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Your opinion of guns

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Frogger, Mar 12, 2008.

  1. AndThen?

    AndThen? pull the trigger.

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    I don't have time to respond the way I normally do because I'm going out, but my closing statement would be that a gun is not a valid protection instrument in my circumstance, in my opinion.
     
  2. Eagles

    Eagles WiiChat Member

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    Yes I do realise that, but I believe 3 times more is a considerable amount.

    So why give these "f-ed up kids" more chance of getting hold of a gun?

    May I ask how often you hear of propane tank deaths compared to that of guns?

    Could you give us some up to date figures please? I want to see long term figures not meaningless short term ones.

    Maybe some statistics like this would be more appropriate:

    Sources: [14] = Mouzos, Jenny (2000). Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 151: The licensing and registration status of firearms used in homicide. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24162-7; ISSN 0817-8542.

    [15] = a b Mouzos, Jenny (2002). Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 230: Firearms theft in Australia. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24265-8; ISSN 0817-8542.

    [16] = CLASS (2003). "Science in the Service of Politics". 

    [17] = John Garnaut. "Gun laws credited as lifesavers". Brisbane Times. 

    :lol: x 100 . No facts have been presented here, merely opinions. In general sremick statistics have come from fairly unknown sources and many counter examples have been made. It might be best if you read everyones posts rather then just his. ;)
     
    #182 Eagles, Mar 15, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2008
  3. Extra Life Mushroom

    Extra Life Mushroom Just That Great

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    I understand guns to a point, but I think they are much too glorified by the media. (in the US at least)

    Take for example my situation. I have never fired a firearm in my life. Be that as it may my fiance and I live in the poor side of the community at the moment. (poor college students)

    We have been broken in on several times. usually nothing is taken although my wii was stolen once. (thankfully I got it back) So to say there is no need for protection is to play ignorant. But then again on could simply use a knife instead of a gun and be equally effective.

    I have no issue with guns but I'm not a gun nut like most people down here where I live. I'm more than likely going to be joining the military soon so the likelihood of me becoming more than well acquainted guns is high.

    I think the laws should be something like they are in other countries. Most people whom have them don't need them, and those that do need them are usually demonized for using them.

    There is no need for hunting in today's modern society. And hunting isn't really as sport to me so much as it is a test of patience. A sport to my is when two people of equal skill compete in a friendly manner to see which one is more talented at performing said task. And in the terms of hunting it's not really fair to the animal. You hide in a tree with a veritable sniper rifle minus the silencer and wait until he's not looking to shoot him. Kinda cowerdly in my eyes.
    A real huntsman is a person whom would stand toe to toe with whatever they're hunting and face it with nothing more than their wits and maybe a blade. That is true combat and the animal has just as much a chance of winning as you do. A fair fight essentially. But most laugh at me when say that, because it's not important enough to them to risk their lives. And to that I say, "Now you see my point, hunting in today;s world is not necessary."

    So in summation, I think guns for protection's sake are a good idea if truly needed, but if the police did their jobs as they were meant to then in theory we wouldn't need to get our own protection. (the police in my town are useless.)

    So guns are a rather bad idea for the majority of the world. You would only need one if you plan on killing someone or plan on someone trying to kill you, either way it's a bad scenario and most mortals don't have to worry about it.

    (the following statement is kinda of a reference to my in-laws..they're the kind of hard-core southerners who think having enough weaponry in the home to fight a small war is a good thing :rolleyes:)

    they just like to over react and think that having a gun rack next to their mounted deer heads makes them look "cool" or "manly", to me it just makes you look like a fool who plays with something dangerous that you don't really need.
     
  4. powerpc127

    powerpc127 Bustin makes me feel good

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    I feel that the only reason to own a gun is (maybe) sport. And I don't mean killing animals, I mean shooting targets. I say "maybe" because there are some people that do use them for sport but are just idiots around them. Like the guy who tried hitting the rafters of his barn with the butt of a loaded rifle to make the chickens get off it.
    As far as self defense, use a knife if you really want to be menacing. And for hunting, use a bow. That makes it a little more fair for the deer. (I'll do the whole moral debate later. Maybe when it's not 4 AM)
     
    #184 powerpc127, Mar 15, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2008
  5. Foosoo

    Foosoo Banned

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    Who said there was no need for guns? Minigun FTW!!!!!!!!

    [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roVCZ0uGMfQ[/MEDIA]
     
  6. Sparx

    Sparx WiiChat Survivor

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    What movie is that? Predator or Commando?

    Wow talk about bad aim, if I was there I would **** my pants!
    Also, in real life you would need ear plugs for that if you don't wanna go deaf.

    My Strategy: Hide in a tree and wait for someone to come then blast their brains out. Thats how I would survive.
     
  7. Foosoo

    Foosoo Banned

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    That's from predator, one of my favorite films.
     
  8. Sparx

    Sparx WiiChat Survivor

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    Matrix ftw :D
     
  9. Diomedes

    Diomedes WiiChat Member

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    like the hydrogen bomb, guns should have never been made. People do not realise the extent of the damage these instruments of death can cause.
     
  10. sremick

    sremick Got lifeboat?

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    Actually, they're nothing like the hydrogen bomb.

    The hydrogen bomb is an indiscriminate weapon that causes mass death on an epic scale in the hundreds of thousands. A gun in my hand pointed at someone threatening my life or home is a precision deterrent for what could have been a crime or tragedy.
     
