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Your opinion of guns

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Frogger, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. Frogger

    Frogger God Complex

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    So yeah, I did this thread a couple of minutes ago but my mum was like "I need to check my bank and then rob you for some money" so I left it for a while, then I had to sign in again when I submitted, then it was gone. So Emma is angry indeed and cannot be bothered writing a lot, so I'll just feast off some of your replies.

    What's your opinion of guns? Whether they be for hun'n, self protection or whatever other use you can think of for a seemingly useless and dangerous object.

    So here's what I think, I'm completely against the use of guns unless you can be licensed, not like America where basically anyone can get hold of a gun, but the procedure the UK goes through. Which is like:

    Difficult, eh, well I should only see them used for reasons such as farming and whatnot, I don't really see the point in using them for fun, especially if you're going to pop a poor little bunny's head in with one. It's not like there's a shortage of fresh meat in your supermarket or anything, buy some and save yourself the hassle.

    I don't know how people can bring themselves to shooting something either, even if it's an animal, I'd still think of it as shooting my dog, and I'm not too keen on Ellie either, but I still couldn't kill anything.

    Then there's self defense, which I'm also against the use of. :thumbsup:

    If you're defending yourself in any situation I would rather run, grab something sharp or use my vocal chords like God intended me to do and squeal the hell like a woman. I think it's more likely that the other guy will be stronger than you, and have more experience using guns, and you guys who think it's good for using as protection, you're men, they hardly ever get jumped as much as women, and I'm weak and feeble.

    Anthony and I were talking about this as well, he asked me if I was being raped and some guy pinned me to the ground and a gun happened to be within reach, would I or would I not hesitate to shoot him? No, I wouldn't shoot the guy, one thing, my hands wouldn't be free, another being that he's obviously going to get there quicker aaannnd again, I couldn't kill someone living with guilt. They're probably disturbed or something, but it's no reason to shoot the guy. D:

    You can't use firearms as self defense here, it's not a good enough reason, and we've coped perfectly fine without them for the use of self protection for a good 60 odd years.

    Anyway, "it's not the guns that kill people, it's the people" yeah, so. Then governments shouldn't give these things out to the people so easily, restricting them is much more effective:

    Ne? Pretty sure guns do kill people.

    Okay, I'm expecting blueovalboy to get here, I'm looking forward to it. We need more debates threads, damnit.
     
    #1 Frogger, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  2. ROB64

    ROB64 40lb box of rape

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  3. Foxy

    Foxy Super Ninjarator
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    When I'm feeling better I'll probably get involved...

    For now I'll leave it at US needs new gun laws, a.s.a.p
     
  4. Frogger

    Frogger God Complex

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    So why in the world would you need one? xD
     
  5. ROB64

    ROB64 40lb box of rape

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    The crime rate dropped bacause of the law that was passed that made it where everyone has to own guns.

    That's the point of the law. Everyone has a gun in their house so nobody will try to break in without knowing they might be shot. The crime rate dropped 89% in 9 years (after the law was passed in 1982) and has stayed at at that level ever since then.
     
    #5 ROB64, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  6. Gikoku Harakami

    Gikoku Harakami ミュージック

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    Eh, I'm not a gun person. I feel that anyone who needs a gun to get any job done in their life, is rather pathetic.

    If there were any weapon I would be interested in, it would be a Katana.. for collecting purposes only.
     
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  7. Deanis

    Deanis Tip#67: Sell Your Wii

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    I'm glad in Australia guns are pretty much restricted to videogames.

    Theyre basically only used by the police as the biggest sign of "I'm boss, do as I say", but theyre hardly fired.

    There are hardly any reports of gun attacks here and its a good thing.

    So in conclusion, guns are good in videogames.... a way to beat your friends non-physically, in the most physically represented way. And are bad in real life, no one REALLY needs them.... if you get held up, you get insurance, if someone steals your car, you get insurance, if someone breaks into your house, you get insurance... you dont shoot them! Let the cops deal with them the next day...

