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PS360 answers the Wii, finally

Discussion in 'Nintendo Wii Chat' started by Wiinter, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. Wiinter

    Wiinter Audentes fortuna iuvat

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    Now Nintendo Needs to Figure Out How to Respond.

    The Wii put up a heck of a fight, first blowing away expectations at opening, and then continuing their sales juggernaut to this very day (contradicting the 'Wii sales will die any day now argument).

    Sony and Microsoft Fight Back
    A big part of the reason "Wii" were able to have such a large advantage over the other consoles, despite inferior gfx abilities, was the price range. The PS3's recent price cut is likely to boost the PS3, but it isn't likely to dent Wii sales. Now the xbox 360 is expected to get cuts, with the core unit falling all the way to 250$; an answer to the PS price cut, and one that can have a big effect on Wii sales (eventually). With the Wii's promised hardcore support still floundering (and with no announcement in sight to fill the online vs FPS hole in the lineup), hardcore gamers are going to be hard-pressed choose it over an xbox. Also, once buyers consider the cost-spreading of owning a now-cheaper 360 (online fees and hardware addons), they may even consider a PS3 as an alternative. This is more than a shot across the bow to Nintendo.

    Sales numbers haven't really had a reason to change until now (now being when price cuts actually take effect). Sony and MS and their respective fanboys all thought the Wii was a passing fad, that they wouldn't need to respond. They still haven't come up with an answer to the control system, and likely can't (they're aren't going to give up standard controls, and having an alternate control system won't be effective and could be confusing--likely developers would ignore it and it would have no impact), but now they are finally addressing the Wii as a potent threat.

    Anyone who believes nothing can stop Nintendo is deluded. Doing nothing, as MS and Sony have proved over the past 9 months, will indeed change nothing. However answering the price discrepancy promises to have a big impact over time. Having closed the gap considerably while still offering far more features compared to the Wii, the arguments for the xbox and the PS3 have never been stronger. They've always been subsidizing impressive hardware, but now they're pushing it into a difficult-to-resist 'zone'. Nintendo is simultaneously showing signs of taking all their hard-earned success for granted--going on vacation. Their desire to still please the hardcore gamer gets mentioned now and again, but it's not showing up in the lineup, or even in announcements of future lineups. Their desire to deliver any online experience gets talked about, but the actual commitment is tiny. Pokeman, Soccer, SSBB. However good their reasons for cutting 3rd parties out of online this year, the choice has consequences: a weaker lineup. A lot of talk, not much action.

    Personally, I have no desire to return to button mashing, and current price cuts have no impact on what I'll be playing--I've already made my purchase. I'm not financially equipped to own 2 consoles, and likely wouldn't even if I could. But Nintendo isn't delivering the hardcore goods (yet). Although I don't Want to go back to the dual-analog way of life, I do WANT to actually use my snazzy now-gen controller for now-gen games. Nintendo's decisions will effect what ultimately gets dev'd for my Wii, and whether it will get resold or not. You want me to be patient Nintendo? Give me a date: when do you really enter the 7th generation? Sony and MS waited almost a year to respond to the Wii threat. Nintendo needs to be quicker on its feet with a counter-move.

    The New Breakdown

    They are focusing heavily on casual gamers, despite protestations to the contrary, and leaving people like myself with little to do. They are leaving potential new buyers with an ever more slanted feature and lineup disparity, begging them to end Nintendo's money-printing days. Basically, it breaks down like this:

    Wii: great controller, mini-games galore, traditional N franchises

    Xbox: better gfx, last-gen button mashing, now-gen online, mature hardcore lineup, cost-spreading (through add-ons and fees)

    PS3: even better gfx, now-gen online, last gen button mashing with optional ineffective sixaxis, full price upfront (everything you need in one package, no fees)​

    The sole remaining selling point is the controller--it's a strong selling point, but less so unless you've experienced how great it can be. Right now, there's little to demo that greatness. MP3C will be able to demonstrate how powerful the controller can be, but while doing so will simultaneously remind any hardcore gamer just how feature-poor the system is. I have this powerful control system, I just can't use it against real people.

