Ssbb meta knight

[WiiAssasin]

Opinion. You can't compare shitty modern faggot-pop to beauteous, quality classical.

They are both famous musical artists, therefore perfectly comparable!

I really am curious though, dude... What bad could possibly come from banning Meta?

What good can come from banning MK? All that did is prove that gamers don't want to strive to get better. Banning a character because they suck at fighting him, ha!

 

[Mr. MR]

I really am curious though, dude... What bad could possibly come from banning Meta?

with mk removed there is an imbalance in the scale
remove something on one side and there is a huge shift
we will see a huge shift in the metagame
it could go bad or good
but one side needs change to fit the other
The top tiers now hit S and become overused
In melee it was Fox, Falco, Jig, and Shiek
In brawl it could be Diddy, Snake, and Falco
we will see more pro Diddys, Snakes, and Falcos now
and they might have to bring mk back in to redress the scales

MK is interesting. since he has no "bad" match-ups people will use a wide verity of characters to beat him.
so in one way MK is the reason why there is diversity in Brawl, which is ironic because overuse of one character results in a diversity with all the others.
But yes the mk ban is a good thing right now but later down the road it might change

funny thought: what would happen if they put a character like MK in melee under the current melee metagame?

 

[Splash_King]

They are both famous musical artists, therefore perfectly comparable!

Famous by vastly different means, in vastly different times, and by vastly different age groups. Uncomparable.

What good can come from banning MK? All that did is prove that gamers don't want to strive to get better. Banning a character because they suck at fighting him, ha!

If that were the truth, I wouldn't be happy about them banning my best main.

with mk removed there is an imbalance in the scale
remove something on one side and there is a huge shift
we will see a huge shift in the metagame
it could go bad or good
but one side needs change to fit the other
The top tiers now hit S and become overused
In melee it was Fox, Falco, Jig, and Shiek
In brawl it could be Diddy, Snake, and Falco
we will see more pro Diddys, Snakes, and Falcos now
and they might have to bring mk back in to redress the scales

Ahah, now we're getting to the nitty-gritty discussion. =)

Meta was the imbalance in the scale. He wasn't S-tier because he was used so damn often, Snake is used nearly the same amount in the pre-ban metagame. He was S-tier because of how he has no disadvantageous match-ups, and his techs and moveset are just far better than every other character's. The metagame is, without a doubt, going to change for the better because there will be more variety, I'd bet a fine sum of cash (if I had a sum of anything at all...) that's what will happen if Meta stays unbanned. I don't know how much or what characters, but usage statistics won't be so consolidated.

Melee had no S-tier, the top tier characters were all viewed as being the best of the lineup, without any one of them being much better than the rest, unless you're comparing the top of Top tier to the bottom and such.

I'm also curious what you mean by this "scale"... If you're talking about just usage statistics, they aren't going to be bad as they were previous to the Meta ban.

MK is interesting. since he has no "bad" match-ups people will use a wide verity of characters to beat him.
so in one way MK is the reason why there is diversity in Brawl, which is ironic because overuse of one character results in a diversity with all the others.
But yes the mk ban is a good thing right now but later down the road it might change

funny thought: what would happen if they put a character like MK in melee under the current melee metagame?

That's only half of MK; he has an amazing amount of good and fantastic match-ups, too. You can't use a "wide variety" of characters to combat Meta because he has an advantage over roughly 90% of the entire Brawl roster. Through all the years of research and testing, Meta is found to have a "fair" match-up against Pikachu, Diddy, and Falco. Everyone else, he has between a slight to game-breaking advantage. So yeah, people still only use Top Tiers when combating Meta, if not going Meta themselves. I wouldn't call that variety... And if you think that is variety, it's certainly not worth how common Meta himself is.

If you mean change, as in they take away the ban, I'll be mad, bro. ;_; I never thought it'd happen, but now that it has I'm sure as **** happy about it.

 

[WiiAssasin]

Famous by vastly different means, in vastly different times, and by vastly different age groups. Uncomparable.

You've left me no choice. This should open your eyes.

As you can see, you can compare characters.

 

[Mr. MR]

That is a lot of writing!

You can't use a "wide variety" of characters to combat Meta because he has an advantage over roughly 90% of the entire Brawl roster. Through all the years of research and testing, Meta is found to have a "fair" match-up against Pikachu, Diddy, and Falco. Everyone else, he has between a slight to game-breaking advantage.