    Ppl that use guns for recreational use are fine, as long as they got the gun through a very strict licensing procedure, and are in a club of some sort, and know self-control etc. But it is a fine line.
     
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  8. Frogger

    Frogger God Complex

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    I'm sure that'd scare the hell out of me being at home with kids and having a gun in my house, and if someone does try and break in, they will also have a gun, and they will have immediate access to it, and I will not. You either keep it in a place away from kids, which is difficult to reach or risk the wrong people getting ahold of it.

    I'd like a choice if I want a weapon in my house or not. Places like Devon have a low crime rate because there aren't that many people in the rural areas, so they can leave their cars unlocked and the good will of people won't do anything about it. I think that that's just your area, a city, and God that would go horribly wrong.

    Deaniis, Australia's just like us, and I like the way you think, it's actually logical. Police are never allowed to walk around the streets armed, they can only be called upon in situations if they ever need to use guns, sometimes this is too late, but I'm sure the police are trained to do other things to restrain people, and have backup.
     
    #8 Frogger, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
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  9. TacosTacos

    TacosTacos WiiChat.com>Match.com

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    I have never been comfortable around guns. They have always kinda freaked me out. Now, I live with someone who owns many guns. Before I moved in with him, I had almost no experience with guns. He hunts a lot, which I have come to respect. He eats almost everything he hunts. I think this is a right that everyone should have.

    I agree that there should be stricter policies in place when someone is obtaining a gun.

    I do not do it myself, but I can see why someone would have fun shooting guns at a range or something of the sort. Target practice, skeet shooting....sounds a lot of video games.....Duck Hunt.

    The self defense thing is a really tough one. Why would you assume that a man has more experience with a gun? The gun doesn't know who is holding it....it just shoots. There are many situations where lives could have been saved if there was a responsible gun carrying citizen present. Look at all of these mall shootings that go down. Some nut goes into a mall with a bunch of guns and starts shooting the place up. If there was someone with a gun to stop that person after they took the first shot, many innocent lives would be saved.

    As for your rape example, the same applies. Okay, so maybe you, being a woman who sees herself as hopeless and weak, could not access the gun and shoot the rapist. But, if you were using those womanly vocal chords like baby jesus intended you to, and someone showed up......say that person had a gun.....should they shoot the guy on top of you with a gun in his hand, or next to him? Say he reaches for the gun when your rescuer comes in.....do you want the rapist dead, or the both of you?
     
  10. Frogger

    Frogger God Complex

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    First, I'm getting through the raping situation, if someone was there, I'd want them to hit them, and then target the eyes, because they are in fact the weakest part of the body, and without sight then they're left to nothing. Nothing that will totally puncture through their corneas or anything, but I'd rather someone be blind and people get away safely than someone be shot and potentially killed.

    Obviously if self defense is the case then that person should just be left to die, in theory, you intended to kill them, and they were doing something so problematic to you that you just had to shoot them, so why should people fight to save their life? It's what you do, it's human rights, everyone deserves as much chance of living as the next guy.

    Target practice, eh, that actually seems fun, but I'd feel uneasy around people who were there as well, there's just so much trust you could have in people, and anyone could just go whack... And, I wouldn't trust myself with a gun either because I am so docile. I even fear when I'm cutting up my own oranges with a knife, if I was ever going to use a gun, I'd have to have like 1000 practice shots in the bag before I could fire anything confidently. D:

    You know, that mall shooting thing, I doubt anyone would have used a gun if they had one on them. There's people who would rather get the hell out than potentially save lives, and I believe that with adrenaline, I wouldn't risk my life shooting a lunatic. It's just like if someone's being beaten up, I've been sat on a bus many times watching fights start outside by the traffic lights, but I don't do anything about it, I guess it's just the way people are, not risk takers at all.

    Goinginthebathnowokay.
     
