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WiiMote Flick Motion Bad for Wii Games?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Wii Chat' started by austinAlan, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. austinAlan

    austinAlan WiiChat Member

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    The first time most people play tennis on the wii they use a full motion to "swing the racket." It doesn't take long to learn that no matter how hard you swing the wiimote using the full swing they can never hit it faster than my little flick.

    Throwing the bullet football in madden or the fastest pitch in the Bigs is only possible with the wiimote flick.

    Doesn't it seem that the more we all get used to the wiimote the more it's really just like a two part typical console remote?

    It's still more fun for me having the accelerometers and the pointer is terrific. I just think that the games need to use more subtly than they currently are using.
    Either that or the first gen accelerometer controls themselves aren't that sophisticated yet.


    I guess I should read this first http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/285
     
    #1 austinAlan, Oct 10, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2007
  2. WiiWofford

    WiiWofford WiiChat Member

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    Can you help me with my points issue??
     
  3. D S

    D S Virus Creat0rgz

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    I agree with you. No matter how hard you use the wiimote to throw the boweling ball, it never goes any faster, or better.

    Same with RE4, with the knife, the harder you swing the more damage it should do(to a maximem damadge)
     
  4. CantGetAWii

    CantGetAWii WiiChat Member

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    People are still not understanding this to this day.
    Sure its fun swinging like a crazy axe murderer but, if you do swing too hard you will kill someone no doubt.
     
  5. MoorGames

    MoorGames We Need MoorGames

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    Same thing goes with the Golf on sports. If you hold the wiimote straight down in front of you, and flick it up, just as good as a full swing
     
  6. jwm2

    jwm2 WiiChat Member

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    Hrmm i had no idea a flick was just as good, might have to give that a try ;)
     
  7. romj

    romj WiiChat Member

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    Interesting. I DO notice that speed in moving the wiimote DOES effect how fast the bowling ball goes. I also notic that small twistings of you wrist or hand will affect its direction or curve also.
     
  8. romj

    romj WiiChat Member

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    What you are noticing is poor implementation of the motion sensoring by games developers! I don't think many developers really take the wii seriously enough to develope something that really showcases the possibilites of the motion controls. I see little glimpses here and there, but on the whole, the games that have been made for the wii suck in terms of controls and other things. I mean, what can you really expect from porting a game from a whole different console with half***ed tacked on controls?

    Residen't evil may have been the exception, but they need to make games spacifacly designed from the ground up for the wii, with controls designed to take full advantage of it, or it will just look like a gimmic.
     
  9. austinAlan

    austinAlan WiiChat Member

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    I kept thinking that too but I'm starting to wonder. It would be interesting to see all the wiimote motions graphed in real time. I imagine that the tracking points would be very ragged.
     
  10. KrisKhaos

    KrisKhaos Retro Gamer

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    Okay, bare with me here. I'm really tired but this is a topic of major interest to me.

    First off, I've been toying with the Wii Remote on my computer for some time now, and can tell you that they are amazing. Not by the fact that they offer a new innovative method of game play, but knowing exactly how sensitive that they are.

    You may have noticed it when you rotate the Wii Remote and seen how detailed that it rotates the finger pointer on the screen, but that is only the beginning. It is also capable of detecting every degree of motion at this level of detail except when the Wii Remote is on a table and "spun". Spin it quickly it will pick it up however slowly it has not means of detection on it's direction, other than that it's much more capable than what is currently being implemented.

    Due to the complexity of being able to decipher the motion data into usable results has been a bit mind boggling (but mostly time consuming) for some of our fine developers. Nintendo predicted this and helped push AiLive's LiveMove (see video), which is a development SDK designed to simplify motion based game development by allowing motion controls to be fitting into games with almost no programming. While this SDK makes game design simple for the Wii Remote, it also numbs it down to some degree, and render's developers lazy and unable and unwilling to invest the time to dissect the controls to truly exploit it's potential.

    Note: Games like Wii Sports don't seem to use AiLive's LiveMove however almost all other 3rd party games I've seen seem to. The problem with Wii Sports and able to "flick" play is the simple fact it uses the very basics of the controls, just as the sports games use just the very basics of there game elements.
    [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ffvSMWD2Mk[/MEDIA]

    It doesn't NEED to be that complicated. You can take advantage of the Wii Remote without having to completely map the motion, and the same results can be achieved using simple data compilation. I've been able to gather simplistic direction, momentum/power, and even plans to calculate more accurate speed data from the Wii Remote, in hopes of developing a possible improved control Library to be used once WiiWare becomes more public and available to Indie/Hobbyist developers like myself.

    Conclusion
    So yes, you can blame pre-mature control libraries being used currently in games. I don't expect this to remain this way. As far as my own developmental work, most everything is still on the design level aside from bits of code to see what is possible and what isn't. The Wii Remote is amazing, but it's not perfect, however a few of the possible complications may be filtered out as you might of read, development for the Wii Remote is tricky but fully capable. :)

    - Goodnight...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Renz

    Renz Top 5 in MOH: H2

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    good video though a bit nerdy for me. The wiiflick is good for me because i laugh at people who try and imitate a real baseball swing and fail or do a full tennis swing and lob it up in the air and they say, wtf, thats not what i meant to do.
     
