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Face it, Blu-Ray is needed

Discussion in 'Playstation Consoles' started by GamerCon, May 30, 2007.

  1. GamerCon

    GamerCon WiiChat Member

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    http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25597117&page=0

    Did any of you anti-ps3 types ever think that maybe, just MAYBE, Sony thinks that Blu-Ray WILL be needed for proper gaming storage this gen, and that they're not just trying to screw everyone over?

    Sure they wanted to push their next-gen video format, and the ps3 gave them the perfect means to do so, but it DOES still help with gaming, and they knew that, which is why they figured they'd get away with sticking a BR drive in the ps3.

    So, who can we look to for an answer for the great question, "Is Blu-Ray needed this generation?"

    ....the devs, and the devs have spoken. Blu-Ray IS needed. To quote various developers that have developed for many platforms:

    Mark Rein, VP of Epic Games, the developers of Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and many other games, had this to say about Blu-Ray in an interview with computerandvideogames.com:

    Mark Rein wrote:
    Julian Eggebrecht, of Factor 5, who are the developers of the great Star Wars Rogue Squardon games, andw who are currently developing their first title on a PLayStation platform, Lair, has this to say when questioned by IGN about the advantages of Blu-Ray:

    Julian Eggebrecht wrote:
    Brian Hastings, chief creative officer of Insomniac Games, the developers of the Ratchet & Clank series and Resistance: Fall of Man, had this to say about Blu-Ray in his blog "10 Reasons Why PS3 Will Win This Console Generation". This also explains why Gears of War's singleplayer was so short and the game had so few multiplayer maps. Maps take up space people! Read it here:

    Brian Hastings wrote:
    Also, Casey Hudson, the project director overseeing Mass Effect, has said that the game originally would've never been able to fit on a sinlgle DVD9, but that through heavy optimization, they managed to fit the game on one disc. How much of that time could've been spent working on the game itself, rather than working on how much space the game takes up? How much did they cut from the game to get it on one disc? How big will Mass Effect 2 be? Here's the quote:

    Joystiq interview with Casey Hudson wrote:
    And here's a quote from Hideo Kojima, in reference to the fact that MGS4 is pushing the limits of a single-layered BD-rom, which holds 25gb of data, in comparison to a dual-layered BD-rom which can hold 50 gb of data. This is due to his heavy use of uncompressed audio and other fancy things. After all, this is the "HD Era":

    Hideo Kojima wrote:
    And my final developer quote, is the controversial quote from David Jaffe, the director of the Twisted Metal and God of War series, that he made during "The Bonus Round" on Gametrailers.com. He said that he personally would've left Blu-Ray out of the ps3, in an effort to make it cheaper, get it to market sooner, and garner more sales. However, he also says that doing this most likely would screw him over inthe long run, as the storage space of Blu-Ray would most likely be needed:

    David Jaffe wrote:
    Also, it seems that Itagaki, the lead developer of Team Ninja, is also quite discontent with the use of DVD in the 360. In an interview with Famitsu, he said that just the Dead or Alive 4 TRAILER would take 2gb of space in high definition, so think about how much space even a tiny cutscene between every level in a game could take up. Here's some of what he said:

    Itagaki wrote:

    So, can anybody find a dev quote that says that Blu-Ray just isn't needed?
     
    #1 GamerCon, May 30, 2007
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
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  2. Shiftfallout

    Shiftfallout shiftfallout.com

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    BRAVO!

    Another freedom fighter has joined the ranks, the few... the proud.. and the $#%&ing logical!

    Good post. Rep for you, and maybe a message :wink:
     
  3. Haz

    Haz Nintendo Encyclopedia

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    What's happening now is paving the way for the future of commodity technology. The battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will determine the standard for the future. I agree that Blu-Ray does benefit the games industry, more so that it will the Film industry.

    However, Sony have never really been successful in new storage medium..... Betamax......MiniDisc.......

    Time will tell.
     
  4. Squall7

    Squall7 A li'l bit different

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    It all depends on what you want to do with it. Sure, there's a bigger storage space needed if you're going to up everything from resolution of graphics (as in resolution in texture mappings) and "uncompressed" sound.

    But then, we still have visually pleasant titles coming out on the 360 and Wii. Sure, they may not be as photorealistic, but then that's more about style than it is about needing more space.

    Also noted that most of those developers usually went for hyper-realism anyway. People like Nintendo don't. It's all choice about what kind of game you'd like.

    But developers may feel more creative freedom admittidly, but whether it's "needed" to make games, or simply needed to help the hyper-realistic is a different question. Also how the market reacts is another factor. If the market doesn't particularly care about the extra space, buying games indescriminately of size, (say for example, buying an 360 version of a game instead of buying the PS3 version, simply because it's cheaper), then that will show that the market isn't ready for it yet.

    All in all, I feel that storage size is just one aspect of gaming, and that point heavily depends on how well a developer could utilise the storage space, whether they will put in "uncompressed sound", and realstic texture mappings and such, or if they will ultimately focus on the gameplay experience. Not that it's an either/or deal, but focusing on one aspect may begin to happen.
     
  5. captainff

    captainff slightly amused

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    Did Super Mario World have blu-ray?

    Good data storage does not necessarily make a good game.
     
  6. Celestial

    Celestial WiiChat Member

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    Well done GamerCon! Looks like we got 2 very clever people able to defend the Ps3 now

    Good storange date doesn't make the game good, but better storage could make the game longer, making it more enjoyable and can add more features to a game... Like Spiderman 3 for example, you were able to play as Goblin in the Ps3 version
     
  7. GamerCon

    GamerCon WiiChat Member

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    I didnt know Blu-Ray was even out when Super Mario World was made.

