PS3 sucks, now tell me why not to think so.

[Griever]

Yeah i heard bicycles are outselling jets this month in the USA too.

But you would expect Bicycles to outsell jets; you wouldn't expect an expensive console to outsell a cheaper one. Then again, if that actually means Game Boy Advances and doesn't mean Nintendo DS's then that stat wouldn't shock me since GBA's were stopped being sold a long time ago...

 

[Flagel]

Wow pictures, thanks for that Shift, you just show that internet who is boss. I guess your console warrior sword of +3 flamewar is growing dull.

Also the ps2 is outselling the ps3, and the ds is outselling the ps3, and the wii is outselling the ps3, and the 360 it outselling the ps3, and the psp is outselling the ps3. Also your analagy kind of fails because sales are important to a console, as more sales = more developers and more developers = more games, whereas it won't hurt the sale of plane tickets if more bicycles are sold.


Its just funny that a 6 year old handheld of a previous generation of handhelds, is outselling the mighty blu-ray player.
THIS
IS
LIVING

 

[Squall7]

lol probably, I am usually involved in drinking a beer or talking so time seems to go by fairly fast. Its not long though.

Ok. It take my drive a couple of hours to write to DVD. There again, it is quite an old one now...

It definately shows. The third party devs havent yet quite used the wiimote as well as ninty has. Wiisports is by far my favorite wii game, but they should have put wiiplay with the wii itself because as a stand alone, its a really bad game and wiisports, though fun, is still lacking in options. I remember they said they wanted to use mario characters instead of mii's, i really wish they did.

True. Though I think a lot of people bought Wiiplay for the extra Wiimote. I kinda agree about the mario characters in Wiisports, though I think it should be optional. Or at least have it so that the Wii pulls out secret characters every once in a while...

Well from what I know, first the 360 uses 9 gig dvds and if you were to play a pirated game, it has to be able to fit on the dvd, second they actually use the roms within the 360 itself to read and make the images of the games. I remember with the original 360, they booted up a custom interface when turning on the console. Piracy for the 360 is still not easy, but its not non existant either. I will have to read up more on the 360 in that area because I have not really kept up to date on the 360s progression with modders and pirates.

True, though I do know you can get dual layered (9GB) disks in retail - well special orders at least. Sounds like Microsoft is starting to take piracy seriously.

If i give you an answer, i know personally i wouldnt be 100% sure about it. So i need to look into the actual blue ray writing process. I am familiar with the basics of blue ray, and have not taken the time to research how it will be used in terms of home use and PCs.

Fair enough. Just as a matter of interest, is it true that PS3 Blu-Ray drives are 2X speed, and does this effect loading times. I've heard that the first time you put in a PS3 game, it takes quite a while.

True, pirates are still the minority of gamers. But lets look at it in a different light. Piracy is indirectly partially nintendos fault because they cannot keep up with the demand.

Interesting, but that wouldn't explain things like NES Roms, and the hacks that come from them. I presume those are more to do with gamers mixing nostalgia with hardcore gaming. The Mario hacks look mad!

By that i mean, consider this: buying a wii from outside sources is common because it is so hard to find. So you have people who buy wiis and resell them for much much more. I have seen this first hand, and a search on ebay will show users showing off mountains of wiis they have for sale. They cut the normal consumer off from the source and resell higher. In order to get an even better price, quite a few will buy a cheap 20-50 dollar mod chip, install it in all their wiis. Burn the games. And then resell it as a package deal for 300 more than a normal wii on ebay/craigslist. It is easier to find already modded wiis that have been marked up in price because of the mod job.

True, true. I wonder how much it's happening compared to the people that are going the "official" route (buying games, rather than downloading them)...

So due to the demand and lack of supply due partially to these resellers looking to make an extra buck, mod chips within the wii are much easier to find. And someone looking for a wii will buy it because its in demand, and they feel they are getting a deal with the free pirated games.

