The Christian religion

[White-Wolf]

How can knowing the future take away free will?

another long post. man


Im glad you asked. If the future can be determined, I can not do anything to change what will happen. This restiction is the very think that limits free will. Choice. If my choices have already been chosen, its not a choice. Can you turn left when a rollercoster turns right? The rollercoaster takes away our choice of wear we want to go, and thus our free will is taken away.

IF we can go into the future, then free will doesn’t exist.

IF god knows, that i will never profess that Jesus is my saver (he was a teacher of love and truth, but my soul is my own) and god does nothing, How can he be a god that loves everyone. If the choices i make have been predetermined as god knows all, its cruel of god not to take everyone to heaven is it not. That means that their are those who are predetermined to go to hell. End of story. Now if we do have free will, well (and i like that idea the best) god doesn’t know everything, and because he knows not everything, he is fallible and can be wrong. That means my beliefs don’t have to be his beleafs and i can be right at times while he can be wrong. while it may not happen often, it can happen. I also like to think that god is more like Gaia. Someone that wants to to experience the free will that he may not have. Why would he want a bunch of people that all think the same thing? what kind of interesting place is heaven then?

And what of the idea that jesus of today has become a ethical crutch for people. He we as humans, cannot make choices of good or bad, and only relay on someone who sacrificed themselves for what they believed in, we are already lost. Jesus can be used to justify anything. Who build over the lay lines and the nodes of earth? Christians did. If Christians were confident that they were right, they would not convince others of their beliefs. They would not destroy other religions. The idea is that if everyone believes what you believe, you cannot be wrong. At first it was to spred gods word. i know this, but now it is something different. it has changed. It is now way to justify actions and to show that your way is right by making everyone believe in the same things you believe. This only goes to show how unsure Christians are of their beliefs. Can candle of truth burn bright next to other candles, or are Christians unsure that thier candle is not the brightest. Their was real truth to the druids and pigeons, but you wiped them off the face of the earth. Why? was it out of fear that their ideas stemmed from something older? was it that Christianity was new and needed to establish itself by knocking off a few religions so their big Jewish brother would take notice?

Christians do bad things like everyone else, but using Jesus to absolve yourself really only prevents yourself from real atonment. its a crutch. I kill a man, and say "oh no Jesus save me" This is a shallow way to think about what you did. What if i know jesus will save me before i kill this person? once that idea gets into my head, its an immunity complex. I can do anything, and as long as I’m remorseful after the fact, its ok. well no its not ok, ethics is much more complicated then, Jesus saves. There is another complex, that is also interesting. If I rape alittle girl or boy lets say, people will hate me for my beleafes and what I do. Christians are taught that what they do will make people hate them. Its common. Well, that logic holds true but also is wrong. I can do bad things and people will hate me, and I can do noble good things, and people will hate me. Being hated cannot be a facter in what we do is good.

and now comes our final point. Lucifer. Now i know im going to get flamed for this, but i have thought about it alot. and thinking about the way things are rather then being told them always will lead to to a higher path. Jesus did it. well perhaps in following the path of Jesus, he meant we should all be individuals who question like philosophers, rather then follow like sheep, or lemmings.

Ok on to good old Lucifer.

I read someplace, in a book called the Song of Arthur, it had a tale by Taliesin the bard. awesome guy. In it, he proclaimed to find ancient scrolls written by monks, that state that the Beast and Lucifer are not the same being. we all know Lucifer was gods first and most beautiful angel. But I wonder, what could have happened? well angels had no free will, as i believe people do. If Lucifer could have done anything, it would have been to defy the word of god. To be human like us? is that a sin? well it is if your an angel. So in this tail, it reads that after cast out of heaven, Lucifer fell towards the earth. His landing shook the heavens. but it was their waiting. The beast (ah the same beast in revolutions, I wonder if Lucifer is supposed to be the dragon). Well anyway, The beast attacked him, God was not protecting him now, for he had fallen, but still he was not evil. Lucifer threw his sword (witch is described as having a green flame) through the beast. It hurt him, but the sword then changed, and turned into the cup of life, the holy grail. Lucifer without a sword was devoured in a way, buy the beast. Subverted, and controlled. Who wouldn’t want Gods finest creation.

