Robertking1123
Guitar Hero 2 Lover
damn energizer aint got nothing on this thread.:shifty:
PS3 sucks, now tell me why not to think so.
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123eman said:so from what i understand its bad for a company to use the newest and best technology in a system. you would rather have them use the same stuff. then whats the point of NEXT-GEN gaming? your telling me you would be fine with gamecube graphics knowing you could have 360 and ps3 graphics?
going back to your analogy your telling me you would rather have a civic over a benz?! i know its just a analogy but are you KIDDING ME! thats like saying i would rather spend 10 000 on a civic which i know will give me problems rather than spend 20 000 on a benz which has been proven to last better than most cars on the market. same goes for consoles, you pay 279(cad) for last gen graphics with wii mote. while you can pay 499(360) or 699(ps3) for next gen graphics and much more(entertainment hub) also you have that sense of assurance that 4,5 mb even 6 years down the road you wont be having the feeling that you got ripped off.
Yes mario is a good game in which alot of people have played and still do play (gotta love Virtual console) but sony did have alot of great games for the ps1 ps2(god of war, final fantasy, GTA) the only game i would actually compare to Mario, popularity wise is Grand Theft Auto the whole series, i personally believe this game is way more popular than mario ever was( note this is only my opinion, im not saying that mario sucks i love the game!) and if you ask most gamers they will all tell you that they have played GTA.
sorry for the late reply. yes, i'd much rather buy a $10,000 civic over a $20,000 benze because of its reliability, not style. forgive me, but i believe the point of NEXT-GEN GAMING is to improve on the gaming itself, not the visual effects. if you wanted to buy a benz because it had nice rims and not the civic, even though it had a better engine and a more reliable and proven maker, then you're in for a bitter surprise. one must keep in mind while buying cars, homes, gaming systems or what have you that although a company may glamorize their product, the shine and shimmer does not contribute whatsoever to the overall quality of the system and/or its games. yes, mercedes has been proven to make better cars than hondas by far, but the sony playstation series is not the mercedes benz of the gaming world. while sony has undoubtedly released games that have given gamers pleasure across the world, what does it say? that it's only been around for several years and has not, not by a long shot, proven its authenticity as a gaming giant. nintendo has been doing the gaming thing since sony was still married to mariah carey, and yet even after so long, we still hail mario, zelda, donkey kong and the like to be classics, games that we've all grown up on. who can say that about final fantasy? gta? again, whiles these games were wildly popular and good (for the most part), they have not stood the test of time, nor do i think (again, not trying to flame, just stating my opinion) it will.
i'm sorry, but you can't compare mario to gta: watermelons and grapes, davids and goliaths. if after 15 years gta is still being spoken about as one of the greatest franchises in gaming history, then maybe we can talk. but it hasn't. nor will it. sony is certainly a heavy contender, but i think the ps3's trumped when compared to the wii. innovation (from a proven maker) vs. glimmer and shine (from an up-and-coming maker): KO, Nintendo.
Celestial
WiiChat Member
I think you can compare Mario and Zelda to GTA and Final Fantasy, just like you can compare them to Halo on 360.
Shiftfallout
shiftfallout.com
Celestial said:
aka comparable franchises, not game genres, target audience..ect
Celestial
WiiChat Member
Did you just agree with me?impossible. realistically, how wide of a spectrum do you believe GTA is popular in? what's the age range? better yet, at what age do you cap the age limit with which GTA is familiar with gamers? here's what i'm trying to say: my mom (55) is familiar with mario, but has no clue as to what grand theft auto is, or halo. so again, realistically, which is more popular?Celestial said:
watermelons and grapes.
Celestial
WiiChat Member
But Final Fantasy, GTA and Halo are all best selling games, so they must be popular, right?
Grapes more popular, watermelons much nicer.
Grapes more popular, watermelons much nicer.
absolutely. but how popular? that's my thesis and argumentative point. when comparing the two systems, we must always, always keep in mind who the reliable, proven sources are. i am in no way discounting the quality, and surely the popularity, of sony. no, not at all. what i'm saying is nintendo is still the gaming giant, the mother of all consoles, and when matching up the ps3 and the wii, this factor should not be overlooked. that's all.