I still stand on my argument.
Even though there might be some "even" match-ups, players still use the unorthodox to battle Meta Knight. A shift in common playstyle or a change common counter-pick can hamper a Meta Knight user, and it is that ability to adapt (either the Meta Knight or the other) that separates the professionals from the imitators.

By having more diverse top tiers, people will use the top tiers to counter the top tiers. This will increase greatly the usage of those characters.
Instead of countering one character, now you have to counter three. and what better to counter one with one of the three.

lol lots of 1s and 3s

Meta was the imbalance in the scale. He wasn't S-tier because he was used so damn often, Snake is used nearly the same amount in the pre-ban metagame.

And of course there is Snake.
And the number of Snake mains will increase.
And he will be a worse problem than Meta Knight.
Meta Knight kept Snake at bay,
But now the flood gates are open!

I'm also curious what you mean by this "scale"... If you're talking about just usage statistics, they aren't going to be bad as they were previous to the Meta ban.

Ok, the scale was a metaphor. Yes Meta Knight was an imbalance but some brawlers learned to adapt and even it out. With the removel of Meta Knight we just threw the metagame out of balance again. And when it balances out...
it could be worse than before the ban.

META Knight, METAgame, METAphor lol

 

[Splash_King]

You've left me no choice. This should open your eyes.

As you can see, you can compare characters.

Harr harr. :lol:

That is a lot of writing!

It's what I do. x)

but, I still stand on my argument.
Even though there might be some "even" match-ups, players still use the unorthodox to battle MK. A shift in common playstyle or common counter-pick can hamper a MK user, and it is that ability to adapt (either the MK or the other) is what separates the pros from the imitators.

Being that your argument was Meta leaving the metagame via ban would upset it's "balance", you aren't really standing by it anymore.

Regardless of that, indeed, if either the MK pro or other pro player can adapt, that point is null and void. :lol:

Pros never use the "unorthodox", or, low tiers to play Meta either. Soon as you hit B tier and especially C tier, the matchups are more commonly going from a slight disadvantage to a decent sized one. In competitive Brawl, your aim in counterpicking is to choose the best matchup that you play well as, not the best matchup overall. Noone's going to counterpick Pikachu against Falco (Falco's worst match-up) if they don't know how to play Pikachu as an expert. This is why you see so many Snakes fighting Meta; their sub isn't Diddy or Falco (it's most likely Meta ¬_¬), and they play their Snake better than whatever other character they play that has a slight disadvantage or bigger, versus MK.

 

[Mr. MR]

Oops i added more to my post on page 5. Did you see it?

Pros never use the "unorthodox", or, low tiers to play Meta either. Soon as you hit B tier and especially C tier, the matchups are more commonly going from a slight disadvantage to a decent sized one. In competitive Brawl, your aim in counterpicking is to choose the best matchup that you play well as, not the best matchup overall. Noone's going to counterpick Pikachu against Falco (Falco's worst match-up) if they don't know how to play Pikachu as an expert. This is why you see so many Snakes fighting Meta; their sub isn't Diddy or Falco (it's most likely Meta ¬_¬), and they play their Snake better than whatever other character they play that has a slight disadvantage or bigger, versus MK.

Try playing a Ganon against there MK
The amatures do not see it coming. :biggrin5:
But the pros can easily take advantage of it. D:
however if a meta can't adapt to a playstyle he has never seen, he looses

It's what I do. x)

My opinion, (so to you it does not even matter), i think you are the best mod here.

 

[Splash_King]

Oops i added more to my post on page 5. Did you see it?

Try playing a Ganon against there MK
The amatures do not see it coming. :biggrin5:
But the pros can easily take advantage of it. D:
however if a meta can't adapt to a playstyle he has never seen, he looses

Nah, I missed it. >_>;

I'm usually referring to legit players when I'm brawltalking, 'less I specify otherwise. N00bs are unpredictable and common knowledge doesn't usually apply to 'em, after all.

My opinion, (so to you it does not even matter), i think you are the best mod here.

Is it because I'm the only mod with extensive Brawl knowledge?

And of course there is Snake.
And the number of Snake mains will increase.
And he will be a worse problem than Meta Knight.
Meta Knight kept Snake at bay,
But now the flood gates are open!

Again, the problem with Meta isn't his frequency in appearance, it's how absurdly good he is. Snake is great, but so is Flaco, Diddy, so on and so forth. If Snake's popularity suddenly absorbed Meta's, you'd see an increase of Marth usage. Marth increases in usage, you'll see more Diddy. And if Marth and Snake are both very popular, D3 might make a comeback. Flaco is already a very evenly-matched character with nigh everyone, so his usage will be a bit more if D3 does indeed make his comeback.