Well you get the point I think. But it goes to show something. Even Lucifer, can be used as a romantic hero that has fallen. Even Lucifer’s story is not one of black or white, but of mistakes and follies. Lucifer is not the evil you think he is. I tend to think many people mix up the Beast and Lucifer. I don’t know if the devil is the beast or Lucifer though. But it just goes to show even Lucifer is demonized.

Finaly I feel I like I want to share one of my most favorite religions and I will tell you why.

Its Buddhism form Tibet. Why is this a amazing religion? I have never had someone show up at my door telling me I need to be Buddhist or I will not be reincarnated as a bug. In other words, no Buddhist has never tried to convince me that I need to be one. This is very impotent. It shows that they do not need many Buddhists to feel at comfortable with their beliefs. They don’t need others to agree with them that they are right. That’s faith. What is faith if everyone agrees? They also have never had a war in their name, unless it was protecting Tibet. They respect all living things. Buddhists don’t hold such a awful stigma like Christians. You can tell me true Christians are similar to Buddhists, and I will agree, but its hard to argue that the very name of Christianity hasn’t been trudge through mud, and blood. Though the crusades, and through the extermination of many beliefs. I really do think Jesus is being used as get out of free jail card, and its being abused horribly.

Jesus was amazing, but the majority of Christianity does understand why he did what he did. He didn’t die to take away peoples sin, he died like Socrates died, and the sacrifice of Socrates is just as powerful and meaning full as jesses was. To show his conviction in his beliefs. To show he was willing to die for others, and die for his belief. That’s truly noble. Jesus today though has nothing to do with family values and all that junk. Theirs just too much hypocrisy to go around.

I think if Jesus came today, or whatever you want to call it, More Christians would burn in hell Then non Christians. Trust me, I value my soul, I wouldn’t want to muck it up with all that Christian stuff. The afterlife is too valuable to throw away like that. This idea is even reaffirmed in revelations, I forget the passage but it talks about x number of people will go to hell from “clans” or something like that, anyone see a connection to clans and religious sects. Its going to be the people that do good for others, not because Jesus said so, but because it is good that are going to a better place.


On one last note, Did anyone read about that Christian game that plays like gta, but your in the army or a Christian army and you have to convert people to Christianity or beat them up or kill them? I was trying to find it but I couldn’t. I know it made a big stink when it was said to come out. I don’t think its out though. I think it was the leader of the CC the Christian Collation that was pushing the game. Is this the kind of guy who you want to represent Christians? If I find a link about the game, I will post it. Until then take care and may the elements be with you.

I will edit the mistakes in this post later. Ug its so long….

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

another long post. man


Im glad you asked. If the future can be determined, I can not do anything to change what will happen. This restiction is the very think that limits free will. Choice. If my choices have already been chosen, its not a choice. Can you turn left when a rollercoster turns right? The rollercoaster takes away our choice of wear we want to go, and thus our free will is taken away.

IF we can go into the future, then free will doesn’t exist.

IF god knows, that i will never profess that Jesus is my saver (he was a teacher of love and truth, but my soul is my own) and god does nothing, How can he be a god that loves everyone. If the choices i make have been predetermined as god knows all, its cruel of god not to take everyone to heaven is it not. That means that their are those who are predetermined to go to hell. End of story. Now if we do have free will, well (and i like that idea the best) god doesn’t know everything, and because he knows not everything, he is fallible and can be wrong. That means my beliefs don’t have to be his beleafs and i can be right at times while he can be wrong. while it may not happen often, it can happen. I also like to think that god is more like Gaia. Someone that wants to to experience the free will that he may not have. Why would he want a bunch of people that all think the same thing? what kind of interesting place is heaven then?

And what of the idea that jesus of today has become a ethical crutch for people. He we as humans, cannot make choices of good or bad, and only relay on someone who sacrificed themselves for what they believed in, we are already lost. Jesus can be used to justify anything. Who build over the lay lines and the nodes of earth? Christians did. If Christians were confident that they were right, they would not convince others of their beliefs. They would not destroy other religions. The idea is that if everyone believes what you believe, you cannot be wrong. At first it was to spred gods word. i know this, but now it is something different. it has changed. It is now way to justify actions and to show that your way is right by making everyone believe in the same things you believe. This only goes to show how unsure Christians are of their beliefs. Can candle of truth burn bright next to other candles, or are Christians unsure that thier candle is not the brightest. Their was real truth to the druids and pigeons, but you wiped them off the face of the earth. Why? was it out of fear that their ideas stemmed from something older? was it that Christianity was new and needed to establish itself by knocking off a few religions so their big Jewish brother would take notice?