True, but even then there's got to be some form of trust going on. Paying for something over the internet that's had it's warranty invalidated isn't exactly what I would look for...

 

[Shiftfallout]

Nah, when put my ps3 games in, it doesnt take that long at all. Even though it runs at 2x speed, its also taking in a lot more information per rotation. Its not fast but its not slow either. Just feels normal. I believe the ps1 had much longer loading times.

 

[Dongo]

[/quote]As long as we understand nintendos primary market is children and has been so for a long time, they cannot win with being the most technologically advanced system. Nintys goal then is just to make something fun and simple. Once we can accept the fun and simple side of nintendo, and not make it out to be more or less than what it really is. Accepting what it can and cannot do, then we can all talk normally.[/quote]

That wont happen not because people think the Wii is the best system, only because people think the PS3 is a crap system. So i guess sony has to apologize for spending billions to give us something we've been wanting for years at a reasonable price. Lets all send sony letters saying

"Hey assholes. The next system you make had better not exceed 3 buttons or use anything other then a floppy disk. Thanks to you Nintendo was forced to stop useing cartridges. I hope you now realize people dont want Blu-Ray, dispite it out selling HD-DVD's. A rechargable, replacable, lithiom ion battery? Duracell is just fine for me thank you. If i dont spend at least 100 dollars a month on batteries, your wrong. I hope you get the message and dont make the same mistake with the PS4."

Hm, sound bout right.

 

[Griever]

The PS3 isn't a reasonable price for a CONSOLE. It's not a PC so it doesn't need that many features, simple as.

 

[Shadow20074]

The PS3 isn't a reasonable price for a CONSOLE. It's not a PC so it doesn't need that many features, simple as.

yeah you could buy a decent pc for less, and he could all the flaming he wants then ^_^

 

[Dongo]

I have Linux on mine so, actually yes it is a PC and no you could not get PS3 spec PC's for 600 smacks.

 

[Griever]

If you can't run Microsoft Office on it it isn't a PC. It's a very easy rule of thumb to follow since the whole idea of the PC is to make Office work easier - not to play games or use the internet as these are just additional features.

Sony should have waited 'til their next console to use Blu-Ray but they didn't and it's made their console too expensive for most people to afford. Out of this and the 360 I would rather have a PS3 simply because of the games which will come out but I know I can't afford one - simple as.

PS2 and FFXII ftw. xD

 

[Squall7]

Nah, when put my ps3 games in, it doesnt take that long at all. Even though it runs at 2x speed, its also taking in a lot more information per rotation. Its not fast but its not slow either. Just feels normal. I believe the ps1 had much longer loading times.

Fair enough.

Heck, loading times don't matter all that much to me, as long as there's something to keep me occupied, whilst loading (e.g. Devil May Cry's gunshots or Mortal Kombat's renders).

I mean, I am from the days where you had to wait ten minutes to play a Spectrum game, and then there's always the risk of crashing...

Also, I wonder what role HDD will play in HD. I mean, more and more things are becoming downloadable...

...Though not too sure if HD movies are yet... ...Although broadband is at the point where we could probably stream a half decent picture to a HDTV...

Of course, I do prefer to keep a hard copy, but if that means burning it to some sort of disk (whether it be HD-DVD, Blue Ray or the disks that hold both formats), then I'd be doing just that.

 

[Dongo]

Out of this and the 360 I would rather have a PS3 simply because of the games which will come out but I know I can't afford one - simple as.

A lot of people cant afford on, which is the only reason people dont like it. In what it boils down to is:

Poor people=bad system

If the system was cheaper it would be good? If Blu-Ray was cheaper it would be widely accepted? So by peoples logic:

Cheap systems=great systems

Isnt that like saying and $3,000 dollar TV compared to a $250 is crap because no one needs HDTV's? Because you cant afford the plasma or LCD tv then its a stupid idea and should have just gone with CRT. You dont even need tv's, the radio works just as good and its cheaper. You dont need stereo, that would just make it cost more. Mono sound is fine. But then why listen to people doing things when you could just go outside and play for free.

