WiiChat's Smash4 Group Roster!

[HeyLolita]

Okay, so this is a thread dedicated to all the Smash4 anticipating Wiichat users. Here we will create both a Prediction Roster, and an Ideal Roster. A Prediction Roster is what we THINK the Smash4 roster will REALLY look like. I would like to finish this before E3 this year. Our IDEAL ROSTER, is what we WANT the roster to look like How this will work is simple, we will go franchise from franchise discussing veterans and newcomers, and try and come to a consensus on who we want/think will be in Smash 4. If we cannot agree on something we will leave it to a vote. Debate and depthy discussion is very muc encouraged, but keep it civil ladies.

To start off the prediction roster, I have this image:



This is our current roster.

Character count: 39 (43 including transformations)

Our current topic: Prediction Roster
Current Franchise discussion: Kid Icarus / Small Franchise General

Jump in, and have fun!

 

[HeyLolita]

Okay, so currently the Mario franchise consists of: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser.

Do you guys think there will be anymore characters included? I wanna hear from you before I give my opinion.

 

[Mr. MR]

I don't think anyone already in it is going to be cut.
I am assuming Yoshi and Wario are included in this

Waluigi
is not getting in:
Reason one: His existence was solely for Doulbes in Tennis and Double Dash as Wario's Partner. He has no purpose other than that.
Reason two: Two many Mario characters already. If we are going to get another one I hope it's not wasted on Waluigi.
Reason three: No Rep. He has no games. Wario has his own games but Waluigi does not.

Bowser Jr.
What makes him possible is the Magic Paint Brush.
It makes him unique. I would like to see him in but I don't really care if he does make it. His impact on the Mario Franchise is not that big.

Rosalina
Huge rep from the Super Mario Galaxy series.
However she might clash with Peach or end up as a costume, but I do see moveset potential in Lumas. Plus it could be good for marketing if there is another female in the game. The Jigglypuff strategy in effect.

All in all I think if we added one it would be Rosalina
Bowser Jr. I really don't care about.
And I do NOT want to see Waluigi in the game.

Other than Bowser Jr., I don't see any other villain making the cut. Sorry Fawful (plus he did not make the Brawl cut)
Birdo is an obscure SMB2 character that is also a partner character like Waluigi. To show my hate for Birdo, I would rather see Waluigi in it before Birdo.

 

[HeyLolita]

Waluigi
is not getting in:
Reason one: His existence was solely for Doulbes in Tennis and Double Dash as Wario's Partner. He has no purpose other than that.
Reason two: Two many Mario characters already. If we are going to get another one I hope it's not wasted on Waluigi.
Reason three: No Rep. He has no games. Wario has his own games but Waluigi does not.

Agree on your vertict, regardless of your reasoning. So we don't have to discuss him further, until someone else brings him up I guess.

Bowser Jr.
What makes him possible is the Magic Paint Brush.
It makes him unique. I would like to see him in but I don't really care if he does make it. His impact on the Mario Franchise is not that big.

While I believe the paintbrush is a PLUS, I don't consider it a saving grace, or his most redeeming quality. Junior's role pretty much has become a staple in the Mario franchise at this point. He's a semi-boss / villain, that is continuously showing up in spin-offs and, more importantly, main series titles. He's quickly becoming the FIFTH most "important" Mario character. Another thing that I believe he has going for him is that we don't really know what Sakurai thinks of him. Which is a good thing, considering whenever he brings up a character it tends to be followed by something negative. (Sans AC Villager, Miis, Balloon Fighter, ect) Unlike Toad, Junior has only recently become prominent (The last 10 years or so). So, Sakurai could have gone through Brawl without giving him much thought, but now he's become such a staple, he's bound to address him when looking at Mario characters to choose from.

His downfall is, what I believe every Mario newcomer's downfall is, they don't compare to the four already included. They're significantly lacking in comparison. For Junior, it's seniority. He's lacking the TIME under his belt that Peach, Luigi, Toad, Bowser, and Mario have. I believe he is probably the only NEWCOMER who is a choice at this point.

Which brings me to Toad. Toad shines because he's been with the franchise since the begining, and he is recognizable. That's about where his pluses end. He's a minor character, who is too iconic for Sakurai to have not thought about. I mean, when Sakurai was creating Smash Bros, Toad has always been around, and always been a reoccurring character. So, when Sakurai has made the roster, there is no way he hasn't thought of Toad, and been like "Nope" to him. Plus, there is a rumor that Sakurai isn't interested in Toad as a character, which supposedly stems from the Melee fan mail. I don't see Toad getting in Smash.