Christians do bad things like everyone else, but using Jesus to absolve yourself really only prevents yourself from real atonment. its a crutch. I kill a man, and say "oh no Jesus save me" This is a shallow way to think about what you did. What if i know jesus will save me before i kill this person? once that idea gets into my head, its an immunity complex. I can do anything, and as long as I’m remorseful after the fact, its ok. well no its not ok, ethics is much more complicated then, Jesus saves. There is another complex, that is also interesting. If I rape alittle girl or boy lets say, people will hate me for my beleafes and what I do. Christians are taught that what they do will make people hate them. Its common. Well, that logic holds true but also is wrong. I can do bad things and people will hate me, and I can do noble good things, and people will hate me. Being hated cannot be a facter in what we do is good.

and now comes our final point. Lucifer. Now i know im going to get flamed for this, but i have thought about it alot. and thinking about the way things are rather then being told them always will lead to to a higher path. Jesus did it. well perhaps in following the path of Jesus, he meant we should all be individuals who question like philosophers, rather then follow like sheep, or lemmings.

Ok on to good old Lucifer.

I read someplace, in a book called the Song of Arthur, it had a tale by Taliesin the bard. awesome guy. In it, he proclaimed to find ancient scrolls written by monks, that state that the Beast and Lucifer are not the same being. we all know Lucifer was gods first and most beautiful angel. But I wonder, what could have happened? well angels had no free will, as i believe people do. If Lucifer could have done anything, it would have been to defy the word of god. To be human like us? is that a sin? well it is if your an angel. So in this tail, it reads that after cast out of heaven, Lucifer fell towards the earth. His landing shook the heavens. but it was their waiting. The beast (ah the same beast in revolutions, I wonder if Lucifer is supposed to be the dragon). Well anyway, The beast attacked him, God was not protecting him now, for he had fallen, but still he was not evil. Lucifer threw his sword (witch is described as having a green flame) through the beast. It hurt him, but the sword then changed, and turned into the cup of life, the holy grail. Lucifer without a sword was devoured in a way, buy the beast. Subverted, and controlled. Who wouldn’t want Gods finest creation.

Well you get the point I think. But it goes to show something. Even Lucifer, can be used as a romantic hero that has fallen. Even Lucifer’s story is not one of black or white, but of mistakes and follies. Lucifer is not the evil you think he is. I tend to think many people mix up the Beast and Lucifer. I don’t know if the devil is the beast or Lucifer though. But it just goes to show even Lucifer is demonized.

Finaly I feel I like I want to share one of my most favorite religions and I will tell you why.

Its Buddhism form Tibet. Why is this a amazing religion? I have never had someone show up at my door telling me I need to be Buddhist or I will not be reincarnated as a bug. In other words, no Buddhist has never tried to convince me that I need to be one. This is very impotent. It shows that they do not need many Buddhists to feel at comfortable with their beliefs. They don’t need others to agree with them that they are right. That’s faith. What is faith if everyone agrees? They also have never had a war in their name, unless it was protecting Tibet. They respect all living things. Buddhists don’t hold such a awful stigma like Christians. You can tell me true Christians are similar to Buddhists, and I will agree, but its hard to argue that the very name of Christianity hasn’t been trudge through mud, and blood. Though the crusades, and through the extermination of many beliefs. I really do think Jesus is being used as get out of free jail card, and its being abused horribly.

Jesus was amazing, but the majority of Christianity does understand why he did what he did. He didn’t die to take away peoples sin, he died like Socrates died, and the sacrifice of Socrates is just as powerful and meaning full as jesses was. To show his conviction in his beliefs. To show he was willing to die for others, and die for his belief. That’s truly noble. Jesus today though has nothing to do with family values and all that junk. Theirs just too much hypocrisy to go around.

I think if Jesus came today, or whatever you want to call it, More Christians would burn in hell Then non Christians. Trust me, I value my soul, I wouldn’t want to muck it up with all that Christian stuff. The afterlife is too valuable to throw away like that. This idea is even reaffirmed in revelations, I forget the passage but it talks about x number of people will go to hell from “clans” or something like that, anyone see a connection to clans and religious sects. Its going to be the people that do good for others, not because Jesus said so, but because it is good that are going to a better place.