  11. King Wiired

    King Wiired HITLER ME JEZ

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    Since a young age, I've loved everything gun related for whatever strange reason, though I'm yet to shoot a proper gun. Toy guns, paintball guns, the lot. My mate is really good at paintballing, and invited me along one time, and said himself that my aim is great - possibly then then his.
    When I'm older, I'll probably get involved in some sort of gun related hobby (like drive-bys or something).

    But nah, my thought on Guns and Gun Crimes are completly different.
     
  12. Gikoku Harakami

    Gikoku Harakami ミュージック

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    A friend of mine owns a couple of guns, but he never uses them for stuff like killing people or other creatures. He just collects them for decorations and just for target practicing (like on cans and rocks). Which I have no problem with, since it's no different than taking a sword or nunchaku, and just freely practicing with them in the backyard or **** like that.

    Other than that, I don't carry any respect for those who just use guns for the sake of killing others because it's just "fun", or killing some animal because they want a nice new rug or headpiece for their naked wall. I have to say the same for those who even use them for self-defense. If you knew how to properly move & defend yourself, you wouldn't ever need one in the first place.

    Learn how to fight and defend yourself, carrying a gun doesn't make you any stronger than you were before.
     
  13. DBloke

    DBloke The last original
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    People that think guns are cool are useualy the wrong type of person
    Whats wrong with setlein things the good way
    By beatin some body to a pulp with your own fists

    I have more respect for some body that can fight than some body that carrys a gun for safety

    There only real good is in the army where there only rly nessaesary because the other side has them
     
  14. [DT]

    [DT] Gearhead Surf Coder

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    If I have time I'll deconstruct some of the comments already posted.

    Briefly:

    All of the granular assessment about "this form of defending yourself vs. a gun" - not based on anything that vaguely represents one of those situations.

    In the US there are background checks to purchase a handgun (plus a waiting period). It varies by state and I agree needs to be enforced and applied to all Firearms (ie., include longs: Rifles, Shotguns, Compacts, etc.)

    Florida for instance has a 3-Day wait period, a check through NCIS and a State level check via local CODBMS.

    In the US, you can acquire a firearm illegally in *minutes* in some areas (many of these are brought into the US through illegal mechanisms). The point being you could prevent purchase through all legal channels and the criminal contingent would still be able to easily acquire one.
     
  15. blueovalboy7

    blueovalboy7 They call me Hammy!

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    So I will be getting back to you on this, but for now I'm just going to leave it at, the US does not need new gun laws, they just need to enforce the ones already in place, and make sure they're enforced everywhere. I know for a fact that it is a hell of a lot harder to purchase a firearm here in California versus that of Texas or Arizona, because for the most part the liberals have a vice grip on this state. As for obtaining a firearm illegally, well you're not going to be able to stop that. People have been black-marketing/under the table selling firearms for decades and there are so many of them out there now, there is no way you would ever be able to do completely resolve that issue.

    Commenting on DT's remark about waiting 3 days in Florida, I believe it is 10 days here in California, a friend of mine purchased a shotgun not too long ago, and if my memory serves me correctly it was 10, might be longer for handguns, I'd have to look into it.

    Like I said I'll be back, that's all I have for now, I'm up 3 hours earlier than normal so the brain isn't running at full capacity yet. :D

    (I'm going to have to assume that 90% of the people in the UK are against firearms.)
     
  16. Celeste

    Celeste WiiChat Member

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    Absolutely inconceivable for me to comprehend how being raped is "no reason to shoot the guy." I'm at a loss for words, honestly. I can't even write anything somewhat eloquent regarding the thread right now...but alas, I'll try.

    I have been in a situation where rape was probably inevitable. The guy had a knife and was on top of me, in my room, in an empty apartment. I bit his hand so hard, while incapacitating him in another more graphic way, that he dropped the knife and I stabbed him as hard as I could. If I'd had access to a gun, it would've been used. I would never hesitate to use a gun for self protection. I live in constant fear, as unhealthy as that is. I talked to Anthony about this subject as well, right down to what kind of gun I'd buy if I could. I feel very vulnerable to men in this city. I can't count how many experiences I've had where I have -sometimes justified, sometimes overreaction- feared for my life. I know it sounds dramatic, but with respect, not many of you (Wiichat population being overwhelmingly male) have the same circumstances.