Rosalina
Huge rep from the Super Mario Galaxy series.
However she might clash with Peach or end up as a costume, but I do see moveset potential in Lumas.

I don't particularly think Rosalina fits the Smash bill. She's realitively new, and really hasn't shown any fighting ability, which is something Sakurai looks for.

Lastly, we have Doc, who was planned for Brawl. I think he has a legitimate shot at being playable once more. tl;dr Junior and Doc are all I believe are worth discussing

 

[Mr. MR]

Aye agree with you there on Toad (eliminating him)
The Doc is much better suited as a costume. Let's face it, he is Mario. Mario does not need a second spot.

What Rosalina has going for is the Newness. If you look at the roster there are old and new. Pikachu and Lucario. Marth and Ike. Rosalina is the staple of SMG which in my opinion is a Mario Masterpiece.

I don't see BJ as a staple. I am a Super Mario World fan and I liked the personality of the other 8 more than BJ's.
His mini boss status does not help him at all and I actually think it hinders. The second bandana banana is always out shined by the first banana unless your name is Luigi and it's 2013. Only the secondary hero makes it (Luigi, Falco, ect.). Secondary villain? I don't think so.

 

[Splash_King]

I myself wouldn't assume Yoshi 'n Wario are within the Mario franchise, considerin' they do have their own logo, victory theme, etc.

Anyways, I'm internally divided on the Mario franchise receiving a new character. Though the franchise only has four, so many characters spawned from the Mario franchise are already in. Sakurai has explicitly stated his desire to not over-represent any series. On the contrary, I will be predicting for other popular series such as Zelda 'n Pokemon to obtain a new character, so naturally by that logic Mario would likely receive one too.

Onto whom I believe the new Mario representative will be. While Rosalina is a significant character in Super Mario Galaxy 1, her very brief cameo in 2 doesn't really constitute as bein' in two games (let's be honest, does Mario Kart or even the sports games really count?). There's the additional fact she's never been playable in a major title as well, whereas Peach most certainly has. Rosalina definitely has moveset potential in the fact she can use magic and has lumas, which would perfectly differentiate her from Peach, but moveset potential certainly isn't enough. I don't believe Rosalina will get in, period. Not without high fan demand.

lol @ toad, waluweegee, etc. suggestions

Bowser Jr. on the other hand, definitely has potential. While he's never been playable, he's a villain: even been a main villain in certain games. Jr. also has some fan popularity. Given these two facts, as well as his clear ability t' have a unique moveset, I definitely think Jr. is the most likely candidate for a new Mario character. Unless there's some supermajorawesometacular character in Super Mario Land 3D that I wouldn't know of, since I haven't played the game. I certainly doubt that.

Oh, and I'd say no one needs t' mention there'l never be a Mario character removed at this point.

[STRIKE]also bring back doc[/STRIKE]

 

[Mr. MR]

There is truth to your Rosalina statement. However if they had to choose one character to represent SMG it would be her.

Now Peach was only playable in a resprited obscure Japanese game, that became US-SMB2... AND THAT WAS A DREAM!
I would hardly call that playable. More like quasi playable, but Sakurai did use it heavily for inspiration.

 

[HeyLolita]

Aye agree with you there on Toad (eliminating him)
The Doc is much better suited as a costume. Let's face it, he is Mario. Mario does not need a second spot.

While I definitely agree, Sakurai's actions show he doesn't which in a prediction roster hold more weight than our opinions. So he's a valid candidate, regardless of how silly he may seem to us.

What Rosalina has going for is the Newness. If you look at the roster there are old and new. Pikachu and Lucario. Marth and Ike. Rosalina is the staple of SMG.

Okay, I can see your point on the newness, but remember Lucario was added because he was a very well recieved Pokemon, just like Pikachu, Jiggs, Mewtwo, ect. Not JUST because of newness, and I don't believe Rosalina is quite on the level that Lucario was on.

I don't see BJ as a staple. I am a Super Mario World fan and I liked the personality of the other 8 more than BJ's.

But he is a staple, and has been since Sunshine in 2001.

His mini boss status does not help him at all and I actually think it hinders. The second bandana banana is always out shined by the first banana unless your name is Luigi and it's 2013. Only the secondary hero makes it (Luigi, Falco, ect.). Secondary villain? I don't think so.