On one last note, Did anyone read about that Christian game that plays like gta, but your in the army or a Christian army and you have to convert people to Christianity or beat them up or kill them? I was trying to find it but I couldn’t. I know it made a big stink when it was said to come out. I don’t think its out though. I think it was the leader of the CC the Christian Collation that was pushing the game. Is this the kind of guy who you want to represent Christians? If I find a link about the game, I will post it. Until then take care and may the elements be with you.

I will edit the mistakes in this post later. Ug its so long….

God gave us the gift of free will because he loves us and made us all unique. He loved us so much that he gave his son to die on the cross which he knew would happen. Jesus didnt have to be he did anyway. Just like when satan tried to tempt jesus 3 times in the desert. Jesus could have done it but he didnt. what your saying doesnt make since. God gave us free will and he showed us how to get to heaven through his son. Just like Jesus knew he would be betrayed by Judas but he let it happen because it was the only way to save us. Yes God knows who will go to heaven and hell but he told loud and clear how to get to heaven. Yeah hell is cruel but WE ALL HAVE SINNED and deserve to go there cuz those who commit evil have no place in heaven. God knows what will happen but he doesnt interfere. He can and he has warned us about future events such as the antichrist and armageddon but he gave us the will to choose our own fate. We try to convince others we are right because god commanded us to. If you dont wanna hear it fine, we are just supposed to give you the opportunity. The way you say christians make others believe in their religion is very inacurrate anyway i will finsih this post when i get back....

 

[White-Wolf]

So you agree then, that god is fallible because he doesn’t know everything. Glad we cleared that up. So lets assume that god says only Christians go to haven (witch he doesn’t) it doesn’t matter, because he is wrong at times, because he doesn’t know everything.

It doesn’t make sense to you because it’s a almost perfect argument in my favor. I dident come up with the arguement just to let you know, but it does ring true. You very much so want to believe that god is all three things at once, were I have shown that he cannot be these things at once because while we think god can be everything, this shows that they contradict eachother showing that god can never be complete as we know him. It shows through logic, god cannot exist in the way we think he must. His existence is a contradiction.

He cannot know everything in order for us to love him, and he cannot deny us from heaven if we do not have free will because it’s the choice of believing him most importent. So he cannot know our choice ahead of time in order for us to have a choice. Philosophy I love you.

If you want to say we have free will, god doesn’t know everything. If god knows everything, we do not have free will.

 

[The_Mitch]

at first, i thought the same thing about free will, white wolf. however my thery is our life is kinda like a Choose-your-adventure book. we have MANY diffrent endings and our actions are what choose the ending (i.e. whether we go to heaven or hell). God knows where each path will take us but it is up to us and our free will to choose the correct path

 

[White-Wolf]

Yeah, I see it similar to you, but that means god doesn’t know everything and is thus fallible because he doesn’t know what path we will take.


If you want my true take I shale tell you.

We are but a leaf that flows down the stream of time. It has many branches. Some branches have stronger currents, while others have weak currents. Our will is the wind that acts on the leaf to choose what path to take. Some paths on the stream pull harder then others. For example, its hard for a poor person to be rich. But with enough will or spirit if you will... hahah it can happen, it’s just not likely.

Some people allow themselves to float aimlessly and others try their hardest to achieve a desired path

I think that being a good person is more important then being a good Christian. I think that history has spoken, and the jig is up in that respect. I think there are too many people like Ann cutler, and not enough people like you Mitch. I think that i have herd the same Christian lines over and over that it fails to mean anything anymore, because it’s a broken record rather then recent recording of someone’s beliefs. I think that your religion but a rug that has been pulled from under you by the corrupt and hateful, and the neocons.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

Yeah, I see it similar to you, but that means god doesn’t know everything and is thus fallible because he doesn’t know what path we will take.


If you want my true take I shale tell you.

We are but a leaf that flows down the stream of time. It has many branches. Some branches have stronger currents, while others have weak currents. Our will is the wind that acts on the leaf to choose what path to take. Some paths on the stream pull harder then others. For example, its hard for a poor person to be rich. But with enough will or spirit if you will... hahah it can happen, it’s just not likely.

Some people allow themselves to float aimlessly and others try their hardest to achieve a desired path

I think that being a good person is more important then being a good Christian. I think that history has spoken, and the jig is up in that respect. I think there are too many people like Ann cutler, and not enough people like you Mitch. I think that i have herd the same Christian lines over and over that it fails to mean anything anymore, because it’s a broken record rather then recent recording of someone’s beliefs. I think that your religion but a rug that has been pulled from under you by the corrupt and hateful, and the neocons.

god knows it, read revelations. i dont see how you keep thinking its impossible not to know the future. Whether you believe god or not, your little theory doesnt add up.

