have the idea that it's good for your kids because it makes the lazy bastards get up and move attached to it. Wii fit will only expand upon this.
So far we have
casuals- until they find there fix that leads to a gate way game.
Fanboy and girls that will support what they think is hardcore yet operate more like fare weather fans
The ones who have been gaming for a really long time and will buy what ever it takes to play the games they want to play regardless of stigma or price. Few people operate in that form of gaming. These guys actually but arcade kits and yes I know a few. They are range from PC gamers to retro expensive consoles.
The budget hardcore which opted to get a HD console rather than a PC upgrade.
Then you have the old school gamers who's types of games have almost disappeared thanks to 3d. Yet the Wii has totally been a blast for them.
Now you have the free roaming sand box online player. The xbox 360 player that needs voice chat! GTA out their platform right no point there.
The 3d engine only player. Which are the remains of the PS brand. Mostly the graphic whore who want a HD system but will not pay for the asking price.
Franchise players. They end up being fan boys mostly yet will follow a game to other platforms.
What makes it even harder is the fact that a gamer can not be stereo type into just any one of these categories totally. The more a fan likes you the harder it is to get new ones.
SONY changed to include us PC or tech junkies and lost their core the casuals.
Any loyalty that MS had will be gone once a box breaks many many times.
Nintendo is getting new comers to join the game and bring back relasped gamers while providing the deticated gamers stuff they will not get on other consoles, fun... And no I never have fun on the PC it is there to crush foes! LOL
there are some good points in the article but i donno if we can all agree what hardcore casual and non-gamers are
many of these terms might appease gamers but im sure if they are suitable from the stand point of the companys and how they look at gamers
what i think makes a gamer hardcore is how much he spend on video games not how much he plays
hardcore gamer is one who spends over $150 a year on vg
casual gamer is one who spends under $150 a year on vg
and a non gamer is some1 who rarely buys a video games but would if they found one game they really liked. buying a game every year or two if that.
a fanboy is some1 who talk about video games a lot wether its with his friends or in a message board
hardcore gamers are more desirable because they spend a lot of money on games
casual gamers are are almost as good and have the potential to be a hardcore gamer
non-gamers is actually a very small audience until recently where nintendo started taking advantage of this market
non gamers have the potential to be a casual gamers but will have to find and/or create genres for this market in mind.
fanboys can b hardcore casual or a non gamer. if they can help a company with free marketing so they are looked upon as a good thing.
does that mean a 8 year old who get his mom to buy a video game a week a hardcore gamer? yep a lot more hardcore then me even though he doesnt even pick up the sticks.
does that mean the person who buys the new madden game every year isnt hardcore? hes not hardcore just because he plays madden 8 hours a day. if he doesnt buy other games regularly he cant be hardcore.
some1 who buys 8 puzzle games a year can be more hardcore then some1 who buys halo 3.
they may not make enough games for a genre but you cant just say a style of game makes some1 casual or hardcore or a non gamer
so to say they dont make a game for this casual gamers is ridiculous
maybe the difficulty of a game might be decided on the fact of casual or hardcore
but that usually also decided on how new the genre is
fps are more difficult now then they were 5 years ago
but that doesnt mean that only hardcore gamers can play fps
a great point was that the competitive nature of the online games may scare off casual gamers but chances are if u have online games you are not a casual gamer anymore.
or to say online games are for hardcore gamers might not be true if online board games were to become popular
and who knows maybe people might buy 6 online board games a year and maybe they are hardcore
my point is this hardcore gamers are people who love and spend a lot of their money on video games
their are many genres being explored on all systems
i know nintendo has a lot of non gamer/fan boys who love the new style of gameplay
a lot of these non gamers might become hardcore
ahh tooo long too many big words my head hurts
Well, after reading this article and thinking for a bit I have come to the conclusion that most people on this board are serious causal gamers and that is a more accurate depiction of the market that needs to be fully tapped. I am serious casual gamer and by that I mean this. I play the games I love to play, however I don't need a fancy new tech stuff or massive online capabilities to enjoy the experience, what I do need is for the games I play to be complete and entertaining. This audience is what needs to be maintained by all 3 manfs.