In short, the metagame becomes what it should be; an endless cycle of A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A. This cycle is instead replacing the previous metagame of M(eta) beats or is equal to EVERYTHING. Snake will never be a problem since Meta is 100% not his only counter, and Marth is his high-tier counter. In my opinion Snake is also just barely the second best Brawl character statistically, so if he won't be a problem, noone below him will.

Ok, the scale was a metaphor. Yes Meta Knight was an imbalance but some brawlers learned to adapt and even it out. With the removel of Meta Knight we just threw the metagame out of balance again. And when it balances out...
it could be worse than before the ban.

META Knight, METAgame, METAphor lol

Should of figured it was a metaphor... Sorry, I'm a bit derpy at the moment. >_>;

We're talking about character match-ups though, not the fact every legit pro can adapt to the situation.

The metagame never was in balance with MK apart of it, is my point. Might as well throw it out of balance by making everything random until the metagame stabilizes and balances itself, rather than keep it the broken type of unbalanced forever, yeah?

 

[Mr. MR]

i think we both thought this through well
we will have to wait and see who is right in the end

 

[Splash_King]

I was right in the fact that Meta is a broken piece of **** that should be banned, so I'm confident that I'll be right again. I'm a man who's experienced in metagameology (yes, that's not a real word), after all.

 

[Mr. MR]

I was right in the fact that Meta is a broken piece of **** that should be banned, so I'm confident that I'll be right again. I'm a man who's experienced in metagameology (yes, that's not a real word), after all.

It should be a real word. Video games are overlooked by many.

 

[Splash_King]

Video games are overlooked by many.

Fuck, don't get me started on that. :lol: I'm one of those gamers who believes video games are a true work of art when they're at their finest.

Metagames do extend beyond competitive video games, though. TCGs have much more extensive and complicated metagames than say, Brawl or Street Fighter. Other head-to-head competitions have a metagame, but the science behind them ain't very explored.

I'll take UFC as a prime example. The rules in UFC are very loose and allow, as you should know if you know about UFC, any sort of fighting style. Grappling, grounding, kicking, the works are all allowed. Martial arts from around the world show up, and I can tell ya that certain martial arts work good against some, and poorly against others. The rock-paper-scissors mentality I explained via A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A applies to UFC in the same metagame sense, although to a lesser level. Even if the science behind official martial arts fighting match-ups was well known, it'd still come down to ultimately the grit and skill of every fighter. You could master ten martial arts from East to West and no matter what, a street fighter can still whoop your ass if you're a pussy in the ring.

/tangent

 

[Mr. MR]

Fuck, don't get me started on that. :lol: I'm one of those gamers who believes video games are a true work of art when they're at their finest.

Metagames do extend beyond competitive video games, though. TCGs have much more extensive and complicated metagames than say, Brawl or Street Fighter. Other head-to-head competitions have a metagame, but the science behind them ain't very explored.

I'll take UFC as a prime example. The rules in UFC are very loose and allow, as you should know if you know about UFC, any sort of fighting style. Grappling, grounding, kicking, the works are all allowed. Martial arts from around the world show up, and I can tell ya that certain martial arts work good against some, and poorly against others. The rock-paper-scissors mentality I explained via A beats B, B beats C, and C beats A applies to UFC in the same metagame sense, although to a lesser level. Even if the science behind official martial arts fighting match-ups was well known, it'd still come down to ultimately the grit and skill of every fighter. You could master ten martial arts from East to West and no matter what, a street fighter can still whoop your ass if you're a pussy in the ring.

/tangent

Spoken true,
Don't get me started on the TCG metagame :lol:

Uhg Tangents, Cosine, Secant, Sine, Cosecant, Cotangent!

 

[WiiAssasin]

I was right in the fact that Meta is a broken piece of **** that should be banned, so I'm confident that I'll be right again. I'm a man who's experienced in metagameology (yes, that's not a real word), after all.

Just because you have an opinion that MK is broken doesn't make it true
Oh yeah, I went there.

 

[Splash_King]

Just because you have an opinion that MK is broken doesn't make it true
Oh yeah, I went there.

I don't base what I say on personal experience alone, I base it on both opinionated observations and factual evidence from research and evaluation from both myself, and people multiple times more experienced and qualified than ourselves to back my opinions.

Witty comebacks and finding grammatical and definition-related loopholes don't compete.