If you believe Junior is too unimportant, and doesn't have a prominent enough role, or is a staple character to be playable, then Rosalina definitely shouldn't qualify. And the comment about secondary villains doesn't really hold much weight. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. (Look at third parties as an example)

I don't believe Junior will be playable in Smash4, and I don't think he should be added to our prediction roster. I'll drop the discussion about him, if you're willing to drop Rosalina. Because IMO, Rosalina really doesn't compare. She's about as much of a plot device as FLUDD is IMO. IF she shows up in Mario 3D Wii U, I'll change my tune.

and I'll be getting to you Splash in a sec, nw ~

I myself wouldn't assume Yoshi 'n Wario are within the Mario franchise, considerin' they do have their own logo, victory theme, etc.

Which is why we are discussing them later. They have their own franchises, just like Dk.

Anyways, I'm internally divided on the Mario franchise receiving a new character. Though the franchise only has four, so many characters spawned from the Mario franchise are already in. Sakurai has explicitly stated his desire to not over-represent any series. On the contrary, I will be predicting for other popular series such as Zelda 'n Pokemon to obtain a new character, so naturally by that logic Mario would likely receive one too.

For the most part, I would agree that if Sakurai can add more Pokes, or LoZ characters, he can pretty much add a new character to ANY franchise, including Mario.

Onto whom I believe the new Mario representative will be. While Rosalina is a significant character in Super Mario Galaxy 1, her very brief cameo in 2 doesn't really constitute as bein' in two games (let's be honest, does Mario Kart or even the sports games really count?). There's the additional fact she's never been playable in a major title as well, whereas Peach most certainly has. Rosalina definitely has moveset potential in the fact she can use magic and has lumas, which would perfectly differentiate her from Peach, but moveset potential certainly isn't enough. I don't believe Rosalina will get in, period. Not without high fan demand.

I don't believe she would get in, even with high demand.

lol @ toad, waluweegee, etc. suggestions

Agreed, although I do believe Toad has more going for him then people would like to credit him with.

Bowser Jr. on the other hand, definitely has potential. While he's never been playable, he's a villain: even been a main villain in certain games. Jr. also has some fan popularity. Given these two facts, as well as his clear ability t' have a unique moveset, I definitely think Jr. is the most likely candidate for a new Mario character. Unless there's some supermajorawesometacular character in Super Mario Land 3D that I wouldn't know of, since I haven't played the game. I certainly doubt that.

Agreed.

[STRIKE]also bring back doc[/STRIKE]

Personally, I feel Doc is probably JUST AS IF NOT MORE LIKELY than Junior.

 

[Splash_King]

... But I think Jr. belongs in Smash 4. ;_; Neosquid will as well, trust me.

Now Peach was only playable in a resprited obscure Japanese game, that became US-SMB2... AND THAT WAS A DREAM!
I would hardly call that playable. More like quasi playable, but Sakurai did use it heavily for inspiration.

You forget about Super Mario RPG, Peach is an actual party member IIRC. Super Princess Peach was a thing as well, not that t'was released before Melee.

 

[HeyLolita]

Oh, and don't forget, this is PREDICTION, not IDEAL. It's what we expect, not what we want.

And I would like to here Neosquid's two cents before we go and vote, so, expect to just discuss/debate SM newcomers until she(?) shows up.

 

[Mr. MR]

Sorry to any Feminists reading this, but the fact that Rosalina is a chick helps her a whole lot.

Now about BJ. Even in his main villainary role he sill is overshadowed by the King of Koopa. He always is lesser than the King which give him shade on sunny days.
Instead...
IGGY EVERYONE!!!

 

[HeyLolita]

If Junior is overshadowed by Bowser, then Rosalina is overshadowed by Peach.

But this train of thought isn't important because Doctor Mario is DEFINITELY overshadowed by Mario, yet he still was playable. Rosalina just lacks a bit of everything IMO. (Don't get me wrong, I have a killer B moveset for her) Just, don't think she's going to happen, frankly.

And, I edited and quoted you on my last post splash ~

 

[Mr. MR]

No Peach and Rosalina have nothing in common,
If they get lazy then they will base her off of Peach because of the similar appearance.

Doctor Mario probably did not take that long to make. It was kind of a half hearted character .

 

[HeyLolita]

Doctor Mario probably did not take that long to make. It was kind of a half hearted character .

Which is why, even at his worst, Junior could be included as a last minute clone.

 

[Mr. MR]

I think they wont bother with half hearted clones

They have time to make it different due to DLC and also because of character customization