    Will Nintendo Respond?
    No, I'm not suggesting that today is the day Nintendo died. I'm suggesting that these price cuts represent a real threat to Nintendo's juggernaut sales. What they need to realize is that they must answer this challenge. The easy way, especially since they are the only console making a profit on hardware, is to answer with a price cut. The more likely way, given Nintendo's history, is to answer with a console revision: colors, extra media features, maybe even additional storage space. What they should do is close the lineup and feature gap by encouraging online support from third parties, finding a new or existing IP to fill the hardcore lineup gap (if they need to partner with 3rd party to make it happen, if they need to make heavy investment and take on most of the risk, then that's what they should do) with something in the AAA category (once it has proven the Wii has the audience, 3rd parties will line up to provide additional content of the same type).

    I got sick of hearing how MP3C couldn't have incorporated online vs play (as opposed to how it shouldn't have the features) because it would make the single player mode suck, or because Retro has limited resources, or because of deadlines. It's all malarkey. For every such technical problem there is a viable technical solution. If it means additional hiring, or farming out parts of projects to 3rd parties, or partnering with 3rd parties--there is a way to make it happen. If Nintendo chooses to let their lineup continue to languish in late 5th gen, it is a choice, not a necessity. They are rolling in dough, in 3rd party support, in hype, in media love and attention, and all evidence to date says they aren't willing to leverage this to meet the hardcore gamer's desires on any near timeframe. Until I see evidence to contrary, it appears Nintendo is on vacation--reaping the harvest of their past year's labor.

    If you're nearing the 7th gen console market, and you like the Wii, you might want to wait until Nintendo returns from vacation. I don't think there's any company better suited to deliver a casual gaming experience--and they're on top of that. That alone can make them bags of money. I don't think there's any console with more potential to change hardcore gaming for the better--but Nintendo seems only vaguely interested in exploiting that potential. If you care about the latter, you might want to wait until they get serious about it with a little less talk and a lot more action.
     
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  2. WiiBad

    WiiBad Member of Wiichat

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    Yep. This is very comparable to my thoughts on the subject. Maybe saving up the dough to have both is the answer, but it would be nice to have it all in one. What is Nintendo missing? Slightly better graphics (maybe a bit more) and online play. Either of the other two totally answer this shortcoming. However, Nintendo could flat out have the market wrapped up and waiting only opens the door for the competition. Maybe this isn't a bad thing though, as for prices next gen.
     
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  3. CantGetAWii

    CantGetAWii WiiChat Member

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    Alright, one thing to get straight is the Wii is not dead. I can accept the term on vacation I guess, but with e3 coming up who knows what they have up their sleeves. And some solid titles for the wii are coming out later this year. The other thing is price cuts may help sony and microsoft a bit, but the only thing is when are some really great games coming out for sony. At least xbox has some old games out already, since they've been out for a year now. I dunno I am rambling a bit, but all in all the Wii is not dead.
     
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  4. vagrant

    vagrant ₪ ۩ ₪

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    I'll read this book when I get done with deathly hallows.
     
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  5. Wiinter

    Wiinter Audentes fortuna iuvat

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    @Wiibad: I can do with little-to-no gfx improvement. If developers continue what they're doing, it won't hurt my feelings. But it's long past time to fulfill the online promise.

    You won't hear me disagree. Even if they choose to abandon hardcore completely, their casual focus + built-in franchises are a proven money-maker. My only point is that for gamers like me, they haven't made good on their promises (yet), and that given this new pressure in the market, they should (with great haste). At this point in their lifecycle, they're on top (Even if they haven't yet completely surpassed the xbox's 1 year lead in total sales). They CAN stay way, or they can lose ground. It's their call.

    I desperately want them to succeed in both cas and hardcore markets, because I like their conception of how a game should be played so much better than anyone else's, and I wouldn't mind casual gamers subsidizing my hardcore games. But as it is, I'm being virtually ignored, and I don't intend to pretend I don't mind.

    @Vagrant: don't feel obligated to hurry through deathly hallows.
     
  6. ciper

    ciper

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    The backlash is coming. Mark my words.
     