Celestial
WiiChat Member
Fair enough... I've never been good at arguing... so you win. But I'm more of a GTA/Final Fantasy person myself, although I love Mario games.
Or maybe Shift will argue for me?
Or maybe Shift will argue for me?
Shiftfallout
shiftfallout.com
Celestial said:
Mario games of the present are not the mario games of the past. So i think its fair to say people are familiar with the franchise he represents, his character is one of the oldest video game characters in existance and thus an icon to represent video games in general. However, Mario as a character is well known, NOT Mario as a video game. If you mention mario to someone, they will know who he is but they wont be able to explain the games that are associated with his character.
This is where choosing a preferable game and genre come into play. Final Fantasy is amazing because it does not rely on the same characters to sell the product, its a franchise with no main character. Just quality and consistant good story telling. GTA is a franchise with no main character(s), its a game known for its style of play and humor. Mario is a franchise that is consistant that it relies on the character as the icon. Many say if you have played any post N64 mario game you have played them all. In a sense this is true because they are becoming a bit repetative. So people play mario for mario. Get rid of mario and what do you have? In Final Fantasy you dont rely on any one known character, same with GTA. This is why people might enjoy these franchises more due to less repetative characters.
So we need to seperate Mario as an icon and game. The icon is popular, i wouldnt go as far as to say the games are, especially the current ones.
Celestial
WiiChat Member
Thanks for that!
Shiftfallout said:
ok, let's separate them. mario is definitely nintendo's posterboy. but i think it's unfair to say that if you were to mention mario to people, they'd be able to identify him as a character but not be able to tell you what games he represents; if this is true, how then are they able to identify mario? do you really believe that there are people out there who can only say that they know mario, but know nothing of what he represents game-wise? that's like saying, "yes, i know GTA, but i only know it as a car game." that's not fair, is it? i'm sure people are able to say, "GTA is a game where you can hotwire cars and race around the city and kill people." I just said it, and I can tell you right now that i've never played a GTA game in my life. how do i know the basic rundown? well, because it's become a postergame for sony. in the same sense, mario has been the posterboy for nintendo; to say that people arne't able to identify mario along with what he represents is unfair.
now mario as a franchise. it's untrue that his franchise is based solely on him--you know as well as i do that there are other memorable characters that helped skyrocket mario to the top. for instance, peach (or princess toadstool), toad, bowser and luigi have all appealed to different types of gamers worldwide. all of these characters hold a distinct place in the mario franchise; if any one of these characters were to disappear forever, will the franchise itself not be changed eternally? the fact of the matter is that the franchise is what is it because of its characters, but that's not to rule out its gameplay. mario's setup has historically been one of the best there's been in the gaming industry. from the side-scrolling platforms to the 3D, run-wherever-the-hell-you-want upgrades, mario's gameplay has been nothing short of spectacular. either way you flip this coin, mario's franchise is based on much more than mario himself. from his supporting cast to the undeniably fun gameplay (admittedly, there may have been a fluke or two), mario still reigns supreme in the gaming industry.
so to compare, again (and i say again cuz it seems like this debate can go on forever), is unfair. it's like pitting lebron james up against michael jordan: james' got game, but it's far too early to make any assumptions as to his legacy; as for right now, and as far as i can tell, jordan will always be at the top of the game.
watermelons and grapes.
Shiftfallout
shiftfallout.com
dodabird said:
You basically just agreed with me and didnt even know it. Mario is an icon, the characters in the mario franchise are the selling points of the games. This is not true for final fantasy or GTA. Their franchises have different focuses.
Its not about what games mario represents, people can say. Hey its mario the video game character. But can they honestly talk about the games? Can you go up to a random stranger and say, hey do you know Mario and Luigi? then say Tell me about Mario Sunshine? most people can associate with knowing the characters. I wouldnt go as far as to say they know all the games. Meaning, they talk about the characters not the games or the gameplay. In GTA people talk about the gameplay and the games, not the characters. Final Fantasy includes the story and each individual game has a cast of main characters. The franchise is popular not because of any one character.
