2v2 fun

[Generalsma]

Eh, Ike is pretty... meh. Middle tier. He's good, but has a lot of flaws. The only way to effectively play him is overuse his N-air, AAA, and spiking moves, with a few power moves thrown in for good measure. ... And let's not forget the "spud" combo.

Then again, when he has so few moves with priority, that's the only way he can be played well.

You actually believe in all that tier list crap? I don't care what it says I just use who I'm good with. Ike has a whole bunch of other combos not just the N-air and AAA. I modified that combo in a way that it will reach about 46-53% of damage. Trust me, Ike is one or possibly the best character.

 

[Splash_King]

Remember, middle tier = good-average character, Ike isn't the best. Due to his general slow speed but raw power his options are good, but few in number, which adds to being predictable. If the few options he has are counterable by the foe, say someone like Falco (spacers + projectile means Ike'l have trouble), he's doomed. It's not that hard to counter Ike either.

Ike doesn't have combos, they're all escapable with DI unless you're Bowser/DK/another slow, bulky character. And even then, proper aerial dodges allow them to miss. The spud combo I mentioned is probably his hardest to get out of string of moves, but it's certainly escapable. It's N-air > U-tilt > Up B. The U-tilt is really hard to dodge, and if you're at a low percent, it's not happening, but you can DI from the Up B.

I don't believe in tiers, I just use them as examples. Tiers are just a general rating of how good a character is, all based on their current metagame, potential, stats, matchups, etc. Considering it doesn't predict outcomes of matches or say who to use, there's not really anything to "believe" in.

EDIT: Wow, I'm typing sloppily... fixed a bunch of things, especially the spud combo.

 

[skullJOKE]

just about every character has a significantly lamer than average move... but not Ike! he can charge his side smash indefinitely.. his up smash is disabling, his down is that awesome counter we love but don't use enough- and then, just for fun, an explosive charge.... He's got it all- I also like instead of the bat swing they had him hold the sword pointing down.

what a bad ass.

 

[skullJOKE]

also... a players skill can be measured by the characters he plays regardless of their flaws... so someone who can kick your ass with Olimar, for example, is awesome. Whereas characters like Meta-knight, Pit, and Falco- I would call cheater characters... It's way more fun to come up with original ways to fight with flawed characters... And since it's all about timing anyway- guys who use Ganondorf just need to have better timing.

 

[Splash_King]

No double posting.

Ike's D-smash is actually very flawed. It has about as much reach as his AAA, but is slower. If sidestep dodged, he's wide open for being combo'd or even KO'd. It also doesn't have all that much power compared to his other moves. It's not a bad idea if your enemy is spamming dodge rolls to get behind you, but no good player is that predictable.

His U-smash is actually a great move... I'm not sure where you're getting your info from. It's got great knockback and range, hits on both sides, and is just a tiny bit faster than too slow to be crappy. An excellent KO move, and just great for spacing or mindgames.

His F-smash is by far his poorest move... the lag is intense, the cooldown is even worse, and it's often predictable. Hitting a pro with this move means your either much better with prediction, you had a huge stroke of luck, or the enemy isn't a pro at all. It may have crazy power, but a good hit with his f-tilt has better horizontal knockback, making it a better KO move when spaced correctly.

As a side note, I will mention my badass Ike player friend, he's the kind of person I mentioned that CAN land an F-smash on another pro. He's beaten me more than I've beaten him, which I don't know a single other person who can... Ugh, he's scary, lol.

also... a players skill can be measured by the characters he plays regardless of their flaws...

Ya, that's one of my motto's. I'm not some n00b who picks Meta just because he's high tier, lol. As I mentioned before, tier's aren't a way to define who you play as. Abiding by tiers is only necesarry in the big league tournaments that're nationals, state, etc.

Besides, if you can play Captain Falcon as good as a pro can play Meta Knight, you know you're good. Better than the Meta player, in fact. Playing like a pro with a low or even bottom tier character takes insane skill, something I personally don't have (lowest on the charts I go is middle tier, with Wolf).

By the way, you've got some things wrong. Olimar is high middle, last time I checked. If not, middle. He has terrible recovery, but he has power, range, spammability, and he's a hard to hit target. If you can't manage to knock him far enough off the stage, he'll come back to haunt you with a 3 stock.

Pit is also middle tier, he's not exactly a cheapo character like Meta or Snake. Spammability (which Pit can't do as effectively as some other characters, even though he certainly can) =/= good character.

 

[Generalsma]

I didn't quote you CK cause it was too long. About Ike, Ike is good at hitting enemys with timing moves. Like you said, it is very unlikely to land a F-smash on a pro, but the thing is that you need to get the pro to go to the F-smash. Sure they may air dodge it but that is why you hold the charge and release it when they run out of invisibility frames. Now his B-air is awsome, it's quick and powerful.

