ZELDA THREAD!!

[DBloke]

I just didnt like the whole Groundhog day x 3 thing

 

[Mr. MR]

Nobody plays Zelda for the lore. It's pretty craptastic. Ocarina at least bothered to expand on the little bit of lore there was. MM didn't care for it at all. Zelda's puzzles, dungeons, and world are its core.

MM had a different kind of lore. Still not sure if it is the same universe. Anyway what really keeps the fans to the series is the lore. Each game increases our knowledge and SS was definitely no exception. It's also the symbols in the lore that people understand. It's not just a puzzle dungeon game, it's a Legend. The lore is not only a part of LoZ's core, it's its identity. Lore connects the fans together, and gives them almost a symbolic language to communicate with.

Best way to explain it is by expanding your horizons. For every game like Xenogears, there's a plethora of CoD's and Maddens, but the struggle is completely worth it.

I have seen lots of stuff and a lot of story telling methods and video games is a hard place to find a good storytelling. I know as a lover of stories, there is good and there is a whole lot of crappy.

Some examples of cool storytelling techniques I have seen in video games:

Assassin's Creed's Animus - Even though they went and destroyed the story, the storytelling method of looking back through your ancestors eyes to fit together things in the present is very brilliant.

Legend of Zelda's Time Shenanigans - The non-linearness of it is very interesting and makes an otherwise 'save the princess' story into a Legend.

Fire Emblem's Character Supports - It surprisingly adds a lot of emotional value in the game.

Portal in General - Seemingly innocent experimentation slowly turns suspicious and hints at a hidden sinister plot through the many subtle hints thrown at you, especially through the Rattman Caves.

I will post more on this later. I have been meaning to put all this storytelling stuff I have found in video games together in a list. I might as well make this a thread.

The 3 day cycle is great, storytelling is not.

Can you see the psychology in MM? The sorrow, the idea of fate and destiny. It's like I am reading the Children of Húrin again with a non-linear time scale and more people.

 

[Splash_King]

The beauty of MM is that the side quests are apart of the whole storyline.

The side quests aren't a mere part, they are the story. Their importance to MM as a game is heavily belayed by the fact that it's all optional. Some bear more significance than others, and these significant side quests could've easily been integrated into the required narrative.

MM is overrated

no

MM is shite

no

OoT is overrated

fix'd

 

[Mr. MR]

[video=youtube;HsZDa2nBVgY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsZDa2nBVgY[/video]
Trailer for WWHD Hero Mode

 

[Splash_King]

Assumin' there's nothin' like Heart Medals in WW, that'l actually make for some difficulty. I hope Hero Mode becomes a normal thing for Zelda.

 

[WiiAssasin]

MM had a different kind of lore. Still not sure if it is the same universe. Anyway what really keeps the fans to the series is the lore. Each game increases our knowledge and SS was definitely no exception. It's also the symbols in the lore that people understand. It's not just a puzzle dungeon game, it's a Legend. The lore is not only a part of LoZ's core, it's its identity. Lore connects the fans together, and gives them almost a symbolic language to communicate with.

If lore is what keeps the fans, everyone would've left Zelda as soon as the timeline became canon. Thankfully, that is nowhere near the case.

I have seen lots of stuff and a lot of story telling methods and video games is a hard place to find a good storytelling. I know as a lover of stories, there is good and there is a whole lot of crappy.

On the contrary, video games are perfect for good stories. Inserting the player into the creator's works is something other forms of media lack.

Assassin's Creed's Animus - Even though they went and destroyed the story, the storytelling method of looking back through your ancestors eyes to fit together things in the present is very brilliant.

The Animus is what makes everyone cringe since Desmond has to periodically leave it. I'm sure most AC players would simply like to play as an Assassin without going to his time.

Legend of Zelda's Time Shenanigans - The non-linearness of it is very interesting and makes an otherwise 'save the princess' story into a Legend.

Timeline.

I'll just let that sink in.