So you see, by logic of "It would be cheaper if" really only means game companies should stop making games.

 

[Squall7]

A lot of people cant afford on, which is the only reason people dont like it. In what it boils down to is:

I can't really say for everyone else, but the cost isn't the only factor, at least for me, that I won't be getting one (at least not anytime soon). Another example of why I'm not interested in it, is because there's no games that really excite me.

Poor people=bad system

If the system was cheaper it would be good? If Blu-Ray was cheaper it would be widely accepted? So by peoples logic:

Cheap systems=great systems

Meh, I just don't like the idea of a single company owning the rights to the main media format. Sony have tried to do it before, and if they succeed, I'm not convinced it will be good for the consumer...

Isnt that like saying and $3,000 dollar TV compared to a $250 is crap because no one needs HDTV's? Because you cant afford the plasma or LCD tv then its a stupid idea and should have just gone with CRT. You dont even need tv's, the radio works just as good and its cheaper. You dont need stereo, that would just make it cost more. Mono sound is fine. But then why listen to people doing things when you could just go outside and play for free.

Well, no. For a start, you're providing a dilemma for an unproven theory - that cost is the only factor that stops people from buying a PS3. Secondly, it's not that cheap systems=great systems. It's that cheap systems=accessible=popular=nothing to do with how good a system is. However I do feel that the Wii is a good system, but that's because of other reasons - like the Wiimote. Heck, even the internet is relatively fun to surf on - I get to do it on my settee (sofa or couch)! Mii's are also another factor.

So you see, by logic of "It would be cheaper if" really only means game companies should stop making games.

Or, it could mean that we feel as though technology is progressing soo much in one direction, that they could be looking sideways, rather than straight up. How many generations would it be, before games become photorealistic? And where would we go from there?

 

[Dongo]

Meh, I just don't like the idea of a single company owning the rights to the main media format. Sony have tried to do it before, and if they succeed, I'm not convinced it will be good for the consumer...

Sony started the DVD.

Heck, even the internet is relatively fun to surf on - I get to do it on my settee (sofa or couch)!

Agreed

Or, it could mean that we feel as though technology is progressing soo much in one direction, that they could be looking sideways, rather than straight up. How many generations would it be, before games become photorealistic? And where would we go from there?

That all depends. It could take a short time before we reach that period in time but it could also take a long time. If we keep looking at what we need and dont need, nothing will progress. If we adapt new things, as useless as they seem, it will help the push in that direction.

We need the blu-ray. It has already been stated without it, many games exclusive to ps3 wouldnt have been made, not the same at least. Without PS3 AND blu-ray, would it have really been a true next gen console.

 

[Squall7]

Sony started the DVD.

I know wikipedia isn't all that reputable, but it does have an entry:

In the early 1990s two high-density optical storage standards were being developed; one was the MultiMedia Compact Disc, backed by Philips and Sony, and the other was the Super Density disc, supported by Toshiba, Time-Warner, Matsushita Electric, Hitachi, Mitsubishi Electric, Pioneer, Thomson, and JVC. IBM's president, Lou Gerstner, acting as a matchmaker, led an effort to unite the two camps behind a single standard, anticipating a repeat of the costly videotape format war between VHS and Betamax in the 1980s.

Philips and Sony abandoned their MultiMedia Compact Disc and fully agreed upon Toshiba's SuperDensity Disc with only one modification, namely EFMPlus. EFMPlus was chosen as it has a great resilience against disc damage such as scratches and fingerprints. EFMPlus, created by Kees Immink, who also designed EFM, is 6% less efficient than the Toshiba code, which resulted in a capacity of 4.7 GB as opposed to the original 5 GB. The result was the DVD specification, finalized for the DVD movie player and DVD-ROM computer applications in December of 1995.[1] In May 1997, the DVD Consortium was replaced by the DVD Forum, which is open to all other companies.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD

That all depends. It could take a short time before we reach that period in time but it could also take a long time. If we keep looking at what we need and dont need, nothing will progress. If we adapt new things, as useless as they seem, it will help the push in that direction.