In time I think we are going to see Nintendo reach a balance with the non gamer, the casual gamer and the serious casual gamer, personally I don't think they will ever grab the extreme hardcore FPS crowd but then again why would they, FPS is a fairly one dimensional genre, you run, you shoot, you dodge, then do it all over again until you get to the end of the level. Don't get me wrong I love my FPS games as much as the next guy, but when I want to be truly entertained and enjoy a game, I play something with more depth.
In the end all of this bickering about who will win and who will lose the console wars really doesn't matter, what does matter is that we as gamers our happy with the games we play. The manufacturer that consistently pleases it's audience will win the console war, not the one that sells the most consoles or has the greatest IP's. It will be the manf. that has never let their fans down and right now none of them can say that, nintendo is currently the closest to being able to say that, but they aren't there yet.
IMHO, casual gamers don't look for very many specific titles. Rather, they'll pick a console primarily based on whether it seems to have a good selection of good, playable titles (big names do help here, but it's the presence or lack of a variety of big names rather than the presence or lack of a specific game that's the issue). Once they've settled on a console, they'll but more titles for it, and only occasionally grumble about what games they can't play on their console.
A second important criterion for selecting a console is price. The casual gamer doesn't fit into a single socioeconomic class, but to most people in the broad-based demographic, the difference between a $250 console and a $500 console is significant.
A third criterion is reputation. Not what the game magazines say about a console; more like what the reviews on Amazon and the articles in non-gaming magazines say about a console.
Given these three criteria, the Wii is in pretty good shape. It's on the affordable end of consoles (although it's hurt by the lower resale value of used Xbox 360s), it has a decent lineup of games (although it is noticeably light on some of the big-name third-party games, as we all know), and it's got a stellar reputation outside of the gaming world - people have heard about it on the news, they've read about it in just about all mainstream magazines, and it's all positive).
The biggest thing hurting the Wii, again IMHO, is its limited availability. To get a Wii, you either have to really want one (enough to pay well over retail to buy one on eBay, or enough to figure out when and where to show up at a store before it opens), or you've got to be lucky, or both. If you want an Xbox, you walk into just about any store and buy one. If you want a Wii, you start by walking into just about any store and get laughed at by the clerk for being naive enough to ask. If you're a hardcore gamer and you want a Wii, you are likely to want it badly enough to go find one; if you're a non-gamer and want a Wii, you might well wait until the supply catches up to the demand; but if you're a casual gamer and want a Wii, you'll look for it for a few days then go buy an Xbox.
One other thing that feeds into it is familiarity. Sony had a big leg up because of the success of the PS and PS2, and probably sold some of the earlier 60GB PS3s to people who still wanted access to their library of PS2 games. They sacrificed a lot of their advantage when they gave it such a high price (and limited backward compatibility on the smaller, albeit still high-priced console), and they've thrown even more away by ditching the backward-compatible hardware on the new 80GB console. Nintendo had a limited base to draw on because of the limited success of the GC, but they have some - I know several casual gamers who bought GCs because they still remember the Mario titles from the NES.
All in all, to the (limited) extent that any console can "win" the console wars in any given generation, I think the Wii is well placed. The major thing alienating casual gamers is that it's just so hard to get a console, and I'm hoping that Nintendo is working diligently to get on top of their supply problems. Xbox is a strong contender, partly because of their year head start and mostly because of the third-party games availability, but as I said above, it's not the availability of a single game that draws in most casual gamers.
I cannot tell what kind of gamer I am. I thought I was a casual gamer, until it said "Casual gamers skipped the 64 and GC." And I know I'm not a non-gamer, and DEFINATLEY not a hardcore gamer.....Hmm.....I guess that makes me a "Casual Nintendo Gamer?"
Anyways, the war should come to a close soon...hopefully.
Is the author born after 1980? Too young to remember Atari?
Give me a break. This is basically someone crying about the fact that Sony lost perspective on the gaming market and is getting it's butt handed to them.
Regardless of how popular the Wii is and will be, there will always be an audience for PS3's and 360's, just like how PC gaming has never gone away.