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Discussion in 'Smash Brothers' started by The_Man, Oct 6, 2011.
what:lovewii: do you guys think about the people who banned meta knight from competitive play?
Uh... Good on 'em, I s'pose. Certainly no harm in trashing broken Meta so that a tourny's metagame isn't a cluster**** of the round sword weilding bastard. :lol:
Totally agree xd
Banning a character because he kicks your ass is not how things should work.
Its unbalanced Broadly speaking of Meta Knight's speed and aerial abilities, when properly put to use, can enable players to monopolize all air and ledge combat, which is a significant advantage in competitive Smash Bros play :yesnod:
In other words: If you're good with Meta Knight, you can kick ass. Same with every other character.
Except you can kick more ass against more characters while having no characters easily kick your ass, jeopardizing the balance of skill determining a match's end result, rather than the match-up.
We've debated the thesis of Meta's broken-ness before, if you've forgotten. I expect no more short and witty retorts and legitimate information to debate over if we're to do it again.
Hear about this on SRK. While i never cared much for MK, It seems like a decision that shouldve been made a while back. Brawl scene is fading nowadays (for now in the states). Most brawl players were like ......meh. But hey, better late than never. I dont use the guy so I could care less at the end of the day what they did with him. Wolf or Die
At least there will be debates about this after the new smash bros come out cant wait:wink:
^^^ If Meta is overpowered two games in a row, I'll find and Final Smash Sakurai myself. ¬_¬
^Except he's not overpowered. Doubt he will be OP twice when he isn't in the first one.
We ain't talkin' 'bout Brawl+ bro.
Hang on. What are you talking about?
Im sure hell make the cut for the next SB due to his fans.
Went allover trying to see footy showing how broken he is.Honestly I never thought he was broken but I guess the people who do the tier stuff know more than I do. I found some stuff saying he was but it just looked that the people he was fighting sucked. Even in tournament footage. Of course I also saw rants saying he wasnt. But it was the usual smash community banter back with forth with insults by kids. So im gonna leave it at that MK was broken and the Smash board did the right thing.
It certainly is difficult to 100% assuredly say whether or not Meta is broken, I will be honest. But, there's no doubt he's a plague to the metagame. Time to do what I do best; compare things entirely unrelated to pokemon.
In "srs 'mons", where people are playing all try-hard like people as Smash Bros. tournies do: they take the game to the next level, simply put. In srs 'mons, from here on which I'll refer to as "competitive pokemon", EVERY pokemon is divided into tiers depending on usage of the pokemon, which pretty much translates into how good a pokemon is. Pokemon used little move down in tiers, and pokemon used more move up.
Competitive pokemon battles use one tier at a time, and all pokemon in lower tiers if the players so desire to use 'em.
In Brawl terms, it'd be like this: if you're having a middle tier Brawl (C & D), you won't be able to use Snake or Olimar to say the least. You'll see the better middle tier fighters like Wolf or Toon Link most often, but the lesser fighters will be allowed as well (Ganon, Lucas, etc.) if a player thinks they're just that good with 'em. Competitive pokemon is the same; the best pokemon in the tier will be the most commonly used, but some players are good enough to discover ground-breaking strategies for pokemon that are generally considered lesser.
The most commonly played tier in pokemon is the high tier known as "Overused pokemon", Brawls equivalent would essentially be tier A, and maybe B. There are plenty of absurdly strong pokemon that pretty much break usage stats if they were to be allowed in Overused battles, and would make the Overused tier worthless, since all the really good pokemon would never be played over the incredibly good pokemon, unless you're an idiot. Thus, these pokemon that "centralize" the tier, which means to kill the usage stats of every other pokemon in the tier, are banned from play. They still can be used in their own tier of course, which is Pokemon's equivalent to the "S" tier of Brawl. But battling with all pokemon allowed as such is still chaotic, and does have some moderate centralization.
We all know how many Meta Knights are found in tournyplay. Half the entrants, perhaps even more on average, are Meta. That would be considered a ludicrous amount of centralization and saturation in any pokemon tier metagame if ANY pokemon was as commonly played. Back to when I said pokemon's tiers are divided by usage stats, I stated that high usage directly hints to a pokemon being better. The same holds true in Brawl, really; better characters are used more often. Meta is used so often, it's obvious how much better he is than the entire Brawl cast.
Of course, usage stats only say how good something is in comparison to everything else. You can't really dissect whether or not something in a game is completely broken from usage stats. Hence why I said it's difficult to precisely pinpoint is Meta is utterly broken. Too good to allow him to run rampant on the tourny metagame? Absolutely. Too good to the point he's the greatest mistake of Brawl? Debatable.
Anyone who understood all that deserves a cookie.
^ It's also similar to YuGiOh. When going to a competitive environment, you would have to have divine favor from the gods to not have about 75% of the people there using either Fairies, Plant Tengus, or Legendary Six Sams. People abuse the top tier, which I find annoying. I've never been one for using top tier, so that's why I've never used Meta. I don't know if he's ban worthy, only because he has been unban for so long. I feel it would be ban worthy if he had been back when this game was in its prime, because now it seems silly. It sounds like their listening to the members of the community too late. But that's just my opinion of course.
... You're one of the competitive battlers I was talking about, you cheat. You'll get your cookie once you beat me bro.
What do you mean you were talking about me? Blasphemy.
A-No cookie until I figure out what the f*ck a Plant Tengus and Six Sams are.
B-Tried to read all of SSBfreaCKs latest post but then a squirrel ran by and you know how that goes.
C- Who IS the most used Pokemon?
D- Who do you think MK players will use now?
A: Yugioh stuff, don't worry about it. :lol: Look what the **** you've done, J.
B: I don't blame you. My walls of text are generally not entertaining.
C: In every tier, I don't know the statistics, but for the all pokemon allowed "Uber" tier: That's a good ****ing question... Probably either Kyogre, or Arceus. Kyogre because of the infinite rain weather it causes, which beefs up the power of water moves by half (Kyogre has a 150 power Water move; since it's a water type, that mean the power is doubled in total, so... yeah. Kyogre has an attack the power of Explosion, but without fainting itself), kills the power of fire moves by half so great pokemon hindered by fire attacks are even more lethal, and the rain it causes cancels out other weather the opponent uses (Sun, Sandstorm, or Hail), which ****s up any weather-based teams of course. Kyogre has incredible stats like every other banned pokemon too, so it's a very common pokemon. Plenty of my Uber tier teams rely on Kyogre, in fact.
Arceus because it can be ANY type it wants, has an absolutely incredible pool of moves to choose from (only Mew and Smeargle beat him; Mew who learns every single TM/HM ever, and Smeargle who learns EVERYTHING), and it's stat total is higher than every other pokemon. It can also do anything you want it; play the role to throw huge dents into the opponent's team with raw power, finish off a team after your other pokemon did the denting, defend against any dangerous threats with ease like the aforementioned Kyogre (and because it's type can be anything, Arceus can stop every single pokemon in the game in theory), or even support your team through various moves. No matter what kind of pokemon team you make, Arceus can fit in, in some way.
D: Snake. :lol: Of course, Snake has his weaknesses too, so it's more of a matter of who their second choice will be. I'm sure there'l be plenty of contemplation about Snake's matchups and the like for awhile.