Portal in General - Seemingly innocent experimentation slowly turns suspicious and hints at a hidden sinister plot through the many subtle hints thrown at you, especially through the Rattman Caves.

That's Valve games in general. Specifically, Half Life considering it seems to be in the same universe and possess similar storytelling devices (lack of cutscenes, etc). And Half Life also does it better.

Can you see the psychology in MM? The sorrow, the idea of fate and destiny. It's like I am reading the Children of Húrin again with a non-linear time scale and more people.

You can see whatever you like, but it doesn't mean it's there. You can also see Paradise Lost in Link To The Past if you squint hard enough, but it ain't there. It's simple overanalysis.

 

[Mr. MR]

On the contrary, video games are perfect for good stories. Inserting the player into the creator's works is something other forms of media lack.

That it may be but producers discourage developers from making a game based solely on the story. A good story does not make a game sell well. Video games has not reached the reputation of good storytelling medium that books, movies, and shows already have. 6 Days in Fallujah is a testament to that.

The Animus is what makes everyone cringe since Desmond has to periodically leave it. I'm sure most AC players would simply like to play as an Assassin without going to his time.

Then those people are more focused on gameplay and not the story. Truth be told most video gamers don't really care about stories telling but more on gameplay and because of this, developers have to find new ways of introducing the story.

If AC was a book or a movie, the storytelling technique would be more appreciated.

 

[WiiAssasin]

That it may be but producers discourage developers from making a game based solely on the story. A good story does not make a game sell well. Video games has not reached the reputation of good storytelling medium that books, movies, and shows already have.

That applies to everything ever. Movies and books don't need a good story to sell well. Therefore irrelevant.

6 Days in Fallujah is a testament to that.

This does it better.


Considering the earliest

If AC was a book or a movie, the storytelling technique would be more appreciated.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Mr. MR]

That applies to everything ever. Movies and books don't need a good story to sell well. Therefore irrelevant.

However it definitely separates the masterpieces from the crap. The ones that stand the test of time are the ones with good storytelling.

This does it better.
Considering the earliest

You don't know much about 6DIF.
It existed long before Spec Ops: The Line. 6DIF caused huge controversy. If it was a documentary or a movie or a book it would have been perfectly acceptable to produce. But because it's a video game, it was shot down in disgust. It was only trying to convey the experience and the horrors of a real battle. Because of this, it may never see the light of day.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

What I am trying to show you is video games have no respect as a story telling medium.

 

[WiiAssasin]

However it definitely separates the masterpieces from the crap. The ones that stand the test of time are the ones with good storytelling.

In other words, it follows the same patters as all other forms of media. Big guys want money, small works become classics.

You don't know much about 6DIF.
It existed long before Spec Ops: The Line. 6DIF caused huge controversy. If it was a documentary or a movie or a book it would have been perfectly acceptable to produce. But because it's a video game, it was shot down in disgust. It was only trying to convey the experience and the horrors of a real battle. Because of this, it may never see the light of day.

Both had their first gameplay shown in 2009. I think it's certainly is plausible that both are around the same timeframe. The key difference is that The Line could never exist as anything other than a video game in order to work. And it actually was released.

What I am trying to show you is video games have no respect as a story telling medium.

Again, it's like everything ever:

However it definitely separates the masterpieces from the crap. The ones that stand the test of time are the ones with good storytelling.

They don't respect the bad ones. Bad games are more plentiful, which make 'em representative of the medium.

 

[Mr. MR]

In other words, it follows the same patters as all other forms of media. Big guys want money, small works become classics.

Although some of the Big Guys were once the small guys and still know how to tell a good story. A good movie stands the test of time. And for that to happen it needs to have good story telling. Not the same with video games where the games that stand the test of time are based more on gameplay

Both had their first gameplay shown in 2009. I think it's certainly is plausible that both are around the same timeframe. The key difference is that The Line could never exist as anything other than a video game in order to work. And it actually was released.