    I'm against shooting little animals and birds as a recreational activity. I'm against the ridiculous availability of weapons (to people with a history of mental illness ala Virginia Tech gunman) and redneck gun-toting subculture. Self defense though, is a completely acceptable purpose.
     
  17. sremick

    sremick Got lifeboat?

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    I'm a liberal, crunchy, tree-hugging, environmental pacifist... and I own a gun.

    Contradiction? No, just aware of reality.

    First of all, I live in Vermont. Vermont has some of the most-relaxed gun control laws in the entire USA. In fact, Vermont is only one of two states (the other being Alaska) where you don't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    If the gun-control advocates are to be believed, Vermont should be a warzone overrun with violence and crime. Actually, Vermont has some of the lowest per-capita crime in the entire country. In fact, "In almost all cases, the areas in the U.S. with the fewest gun control laws and also the highest gun ownership rates also have the lowest crime levels." Ponder that for a minute.

    Someone once asked why so much crime takes place in gun-free zones like schools and malls? The response was, probably for the same reason you don't see gunfights at gun-shows and police stations.

    Chew on this:
    http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/gunyeszonesign.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_doors.jpg

    And consider this:
    http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/sept11withgunrights.jpg

    "The only accomplishment of gun-control laws is to assure the criminals that their victims will be unarmed."

    Next, it's important to realize that control-control laws are pointless. Why? Well, we already have laws against robbery and murder. Someone who's going to commit one of those obviously doesn't care about the law. So how is a gun-control law going to deter them? If you think someone who wants a gun can't get one, even in the face of a ton of laws, you're wrong. If someone wants to break the law and commit a crime with a gun, they'll find a gun, regardless of any more laws they need to break. But what you've done is handicap the law-abiding citizen from defending themselves against the criminal.

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Gun control laws are like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

    For what it's worth, I'm not a hunter.

    Next, the whole "self-defense" thing... the gun is an equalizer. Only a gun can put a 100 lb woman on equal footing with her 200 lb attacker. Usually you don't even have to use it. Pull it out, or state, "you'd better stop right there, I have a gun" is usually enough. A gun's greatest use is as a deterrent... it makes you "un-victimizable".

    "Firearms reduce the power differential between the weak and the strong, making it harder for the strong to prey upon the weak. Being strong doesn't help much when you're dead or wetting your pants in fear because your potential victim shoved a barrel muzzle under your nose."

    "The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound. God may have made men and women, but Colt made them equal."

    http://www.a-human-right.com/guessing_s.jpg

    "If the only things needed to prevent crimes were laws and policemen, then there wouldn't be any crime statistics. But every murder, every rape victim is testimony to the fact that neither the law nor the police can protect individuals from criminal attackers. On the other hand, very respectable studies have shown that firearms are used by Americans more than a million times a year to prevent crimes, usually without having to be fired. "

    Some real-life examples...

    1/16/2002: 2 students with personal firearms subdue a shooter at a law school
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

    Woman forced to watch her parents be shot and killed because she forgot the pistol she normally carries in her purse (start reading 3rd paragraph):
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1611939,00.html

    Would-be robber shot by his intended victim
    http://www.charlotte.com/local/story/502952.html

    Homeowner shoots at would-be thief and scares him off
    http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_index.apx.-content-articles-JBF-2008-02-19-0026.html

    Neighbor runs to women's aid, shoots and kills attacker
    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/19/e19attackweb/

    Passing motorist stops an assault by pulling a gun on three attackers
    http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/02/daily_police_beat_32/print.html

    Man breaks into house, shot by woman living there
    http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/BREAKING01/80217002