    They did however utilize DVD's for games, making the jump from CD's and also making DVD a must format for last gen games.

    They can make good looking games but at a cost. Mass Effect doesnt look as good as it did a few months ago due to the fact they had to lower textures. If they wanted it to look good in the first place they would need a bigger disc or multiple ones. So if one Blu-Ray cost the same as one DVD9 then if they had to use two DVD9's instead of one Blu-Ray, would it start to cost more?

    Gears of War also looked good but suffered in game play. It ended up having few levels and a short story.

    "Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures. Resistance also had 30 single-player chapters, six multiplayer maps, uncompressed audio streaming, and high-definition mpegs. That all added up to a lot of space on the disc. Starting with Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction we are supporting texture streaming, which will make the worlds look even better, and will also consume even more space on disc."

    As you can see Resistance, not better in graphics but much longer game play and higher quality audio.

    Its really easy from a cosumers point of veiw to say "I dont need that" but when the game developers are saying "We need this, or something bigger" I dont think you can argue with them unless you also make games.

    Thanks Cel and yes, they added Goblin plus the Sixaxis to control him but i heard it sucked. Oh well, they tried right?

    A game dev said that. Its a good sign when they want to do the best they can to give you your moneys worth.

    I might still be waiting for that message Shift.:lol:
     
  8. Celestial

    Celestial WiiChat Member

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    Well yea it did suck... but it was the same as the 360 version but with more features, showing that Blu-ray can hold more... Right? I think?
     
  9. captainff

    captainff slightly amused

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    My point precisely........ Having a massive storage capacity does not automatically guarantee a great game. Many old games are great even though they could fit 10 times over onto a regular DVD.

    I am not anti-PS3, modern games or big storage capacity. I just think that good games are good games, and bad games are bad games, irrespective of the disk space they take up.
     
  10. E7ernal

    E7ernal Error Getting Statistics

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    Sony have probably learned from their mistakes though.
    I mean, Minidisk was just inconveniant for use (and I got tired of lugging around a bag full of them for long journeys).
    I wasn't around when Betamax popped up but i'm guessing it was overpriced compared to VHS. Luckily ATM Blue-Ray and HD-DVD aren't competing too much in terms of price so if BD gets enough support early on they'll be able to afford a price-drop.
     
  11. GamerCon

    GamerCon WiiChat Member

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    Yea pal, it did show it could hold more. I really doubt that wouldve fit on the 360 version or they would have. Also GRAW 2 went to PS3 and got some additional gameplay:

    Key Differences

    * Six Axis features:Controller features used for Mitchell & Cross-com control
    * SP: Drive the supports (drone, M.U.LE) with the Six Axis functionality
    * SP/MP : Change Mitchell stances with the Six Axis
    * SP : change the Rules of Engagement with the Six Axis
    Consistency increased between SP & MP: Scope, Movement, Aiming…
    * PS3 specifics adaptation of controls: Menus, Shoot button…
    * 14 additional maps resulting in a total of 32 MP maps!!!

    Multiplayer Additional Information

    * 32 new adversarial multiplayer maps up to 16 players, an expanded arsenal of multinational weapons, character customization options, new optimizing re-spawn system, new female operatives and hundreds of new game mode options are available.
    * 2 new coop modes, “Evasion” and “Exfiltration”, to vary the game experience in multiplayer.
    * 6 missions co-op campaign with a fully immersive experience and storyline. Featuring open-ended play that rewards teamwork as you play with up to sixteen players.

    So as you can see, it does make the games better.
     
  12. GamerCon

    GamerCon WiiChat Member

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    When you make a game let me know cause real game developers are saying they need more space and they are the ones making good games. Hideo is complaining about the BD cause its to small. I couls listen to you about how space doesnt matter and say you make a presuasive argument, but you dont. Since game devs are saying space matters, im going to say your full of crap and so will they.
     
  13. jledesma

    jledesma PS-What?

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    I do believe more space can be a clean advantage. Unfortunately it is a double edge weapon. It can also mean that developers can get lazy and stop optimizing their codes just because they have tons of space to waste and lots of horsepower on the console.

    I remember when an OS (say Windows) could be installed in less than 10 megs of HD and could run with less than a meg on ram. Today you need 4 gigs of HD and 1 gig of ram to do the same you could do with window 3.11 why? well because machines have bigger drives, more ram and a whole lot more processing power. So instead of optimizing codes to the max now they simple let "first draft" codes go into production.

    Let's hope this time around developers realize the potential of the new storage capabilites and see it as a privilege to have it, not a right.
     
  14. Samus101

    Samus101 Super Hunter

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    I'm not going to say the PS3 stinks, but I say you should just build a good comp. :thumbsup:
     
  15. WII60

    WII60 WiiChat Member

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    people think to much of the future, live the present.
     
  16. Celestial

    Celestial WiiChat Member

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    Yea but computers have crappy games :(
     
  17. GamerCon

    GamerCon WiiChat Member

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    Why build a PC just to have to rebuild it in a year when a game comes out that wont run on your hardware and end up spending tens of thousands on it when you can buy a PS3 and know that every game thats released will run perfectly fine on it, even in five years.

    or in the PS2 case, 8.
     
    #17 GamerCon, May 30, 2007
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
  18. WII60

    WII60 WiiChat Member

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    what?...a lot of games for the 360 and ps3 are being released for pc + pc will always have more space/better graphics etc
     
  19. WII60

    WII60 WiiChat Member

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    sounds like someone like the ps3
     
  20. Celestial

    Celestial WiiChat Member

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    They're not my type of games... and it's kinda easy to get a Ps3 as you just have to buy it and plug it in, kinda simple
     

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