 

[Close]

those groups of christians are the ones that give TRUE christians a bad name. him. a true christian cares about others and want to spread the word but if someone doesnt seem interested, they will stop. when you see christians at gay parades with signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS" or "WHEN A FAG DIES, GOD LAUGHS" please note that they are just as bad as those people the the parade because they are judging others and God says it is a sin to judge others and like i said before, all sin is the same in gods eyes. personaly, i want to go see the Da Vinchi Code. any true christian would. my teacher saw it and it helped him become a better christian for it. about the madonna thing, that does offend me but thats not what she belives in so i just say leave her alone

We are rallieing because its blasphemy, what is a TRUE Christian ? Is there a FAKE Christian ? And I am Catholic....

Originally Posted by NateTheGreat
[OFF-TOPIC]
Sounds as though doing "evil" will cause God or whomever to "execute wrath" upon you. So if somebody kills someone, in turn God will kill the killer or send him to hell? So then, how is God any better than the killer?

[/OFF-TOPIC]

Sorry , I did not read alot of the comments but God can kill anyone. Why ? Where did your soul come from ? God. He has all the right to take it way from you. And God won't send him to Hell, if he repents.

 

[White-Wolf]

god knows it, read revelations. i dont see how you keep thinking its impossible not to know the future. Whether you believe god or not, your little theory doesnt add up.

Oh it does add up. and it not little. Its pretty earth shattering. God cant know everything if we have free will. They are opposites and cannot exist together. Its like trying to keep a room in darkness with the light on. Cant happen. If god knows what’s going to happen, we don’t have free will. Its pretty simple and doesn’t require any faith to understand. But it goes against yours so your willing to overlook it. Your right though, it doest add up to what you believe, but it requires you to change the very concept of god. You haven’t presented anything that says god Can exist and know everything and us having free will in tern. in fact you have avoid that by saying it doesn’t add up... how? because something in the bible says differently? The bible doesn’t say how god knows all and how we can have free will. It just assumes this is the case, but think about it... how can that be the case. the bible contradicts its self on many occasions but we over look that so the world can keep turning.

Questioning ones faith is the vary basis of faith. If you run from the hard issues you will never know how strong your faith really is. By continually thinking and asking questions (like Jesus did) we can understand more about the things we believe and why. With out these answers, we are not faithful, but only followers.

Sorry , I did not read alot of the comments but God can kill anyone. Why ? Where did your soul come from ? God. He has all the right to take it way from you. And God won't send him to Hell, if he repents.

This assumes that god created us? If that were wrong would your idea hold truth? would it hold truth if you and your mate had a kid. Could you kill them and have control over their soul? god has said that we are his children has not? so what gives him the right even assuming he created us? None he doesn’t have the right, any more then you have the right to killing your kid.

Christianity as an amazing solution to those who disagree though. I can say anything that may be true that disagrees with the proverbial you, and you can say that i speak for the morning star, so i don’t except much. Their are many safeguards set in place so faith prevails. The key is to shutting down these defenses and really taking a look at what you believe. To see with eyes unclouded.

That fact is, i can not win this argument, because you argue that god says its this way or that. You can argue from an infallible position, so questioning what I say or what you say will never happen. But think, did god say it, or man. I have shown god to be fallible and wrong remember.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

no it doesnt. he could simpily know but not interfere. like i said, read revelations. God showed a human the future so he could write the book of revelations. Its very possible to have free will while God knows the future. HE MAY KNOW WHAT WE WILL DO BUT HE DOESNT HAVE TO INTERFERE. example: i went into the future and i see that one of my friends crashes on his bike the next day trying to do a jump. Well i decide not to tell him and he does it anyway and crashes. he made that choice to jump and i just watched. i could have enterfeared but i didnt. Cases where he did interfere is that example with judas betrayal where he knew it was going to happen. Thats the way i see and that is the proof in the bible. i will respect your opinion but i just doesnt add up to me, you've come to the wrong conclusion about me avoiding a question becuase it really doesnt add up. oh and give me an example where the bible contradicts itself although in case you where not aware about comparing the new testiment and old testiment because the new does contridict some parts of the old because of jesus. God does exist and he let me know it when i accepted jesus as my lord and savior and it is amazing. No doubt in my mind he exists. And if your not a man of faith, science has even proven god exists. How was everything around us created. Even if you say the big bang theory, what caused that and what created the components that caused it? How did it all start? Like i said god has let me know he is real and i wanna be on his side when he dies. It doesnt sound to smart when you say that the creator of everything that exists does not have the right to do something either.......who are you to tell him that.