People can look forward to the next Final Fantasy game without knowning the new characters, but are equally excited. People can look forward to the next GTA game without knowing the characters and story.
People cannot look forward to the next mario game if theres no Mario (and casts). Its simple really. I dont know how you dont get this part. Mario is an icon, he represents gaming.. not just for nintendo but the whole console gaming industry. You also forget Marios popularity stems from a Movie, Cartoons, comics, toys, coloring books, lunchpails.. the list goes on. Its his character that people love, the franchises characters.. the ones people know. Games.. no not so much.
And yes, you cant compare the two, which is what i have been saying. Because Mario as a franchise is based off characters/icon not a genre. GTA and Final Fantasy, are franchises based off a genre and legacy.
Are you arguing for the sake or arguing?
Read the above comment, its is TRUE. Mario bros is based off. .yes mario. Remember all those games that .. left Luigi out of the loop untill people started complaining. Luigi is still being put under the rug most of the time. Mario sunshine have luigi as a playable character? will mario galaxy? Will these other characters appear in mario galaxy with the same focus as mario? no .. not so much. The days of Mario Bros are over, its all about Mario himself.
Will the franchise itself not be changed eternally if characters dissapear? Its happening all the time. Mario Bros 3 brought in the Koopa kids, cartoons followed and all that good stuff, now they are gone. What about the Yoshi world? All you have left is a green Yoshi and no explaination as to why. The exclusion of Bowser after Princess has turned into the creation of.. shocking.. yes Wario and Maluigi.. i mean.. how could they have ever invented these new characters? Bowser was creative.. wario, maluigi.. whats next evil yoshi and princess evilpeach?
No, the focus in on Mario. And now.. shocking Wario. Mario and Wario as seperate franchises. Didnt take a genius to think that one up did it?
The franchise relys on the iconic characters, nothing more. Wario Ware? its a game with Wario slapped onto it, it has nothign to do with him. Icon to sell a product.
Thats a nice opinion, but its not true. A mario game without mario is no game at all. The franchise is based off the character, nothing more. Imagine those games without any mario character. You cant because the iconic character is the focus on the game. Not so for GTA. Not so for FF.
Yet they are both Fruit. No one is saying they are the same in every possible way. Mario is an icon that has been around since the original donkey kong rolling barrels game that appeared in arcades. His franchise is based off him. He is the popular focus, not the games. GTA is the other way around, same with FF.
Just accept it. You keep debating in circles.
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it's interesting how you accuse me of "debating in circles," when you're the one who is attempting to base your entire argument (again and again) on the assumption that mario, as an individual, is the only thing that holds that franchise together. yes, i am agreeing with you (and i'm quite cognizant of it, thank you): mario (and his list of friends) is the selling point, but it isn't the only thing that makes mario great. this is where i think you and i are missing each other. you argue selling points, i argue selling points and gameplay. don't get me wrong, i don't completely disagree with you. again, i agree that mario is what gets the games off the shelf, but i cannot bring myself to agree that mario himself is the only thing that makes the game great and look myself in the mirror the next day; how you can is beyond me. no, i can't walk up to a stranger and ask them if they knew mario and if so, if they can tell me about mario sunshine. but can you walk up to that same stranger and ask them about to explain to you the plot of ffII? III? VIII? of course not--it's absurd! if someone doesn't play games, how in the world are they gonna get specific? that's not how this debate is going to be decided, Shiftfallout. i believe that the most important aspect of this debate is the transcendent popularity of gaming franchises. and whether you want to believe it or not, when you pit mario (or zelda or donkey kong) against final fantasy or GTA, nintendo has the upper hand; it has and always will. again, i'm not denying the quality of sony's main contenders, or the popularity even. i am saying that when comparing system franchises, there is just no competition.
waterme--ugh, forget it.
p.s. i appreciate the fact that you're willing to debate with me on this issue. it's good to know that we can keep a decent, intelligent conversation going without getting childish. kudos.
waterme--ugh, forget it.
p.s. i appreciate the fact that you're willing to debate with me on this issue. it's good to know that we can keep a decent, intelligent conversation going without getting childish. kudos.
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