 

[Splash_King]

That's why pro's don't charge in when you're charging an F-smash. Even when they're recovering, they can use their up B to go to the ledge, go above you, or just zip to the ledge before you can hit them. Baiting someone into an F-smash is just plain silly, they'l slowly approach you while remaining out of range, and when you swing, you just got smashed. Lol.

B-air is a good move. Not excellent, but good. Ike isn't good at RARing, and it's vertical hitbox is low, so you need a lot of practice with it. It does have power though, and when tippered (which is easy to do with all his moves), the knockback is very horizontal, making it a good kill move. The best part is he can RAR, without the approach part, to smack an approaching enemy. It's not a bad spacer with that in mind. So yeah, it is a good move.

Sort of like Wolf, Ike can also do a rain of RAR'd B-air's while slowing approaching someone, without any landing lag. I do it for lulz sometimes, not in a serious battle though. It could catch sidesteppers off guard though.

The most important thing about his B-air is that he can do a no-lag RAR. One of his combo's at low percents is actually RAR B-air > AAA/U-tilt. You can also play mindgames with his F-smash when they have moderate damage and are barely in range, while their get up attack will miss.

 

[Generalsma]

I didn't quote you bacause it was too long Like you said before the problem with Ike is that he is too predictible. You could try mixing up moves like AA Grapple, or Side Special AA Grapple or just AAA. The best thing about his U-air is that he gets people while airdodging. It's a challenge dodging his U-air specially with big characters. Ike has recovery problems like being far off the stage and charging his Side Special it could be interfered easily with projectiles or just by jumping in front of him, or EDGEHOGGERS who I hate with the bottom of my heart. I quit the matches when I fight with edgehoggers and warn them not to do it again and if they keep on doing it I just stop playing them for a while. Back to Ikes recovery problems, his Aether (Up Special) is great when you know that you are going to get back to the stage, but not good when you're not going to reach it and it's a Stall Then Fall move. It has a spike but it's not to easy to land the spike.

 

[Splash_King]

In other words, mindgames are the most important part for playing Ike. With good mindgames, Ike becomes monstrous. Why? Because all that raw power makes for good punishing skills.

In competitive play, which is what I'm talking about, edgehoggers rein supreme. Both his recovery moves, while impressive, are easily edgehogged. You pretty much mentioned how they fail miserably when facing a good opponent, lol. Mindgames are essential to let Ike recover. With his Side B, you need to predict if they'l grab the ledge, so you need to release early and get on the stage. If you get on the stage and they attack, you're probably dead, lol.

Up B is just plain easy to edgeguard. Slide off the stage and into the ledge and Ike just lost a stock, lol. That's why it's always best to position yourself to be able to land right on the edge of the stage, rather than on the ledge, just in case. Again though, if you mispredict, you could get smashed right off again.

Also, his Up B isn't a spike/meteor smash, it's too weak. It's more of a faster footstool jump kind of thing, unless your target's at a really high percentage.

 

[Generalsma]

When you use his Up Special and you drag them down with you and end up grabbing the ledge it becomes like you said a powerful footstool but it is considered a weak spike. Edgehoggers piss me off how about anyone else?

 

[Splash_King]

There's nothing wrong with edgehoggers and edgehogging, it's just another mechanic intended for the game. It's all up to preferrence ofcourse, and I personally support it to the fullest. It adds more strategy and variety to the game. ... Then again, I'm semi-competitive.

 

[Envek]

can i join this?
i have no partner currently anyways.
CK: ur an edgehogger? XD

 

[Splash_King]

CK: ur an edgehogger? XD

Damn right I am, and I'm proud. ... I'm more about hitting the opponent again once they're off the stage, rather than getting to the ledge first though; especially meteor smashes. Beware my Wolf and his D-air of doom.

I'll certainly refrain from edgehogging if someone asked, though. Just not in a competitive match.

 

[Envek]

oh ok good reminds me of CANON except he wont ever stop.

 

[Generalsma]

oh ok good reminds me of CANON except he wont ever stop.

Edgehogging is a very cheep way to earn a KO. It is not something fair especially towards characters like 0SS or Olimar the IC or any other character with a tether recovery. It is a coward technique that shows the real weakling that you are. I'm a beast with Olimar with a ton of combos and I get screwed when I'm outside the stage and they start edgehogging. Envek I've played CANON once and he's a huge slammer with Falco. He overuses his chaingrab, lasers, and his AAA. Does he have a wiichat account by any chance?