 

[Ronan]

People lets try not to state facts about religion, as you know religion is not built upon facts, therefore totally disproving a faith is impossible.

Thats it. End of

 

[White-Wolf]

no it doesnt. he could simpily know but not interfere. like i said, read revelations. God showed a human the future so he could write the book of revelations. Its very possible to have free will while God knows the future. HE MAY KNOW WHAT WE WILL DO BUT HE DOESNT HAVE TO INTERFERE. example: i went into the future and i see that one of my friends crashes on his bike the next day trying to do a jump. Well i decide not to tell him and he does it anyway and crashes. he made that choice to jump and i just watched. i could have enterfeared but i didnt. Cases where he did interfere is that example with judas betrayal where he knew it was going to happen. Thats the way i see and that is the proof in the bible. i will respect your opinion but i just doesnt add up to me, you've come to the wrong conclusion about me avoiding a question becuase it really doesnt add up. oh and give me an example where the bible contradicts itself although in case you where not aware about comparing the new testiment and old testiment because the new does contridict some parts of the old because of jesus. God does exist and he let me know it when i accepted jesus as my lord and savior and it is amazing. No doubt in my mind he exists. And if your not a man of faith, science has even proven god exists. How was everything around us created. Even if you say the big bang theory, what caused that and what created the components that caused it? How did it all start? Like i said god has let me know he is real and i wanna be on his side when he dies. It doesnt sound to smart when you say that the creator of everything that exists does not have the right to do something either.......who are you to tell him that.

well, just because you knew your friend was going to hurt himself, but you really didn’t know. You guessed, well educated guessing i should say. But he could have ramped and made it, you don’t know 100%. Nothing is for sure when dealing with people. So lets assume you did know for sure that he would hurt him self... you let him crash and hurt himself. does that sound like a friend? Not saying you weren’t, because you didn’t know 100 that he would get hurt, just that its was the most likely thing to happen.

You asked me to show the bible contradicts itself.

1
How about gays, yes i said it, but its one of the biggest ones. We are supposed to all sin right, that’s what the bible says is it not? so why do so many Christians hate or disapprove of gays when by existing we are equal sinners? If I have to repent for being me, I’m going to rape little kids, kick puppies, and break the fingers off of old people. Why? because if existing is a sin then bring it on!!! + no matter what I do I can get a get out of hell free card.

2
Christians are supposed to accept others right?, but how can you accept someone and hope for them to change at the same time? maybe cristians dont knwo what acceptance is?

Those are two major contradictions I say. When my girlfriend gets home, she can list more exact passages that are contradictions, but the ones I have listed are major ethical or moral contradictions that cannot be overlooked.

I'm not trying to prove god doesn’t exist; just that he is not what we think. If you say he has created the universe, what have i said above that contradicts this? Well nothing so far. I haven’t even touched on the issue. Just because i think Christians have profaned the actions and the name of Jesus, doesn’t mean I have a fundamental difference in view (although on the serfice it might seem like it). I don’t think he wanted people to worship him. He wanted people to follow in his foot steps. Religion I think, clouds peoples minds and hearts, and the very thing he fought to over come, has been created again. He fought an establishment only to have an establishment equally as bad created after him. Its kind of sad. I bet he is crying right now.

If you were not trying to avoid my questions earlier I apologies.


I’m going to shorten up my arguments from now on as we are about to hit the wall. This wall is when both parties say everything that they could have said to the other that would have made a difference. I don’t think you can sway my views, because to be honest, what you say doesn’t seem very original. I have herd it over and over, and all pretty similar. So I don’t think you have any argument that could change my mind, I hope you don’t take that the wrong way. I’m going to let you believe what you want now, as that’s the greatest thing we people posses, the freedom to think and believe what we want. I hope that we have at least touch on some common ground.

 

[xxwiiwiifanxx]

hey easy nate. no i havent died last time i checked and yeah jesus was perfectly clear how you end up in heaven or hell. i can pull up bible verses for you if you like. but god gave us the gift of free will so everything is your decision my friend. I'll keep you in my prayers.