    Armed homeowner arrives to interrupt an attempted burglary of his house
    http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages...n=7&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

    80yo shoots and scares off 2 armed robbers from his home
    http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d...ries/wfaa080213_mo_fightingback.bd009f6a.html

    Man protects home and mother from two robbers
    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/15280225/detail.html

    Something I wrote to someone else not long ago:

    "While you dislike guns, I doubt you dislike other people who have been trained to use one and own one for emergency situations. People like police officers or soldiers. Perhaps some enjoy guns and killing, but I think most do not. They are trained, and respect them, and don't look forward to having to pull the trigger if that's what it comes to. But they know that "**** happens", and they have the gun so that they're prepared if it does. Unfortunately, you can't always have a police officer the moment you need one. It's like first-aid... just because hospitals exist doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn first-aid themselves, how to stop bleeding, etc. In an emergency, you need to be able to act fast and take things into your own hands, as there might not be time to call in a professional."

    "Unfortunately there are bad people out there who do bad things to innocent people. I don't want to be caught unprepared if my number ever comes up, and end up just as an unfortunate statistic. I feel I have a responsibility to myself and anyone I care about to do something about a dangerous emergency situation and prevent harm from coming to myself or other innocent people. It's important to me to be able to fulfill this role, as protector of those I love, however unlikely or unpleasant it might be. I would take a bullet for you, but I'd much rather be in a position to prevent it from even coming to THAT, by having my own means of quickly suppressing the threat. I have no hesitation of pulling a gun on someone trying to hurt me or my family, but it's hard to do that if I don't have the means to do so. A guard-dog without teeth. "


    http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/5329-2/defender.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_protection.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_emergencies.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_faster.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_fightback.jpg
    http://www.a-human-right.com/s_options.jpg

    Now, to respond to some others on this thread:

    This is incorrect. If your attacker has a gun and you don't, you are the loser in this situation. The genie is out of the bottle: guns exist, and criminals will have them. Victims should get them too.

    A lot of people have depended solely on that. A lot of them are dead, either because their attacker had a gun, or had other means (strength, knife, etc) to overpower the victim. What if the attacker can run faster than you? (very likely, if they're stronger than you). What if there's no one to hear you scream? And "grabbing something sharp" is useless against someone stronger than you. A knife-like weapon's effectiveness is dependent on the strength of the wielder. A 200 lb man can easily subdue a 100 lb knife-holding woman. But if she holds a pistol, he now needs to pause and consider the situation. Even if he has a gun too, she is now his equal. More than likely, however, he wasn't expecting that and doesn't have a gun himself, expecting her to be easy prey. Not so.

    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
    (J.R.R.Tolkien, The Two Towers)

    I would suggest reading this:
    http://davekopel.org/2A/Foreign/SelfDefense-Equalizer.htm
     
  18. DBloke

    DBloke The last original
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    The defenin your self rule also alpiys to kinfes

    Some thin small with a sharp edge can not defend you from nothin
    Its primary useis are for attackin and cuttin food
    If you need to defend your self get a suit of armor

    Even if some one comes at you with a knife your bound to get cut

    I blame the current so called music

    Its also illegal to carry a gun in the UK (if your ont a cop on duty)
     
    #18 DBloke, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008
  19. Napalmbrain

    Napalmbrain WiiChat Member

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    I'm not going to advocate fighting as an alternative to shooting, but I agree that people who love guns are not the kind of people I want to hang around with. Guns are dangerous, plain and simple. If they get in the wrong hands, they're potentially lethal. Yesterday I read about two kids in Birmingham who discovered a gun lying about outside their house, and decided to shoot out their car window. Fortunately no one was hurt, but it exemplifies everything that's wrong with having them around. I'm glad there's no big gun culture here like in America.
     
  20. Gikoku Harakami

    Gikoku Harakami ミュージック

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    ^ exactly.
     
    #20 Gikoku Harakami, Mar 12, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2008

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