  12. Eagles

    Eagles WiiChat Member

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    Great post KrisKhaos, that was very informative!
     
  13. chikupi

    chikupi quack

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    true flicking is equal or even better then swinging like a mad man. yet ever time i play wii tennis i can't help but get into the game and swing with it and change from my forhand to my backhand swings. i don't think they made it so u have to go crazy, like a mad man, but to do what u want, if want to flick then go ahead but if u want to throw out ur arm after losing to the pro miis in tennis or stricking them out go for it, it is just how u play and it gets u more into the game.
     
  14. llol_slim

    llol_slim WiiChat Member

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    wel, i enjoyed that video, would like to write some stuff like that for the people I work with (adults with learning disabilities).. no chance for me not that clever..

    Anyway, i just wanted to say that I actually enjoy playing with the full swing .. take for example wii sports tennis, i like "stepping" into the shot, and using different spins.

    Also having bought fifa 08 yesterday (great game) I noticed that it recoginises diffferent powered swings/flicks and is much more sensitive than say wii sports bowling.
     
  15. vi3tmix

    vi3tmix WiiChat Member

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    Great post, KrisKhaos. What exactly were you looking up when you came across that video?

    OP: You want a good example of where a flick is better than a full swing? Try Rayman Raving Rabbids minigame titled "Bunnies Are Oversensitive," where you take a hammer to the bunny's head and hit him repeatedly. Simplest way to get a high score is to...well...somehow force a seizure in your hand with nothing but movements shaking the nunchuck no more than a cm back and forth.

    But as pointed out by KrisKhaos, I too, believe, it's just a fault of the developers not utilizing full potential rather than the hardware just limited to such simplicity.
     
  16. samXcor3

    samXcor3 the best kid!

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    True, but this comes down to somewhat suspending your disbelief. Sure flicking the wiimote will yield the same result, but so will swinging it like an actual golf club. So which would you prefer, to have more fun? Also, if you get into actually having to swing it precisely, and hitting it exactly the right force and stuff, you get into a difficulty issue. Not a lot of people want to actually be good at a sport in order to play it on a console. I do think what youre saying could be taken into account if a developer used different difficulty settings though.

    But, the moral of the story is you get what you give. You wanna have fun, swing like a club. You wanna be boring, complain about a flicking motion.
     
  17. samXcor3

    samXcor3 the best kid!

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    Yeah a game like FIFA should do something liek this, i', glad they did. Wii Sports is really meant to be accessible to absolutely anyone, so I'm sure that's why the whole flicking issue is even there.
     
  18. llol_slim

    llol_slim WiiChat Member

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    yup, agreed, and as you improve with wii sports it becomes more accessible .. tennis and bowling in particular for me, the spins you can apply in both games makes it much more interesting and accessible to different skill levels.

    Using the "proper" real life actions is, in my eyes, what makes the wii the wii.
    Got to love it.
     
  19. austinAlan

    austinAlan WiiChat Member

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    That's great. This is exactly what I was looking for: someone who was getting down to the details.

    I viewed the SDK video training that you link and that video alone was what first worried me about the wiimote. That's what you would use to "tack on" wii controls to a port or just some quick release junk. I'm sure it can be used competently as well.

    Question: Is the wiimote date TOO complex to use during a game with complex rendering and other processes like physics and AI? Is there going to be a new push to dedicated (or more sophisticated) input processing?
     
  20. KrisKhaos

    KrisKhaos Retro Gamer

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    [​IMG]

    No, I don't think it is too complex, just it's too new and libraries are just pre-mature. A good example would be early mice, while the device itself hasn't changed much however it's controlling software has. Early mice was clunky and buggy, however they quickly evolved into a more practical and seamless peripheral. As Wii-Remote libraries evolve and improve, they will take less and less processor and memory to make use of them - as what happened with mice. :)

    So think of the Wii Remote's motion accelerometers much like a mouse, except there are X, Y, and Z coordinates verses X and Y mouse mickeys. When the mouse is moved the data is put against the coordinates of the pointer, therefore the position is then adjusted based on the input given from the mouse. The Wii Remote data, however is much more complicated as it is not just updating a cursor position but attempting to mimic/detect specific motion. (Results vary depending on the game requirement.)

    The Wii-Remote can also pull pitch, roll, and yaw however the yaw data is very clunky as I stated earlier. The current developmental problem seems to stem on how to convert this simple positioning data into a more usable form, as AiLive's LiveMove for example seems to plot motion then buffers it. Then when the motion is put against that buffer searching for that plotted pattern again. If it finds it, it returns that data. It doesn't appear to have a very wide array of tolerance calculation due to noticing that in the demo the demonstrator imputs the same motion several times in hopes of capturing variance. This tells me instead of using math to detect motion variation, they are just buffering it eating up more precious memory. Again clunky. To think this SDK is $2,500 by itself!

    Just keep in mind it's still a learning process for all of us. I suggest searching it out and digging up more "nerd specs" if you are wanting more detail than I am giving. Site's like WiiLi.org are good nerd resources, and for you programmers there is tons of libraries being developed for the Wii Remote on the PC. I've been kinda dragging my feet on this simply because of lack of Wii SDK info and not looking to just use the Wii Remote as another PC toy. :)

    E-mail reply from Nintendo's development site...
    So I sit and wait... :)
     

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