  7. Sovieto

    Sovieto Banned

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    i love the "last gen button mashing" part of it, where as nintendos key title for the more mature crowd is SSB, which is all about button mashing
    also, the part of about saying the wii was a passing fad, but is still going, dosent make sense, people who say that dont mean 6-8 months into its life when its still a baby, they mean 2-3 years in when the next gen consoles are all in the middle of their life cycle.
    besides that it was a good read.
     
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  8. mushroomedmario

    mushroomedmario ssb4life

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    ssb about button mashing


    *scratches head


    ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME

    ssb is one of the few fighters that isn't about button mashing

    you give it to a hard core korean button masher, and on the screen, he would be just doing a b-up move the whole time

    man this is made by nintendo

    not capcom

    get yo facts straight

    ^_^
     
  9. Wiinter

    Wiinter Audentes fortuna iuvat

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    Yeah, that stings me a little too. The wiimote isn't the perfect interface for everything. I'm not sure they really could have done much different there. But the wiimote is a better interface for my favorites: RTS, FPS and RPG.

    Fair enough. People were talking about different kinds of fads. I believe there were some who believed that, 'of course all the old Gamecube owners are going to buy the new system, but after that...' and then there were those who looked at the Wii as store-brand novelty game machines that happened to be selling hot right now, but would follow a Elmo type fad line (weeks and months around the holidays), and for those two groups, I think they really were caught off-guard. Further, I don't think even the console makers imagined that the Wii's lead would be this high for this long, while still gaining (x to 1 against the PS3, then x+1 to 1, and so on).

    But you're right, others were comparing it to the longevity of say, the PS2 in real console life terms, or making commentary about how well it's souped down hardware would age as HD TVs became more and more standard. It's be some time before we find out if they were right or not.

    You're too generous. :)
     
    #9 Wiinter, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  10. Fox

    Fox Super Mοderator
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    Good scribe, but im pretty sure Nintendo is going to eventually fall behind, and keep falling...
    The GC folly is proof. However, as long as Nintendo starts online gaming (like you said) and gains some 3rd party support (also like you said ) they might stay afloat in sales, but if 360 actually drops to $250, in my opinion, its all over in sales.
    PS3 may just turn out alright now with this price cut as well. I like the cut! But for now, its all =ι
     
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  11. dogayonv

    dogayonv WiiChat Member

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    Wow Crazy

    Ok I totally agree with what he said about nintendo and all the price cuts ect. My take on all this is this. Life in general (all things) are forced to evolve or die.
    nintendo has always been a family console and thats great to focus on that but to be that and only that will eventually kill it in my opinion.
    What im saying is if you look back on familys, back 50 years ago how the kids were able to talk to their parents and how when they grew up how those kids could talk to their parents and so on. Kids today dont have the respect and morals ect that kids in the past did. Im not saying Everyone fits that mold Im saying the majority. Things now are rampant that we didnt have before like drugs ect.
    At any rate take tv for an example here you have things like 3 stooges and abbot and contello ect. Then cartoons and they were very differnt on the speech ect. Now you can walk down the street and a 5 yr old kid will curse you out and things like simpsons and all these other shows curse or use more adult humor (which Im not against) Im just saying Family values and the way people act and conduct themself are changing.
    Before there was no Blood gore ect on tv now its covered in pretty much every day life. People are used to seeing topless girls ect. If nintendo keeps this false grip on what a family is they are gonna die. Its time they opened up to more adult games Maybe dont Endorse or say yay we're behind all those adult things but just turn a blind eye.
    If you tell someone they CANT have something they want, if they want it bad enough they are gonna get it. If everyone who owns a nintendo says we want a racing game and nintendo doesnt allow racing games Then everyone is going to get one someplace and guess what it wont be from nintendo.
    I think nintendo can still be a family geared company and support them but familys are changing and so is the world. We love mario and all the cute games but its fun to play other things from time to time also. I think they are seriously hurting themself if they dont open up to a wider audenice (spelling) because right now the people they are appealing to are a dying breed they (in my opinion) seem to be trying to appear to the family family there was 10 years ago and that type of family is about gone.

    What you guys think am I on the money or what?

    I mean everyone can buy what they want if someone doesnt like a racing game they wont buy it if they dont want adult one they wont buy it. but atleast its there if you DO want it.
     