AMEN!!!u keep on tellin these folks the way christians do!!!represent

 

[xxwiiwiifanxx]

Meh gods are not real
If so where are they the worlds pritty fooked up at the moment

do u know y the world is messed up????--well it says y in the bible!!!!

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

well, just because you knew your friend was going to hurt himself, but you really didn’t know. You guessed, well educated guessing i should say. But he could have ramped and made it, you don’t know 100%. Nothing is for sure when dealing with people. So lets assume you did know for sure that he would hurt him self... you let him crash and hurt himself. does that sound like a friend? Not saying you weren’t, because you didn’t know 100 that he would get hurt, just that its was the most likely thing to happen.

You asked me to show the bible contradicts itself.

1
How about gays, yes i said it, but its one of the biggest ones. We are supposed to all sin right, that’s what the bible says is it not? so why do so many Christians hate or disapprove of gays when by existing we are equal sinners? If I have to repent for being me, I’m going to rape little kids, kick puppies, and break the fingers off of old people. Why? because if existing is a sin then bring it on!!! + no matter what I do I can get a get out of hell free card.

2
Christians are supposed to accept others right?, but how can you accept someone and hope for them to change at the same time? maybe cristians dont knwo what acceptance is?

Those are two major contradictions I say. When my girlfriend gets home, she can list more exact passages that are contradictions, but the ones I have listed are major ethical or moral contradictions that cannot be overlooked.

I'm not trying to prove god doesn’t exist; just that he is not what we think. If you say he has created the universe, what have i said above that contradicts this? Well nothing so far. I haven’t even touched on the issue. Just because i think Christians have profaned the actions and the name of Jesus, doesn’t mean I have a fundamental difference in view (although on the serfice it might seem like it). I don’t think he wanted people to worship him. He wanted people to follow in his foot steps. Religion I think, clouds peoples minds and hearts, and the very thing he fought to over come, has been created again. He fought an establishment only to have an establishment equally as bad created after him. Its kind of sad. I bet he is crying right now.

If you were not trying to avoid my questions earlier I apologies.


I’m going to shorten up my arguments from now on as we are about to hit the wall. This wall is when both parties say everything that they could have said to the other that would have made a difference. I don’t think you can sway my views, because to be honest, what you say doesn’t seem very original. I have herd it over and over, and all pretty similar. So I don’t think you have any argument that could change my mind, I hope you don’t take that the wrong way. I’m going to let you believe what you want now, as that’s the greatest thing we people posses, the freedom to think and believe what we want. I hope that we have at least touch on some common ground.

whoa whoa whoa. how could i know and dont know. let me make this easier to understand for you...i was in the FUTURE and saw everything that leads up to that event. I dont interfere and it happens hence he had the free will to decide to go up the ramp but he didnt. i knew it was going to happen. I'm going to work with you through this ok.:smilewinkgrin: THEREFORE IT IS POSSIBLE TO KNOW THE FUTURE AND NOT INTERFERE WITH FREE WILL. YOU JUST KNOW WHATS COMING. PROVEN IN BIBLE!

1. ok thats not fair comparing all christians that way. personally homosexuallity is wrong and if someone asked me to support it i would refuse. why on earth would i support a sin. that goes for other sins too. but if people are can thats their business and they will pay for that sin. all i would say is taht its wrong and explain why and that would be the end of it. thats silly to support sin and yes all sin is equal. i just dont support it. I dont do any acts of hatred to them. understand? Yes Jesus is a get out of jail free card but once your truely saved by him you get a strong sense of right and wrong. Jesus paid the price for all our sins.

2.yes we accept others and we do it all the time. and we love to share the good word but by all means if you dont want to hear it we wont bother you and just hang out with each other and talk about everythings, play paintball, whatever. I dont know what so called christians you've been hanging around but obviously are giving us a bad name. So nothing you really said truly contradicts the bible. Stupid peoples actions does not contradict the bible.
I'll pray for you. Like i said before i dont want to force my beliefs on you, just letting you know friend. Believe what you want, i'm just stating what i KNOW is fact. After all this thread is titled christianity after all.

 

[I_Dont_Know859]

AMEN!!!u keep on tellin these folks the way christians do!!!represent

thanks, i was beginning to think i was the only christian on this forum lol