6DIF was finished in 2010 from what I have heard. However no producer would produce it due to the controversy. SO:TL is a fictious story that portrays war as war. 6DIF is a real story that portrays war as war. If 6DIF was a movie or a documentary it would be out now with minimum controversy.

Again, it's like everything ever

No, it's not about what it's called. A game. Even though we know not all "video games" are games the rest of the world does not see it that way. A book like Kite Runner is not an enjoyable book made for entertainment, but it is a good book that portrays emotion very well. Not all movies are entertaining but some of them are non the less a good movie. Video Games does not have that kind of respect.

 

[WiiAssasin]

Although some of the Big Guys were once the small guys and still know how to tell a good story. A good movie stands the test of time. And for that to happen it needs to have good story telling. Not the same with video games where the games that stand the test of time are based more on gameplay

Not at all. OoT, Morrowind, FF7, and many more have aged. This aging is mainly in the gameplay department. They're still classics because they achieved in creating an immersive world, complete with good narrative. People will play Xenogears for the story, not the gameplay.

6DIF was finished in 2010 from what I have heard. However no producer would produce it due to the controversy. SO:TL is a fictious story that portrays war as war. 6DIF is a real story that portrays war as war. If 6DIF was a movie or a documentary it would be out now with minimum controversy.

Well, The Line does touch that, but it has bigger focuses in mind.

No, it's not about what it's called. A game. Even though we know not all "video games" are games the rest of the world does not see it that way. A book like Kite Runner is not an enjoyable book made for entertainment, but it is a good book that portrays emotion very well. Not all movies are entertaining but some of them are non the less a good movie. Video Games does not have that kind of respect.

A game like The Line isn't made for entertainment, but it is a good video game that portrays emotion very well. Not all video games are entertaining but some of them are nonetheless a good video game. See?

The same view you hold of the world's view on video games exists for everything else ever. The good, the bad, and the ugly, so to speak.

 

[Mr. MR]

Not at all. OoT, Morrowind, FF7, and many more have aged. This aging is mainly in the gameplay department. They're still classics because they achieved in creating an immersive world, complete with good narrative. People will play Xenogears for the story, not the gameplay.

I don't really see how that counters my point.
I haven't played Xenogears but I doubt it can stand next to master literary works and critically acclaimed movies.

NA game like The Line isn't made for entertainment, but it is a good video game that portrays emotion very well. Not all video games are entertaining but some of them are nonetheless a good video game. See?

The same view you hold of the world's view on video games exists for everything else ever. The good, the bad, and the ugly, so to speak.

There are video games that aren't made for entertainment but they are very few and don't sell well. Video games like that are very restricted in the stories it can tell and in the way they can tell a story. It's sad video games are not respected enough as a storytelling medium. Part of the blame is the consumer. Most gamers don't read that many books and most don't even care about stories and storytelling methods. Good video games aren't dependent on that. As you pointed out, it's more focused on gameplay, graphics, physics engines, world building, interactiveness, and immersion. Video game storytelling is a rare and unappreciated art.

 

[WiiAssasin]

I don't really see how that counters my point.
I haven't played Xenogears but I doubt it can stand next to master literary works and critically acclaimed movies.

It's the closest that a video game can get to one.

There are video games that aren't made for entertainment but they are very few and don't sell well. Video games like that are very restricted in the stories it can tell and in the way they can tell a story. It's sad video games are not respected enough as a storytelling medium. Part of the blame is the consumer. Most gamers don't read that many books and most don't even care about stories and storytelling methods. Good video games aren't dependent on that. As you pointed out, it's more focused on gameplay, graphics, physics engines, world building, interactiveness, and immersion. Video game storytelling is a rare and unappreciated art.

Why do you believe that cinematography and literature is spared from that same criticism which is applicable to them?

 

[Mr. MR]

It's the closest that a video game can get to one.

That's not a very optimistic future of video games and storytelling.

Why do you believe that cinematography and literature is spared from that same criticism which is applicable to them?

Because art is a way of telling truths from any perspective and video games are not widely considered as art. The very name "game" holds it down.