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  12. ciper

    ciper

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    It almost sounds like you have never played SB. In other fighting series you must hit the buttons in a very specific order to perform many of the complicated moves (special or combo) and SB does not have this.
     
  13. Fox

    Fox Super Mοderator
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    Thats what I was thinking.
    You should thank Ciper for giving you the deffinition of button-mashing mush.mario.^^
    In any case, good info wiinter.
     
  14. mushroomedmario

    mushroomedmario ssb4life

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    umm except for the fact that you can throw/use items, double jump and even though your special moves are easier than most fighting games, they are not 100% goign to his your opponment and can leave you vulnerable

    edit: and in marvel vs capcom(example) and can just keep pressing a button for a long time so your opponment dosn't even have a chance to fight back, this wouldn't happen in ssb, and you have the change to sheild(and move around) if your opponment is button mashing

    about the article, i don't think the ps3 will ever have enough sales as the wii, this gen the wii has more third party support and their second party and first party games kick ass(imo)


    tails, the gc isn't really proof, it hardly had any third party support , and the wii already has that, it's going to have online play which imo, ssbb and online it's going to kick-ass, i don't know about the whole province/countryworld but around my area, i have a LARGE amount of friends that are waiting for that to come out to buy the wii

    supply hasn't even met demand yet, i really think the wii is going to come up on top

    plus they have a promising future cause they have existing franchises yet to even be mentioned(starfox, tales, more mario sport titles,f-zero) and more franchises that can come out of the grave(kid icarus, earthbound)



    yeah~~~~~~~~~(sorry for rambling on)
     
    #14 mushroomedmario, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2007
  15. Wiinter

    Wiinter Audentes fortuna iuvat

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    I hope you're right, but if the backlash comes, what will Nintendo do? Straighten up and fly right? Or tell hardcore gamers Nintendo doesn't really need them, because they've got the cas gravy train now? I fear something more like the latter. They spoke convincingly at the beginning of the gen how they would cater to casuals AND hardcore gamers, and I suppose Mario is hardcore compared to cooking mama, but seeing pretty much the rest of the year already laid out, I see no evidence of action. They locked 3rd parties out of online for 2007, they've got their We'll protect you whether you like it or not FCs, and (hopefully E3 will change some, any of this) with the first year nearly over, there's still no worthwhile comm system announced (BT keyboard/headset).

    My last real remaining hope is that a 3rd party steps up. They shouldn't have to do it alone--Nintendo should consider a quasi-2nd party partnership where they invest heavily in an experienced company to fill out the lineup and prove the system's worth, but...

    Sigh.
     
  16. Fox

    Fox Super Mοderator
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    I think they know this, but maybe blinded by recent success maybe?
     
  17. Rosbaughcr

    Rosbaughcr WiiChat Member

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    When you said that the XBOX360 core system is only $250, isn't that the model without the hard drive (ie. the useless model)? I don't think the 360 price cut will do much to Wii sales. Wii is for one type of gamer, and 360 is for another, and then there are those of us who had to have both.
     
  18. vagrant

    vagrant ₪ ۩ ₪

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    I predict you are all wrong and Nintendo will be fine even with the 360 and ps3 price cuts.
     
  19. mushroomedmario

    mushroomedmario ssb4life

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    nintendo cares more for hardcore gamers cause they haev opinion on the matter, give wii sports to any casual gamer and they'll like it

    however a star fox game for example, a hardcore gamer will compare it to previous star fox games, and how long it is to other games(such as tp) and what not

    trust me wii health pack will sell a lot cause the wii is targeted to casual gamers and they'll like anything you throw at them
     
  20. Sovieto

    Sovieto Banned

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    no, get your facts straight.
    button mashing today, or how he used it, simply means using a controller that has all buttons. this term gained a new meaning once the wii came out. there are hardly any games that are just about mashing, the ones are just suck, like dynasty warriors.
    and what do you mean, made by nintendo, not capcom?? since when did capcom make a "button masher"?
    and no, a korean person wouldnt just be doing up+b the whole time, thats a horrible strategy..or, way to play. ssb is about shielding and parrys, on top of thinking fast.
     

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