True. By the same token, who is to say we should go in this direction or that direction. I mean, in the end, we don't NEED games, but they still are progressing. I feel that the route before the Wii was working up to a form of hyper-realism - photorealistic graphics with the added special effects. Of course, this would only compliment a niche market, that is potentially smaller than the one we have at the moment. In effect, realism promotes reality (or hyper reality at least). With the push for realistic graphics, and realistic effects, we leave behind the cartoon style art form, instead focusing on computer generated realistic sprites (much like the Final Fantasy films).

We need the blu-ray. It has already been stated without it, many games exclusive to ps3 wouldnt have been made, not the same at least. Without PS3 AND blu-ray, would it have really been a true next gen console.

It has been stated before that the only thing blu-ray supplies us with is a shitload of memory. Blu Ray is really only (literally) needed when we don't want to swap to second disks and when we cannot compress information further. Of course, more required memory requires a bigger crew, bigger development costs, longer development time etc...

Surely, counting on the raw processing power of the PS3, a lack of blu-ray drive, would have meant that games are loaded and rendered in an amazingly short amount of time. I mean, is it really Blu ray that makes it next gen, or is it it's graphics power? Is it the controller? Is it the features? Or is it a combination of these?

 

[Shiftfallout]

Im gonna do a lil copying and pasting so we can all get edumacaded !!!

Blu-ray

Blu-ray is a new optical disc standard based on the use of a blue laser rather than the red laser of DVD players. The standard was developed collaboratively by Hitachi, LG, Matsushita (Panasonic), Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, and Thomson. Toshiba and NEC are among the companies promoting a competitive optical format, HD-DVD.

The blue laser has a 405 nanometer (nm) wavelength that can focus more tightly than the red lasers used for writable DVD. As a consequence, a Blu-ray disc can store much more data in the same 12 centimeter space. Like the rewritable DVD formats, Blu-ray uses phase change technology to enable repeated writing to the disc.

Blu-ray's storage capacity is enough to store a continuous backup copy of most people's hard drives on a single disc. The first products have a 27 gigabyte (GB) single-sided capacity, 50 GB on dual-layer discs. Data streams at 36 megabytes per second (Mbps), fast enough for high quality video recording. Single-sided Blu-ray discs can store up to 13 hours of standard video data, compared to single-sided DVD's 133 minutes. People are referring to Blu-ray as the next generation DVD, although according to Chris Buma, a spokesman from Philips (quoted in New Scientist) "Except for the size of the disc, everything is different."

Blu-ray discs will not play on current CD and DVD players, because they lack the blue-violet laser required to read them. If the appropriate lasers are included, however, Blu-ray players can play the other two formats.

Blu-ray disc players (BDPs) are available from a number of manufacturers, including Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and Sony. Sony's Playstation 3 also has a Blu-ray drive installed.

What will Blu-ray products cost?


As with any new technology the first generation of products will likely be quite expensive due to low production volumes. However, this shouldn't be a problem for long as there is a wide range of Blu-ray related products (players, recorders, drives, writers, media, etc) planned, which should help drive up production volumes and lower overall production costs. Once mass production of components for Blu-ray products begins the prices are expected to fall quickly.

According to the Blu-ray Disc Association, the overall cost of manufacturing Blu-ray Disc media will in the end be no more expensive than producing a DVD. The reduced injection molding costs (one molding machine instead of two, no birefringence problems) offset the additional cost of applying the cover layer and low cost hard-coat, while the techniques used for applying the recording layer remain the same. As production volumes increase the production costs should fall and eventually be comparable to DVDs.