  11. Frogger

    Frogger God Complex

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    You're acting like the human race is perfect, do you ever wonder why communism didn't work out? You can just say that "We should never have war" and a lot of people would agree, but, what else are we supposed to do?
     
  12. sremick

    sremick Got lifeboat?

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    Correct. Human beings are fallible. If we take away the protections against human fallibility just because those who have failed might abuse them, then we only fail more.

    Anything can be abused. Anything can be used wrong. Don't punish everyone for the weakness of the few.
     
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  13. ElronMac

    ElronMac WiiChat Member

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    Well I have read this post and now it's time to say something.

    First, to Sremick, very nicely done. You have done an excellent job in advocating gun ownership, I agree with you 100%, even though you are a tree hugger...lol. Thank You

    Second, to all those who have stated they would be able to defend themselves without a gun against an attacker with one, SHUT UP. You are truly living in a reality that does not exist. There has been one person who has posted besides myself that can actually say they have been in that situation and that knows exactly what it is like to feel totally and completely helpless. I can guarantee each and every one of you that if I put you in that situation your very first reaction would be fear, and most of you would end up wetting your pants and crying, your next reaction would be to flee and you would either end up shot in the back, stopped and shot in the front or on the off chance that you actually have the speed to outrun a bullet you would get away. The first time it happened to me I wet my pants and then lost all my money, the second I ended up doing much better and it only took a warning shot to the assailants feet. A weapon does equalize the situation and nothing causes criminals to become honest quicker than a bullet. I hope and pray that I never have to be in a situation like that again, but I know that if I am at least I am going in on equal terms

    Third, I own guns, not a gun, but several. I always have and I always will. I also have children, those also will never go away, sometimes they need to though:lol: Amazingly I have them both in the same house and I have no issues with that, now some of you may ask how is that even possible. Well it's simple, EDUCATION, that is the key to everything. As a parent it is my responsibility to educate my children, whether it be on gun safety, sex, drugs, whatever, but anything that can cause them harm it is my job to educate them.

    Fourth, Oddly the reason I have guns is not primarily self defense, the reason I have them is to provide food for my table. Most of you will not be able to comprehend this but, for most of my life I have eaten only what wild game I could hunt and butcher myself, why? Well a couple reasons, one money, it's just simply cheaper than buying it, two, thats how I was raised, I really didn't know you could buy meat in a store until I was in my teens.

    Now to all of you who think gun control laws are the solution, they really and truly aren't. Probably the best example I can come up with is AIDS. Lets think about this for a moment. Lets say that in the late 80's and early 90's when AIDS was hitting home hard in every demographic of the population that sex was outlawed and put under federal regulation, do you really believe that would have stemmed the tide? No really, do you? Of course not, prohibiting sex would have only increased it by taking something that really isn't the problem, and for lack of a better word martyring it. Thats not what we did though, we turned to education instead, we took the time educate ourselves, our children and everyone around us, of the dangers involved in unprotected sex. Now look at where we are at, yes aids is still a problem and very serious one, but it's growth is not on upward spiral due to the fact that we have become educated.

    It is in the country I live in a persons personal choice to own a gun or not, and that is fine. But if you don't own one that doesn't give you the right to say I shouldn't either. For those of you elsewhere in the world more power to you, if your country has laws prohibiting gun use and they work wonderful.

    Bottom line is education, be responsible and take the time to educate yourself and those you are with if you are going to have and use a gun. Unfortunately in our cultural they are also used as toys and that in my opinion is a huge mistake. Never take something a child could actually do major damage with and tell them its a toy, in my house my children have never had toy guns, just the real ones and those they are not allowed to touch, look at, go near, think about or anything else, not that they could because they are all safely locked up. Anyway I could go on forever about educating people, but I won't. Just wanted to say that in order to effect change the most successful and positive way has always been and will always be education, regardless of the topic.
     
    #193 ElronMac, Mar 20, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2008
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  14. Brawny

    Brawny Anglophobiphile

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    If you weren't in a fan club, I'd respect you so much more. XD

    +rep.
     
  15. ElronMac

    ElronMac WiiChat Member

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    Ok fine I quit....lol.
     
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  16. AndThen?

    AndThen? pull the trigger.

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    Okay - I've never said I'd be able to defend myself against an intruder wanting money with a gun, I'd just rather neither of us had one. Where I live, gun controls do work - the burglars we have are not armed with a gun. My house has been robbed a couple of times, but I've never been in the house when it has been robbed. You've had personal experience and I respect that, and I'm not saying anything you did was wrong, but I do disagree with a bit of it. Intruders would be hesitant to shoot someone, they'd be relying on the person being shocked; for the simple reason that armed robbery < murder.

    Despite my cousins incident, I'm not saying that children can't be educated against guns. I agree with you in that gun education is important - it exists even in Australia - but hey, (stemming from your comparison to AIDS) people are still being shot who I think would otherwise be alive. In my country, the only times I've ever seen guns are when they're attached to the waist of policemen, and I don't live a sheltered life.

    That's the way you were raised so I can't really argue with that. I'm not entirely sure where I stand with hunting - I'll never do it (I can't bring myself to kill another animal... insects don't count), but in a way it's more humane and less wasteful than food we buy in the supermarket (I watched wayyy too many animal cruelty videos when I was vego).

    I strongly disagree with this comparison. Firstly, AIDS is still (well, it was in 2002) the fourth leading cause of death in the world, and though it may not be a problem where you live, in sub-Saharan Africa they're having a lot of trouble with it. The prevalence in the world is totally different. While AIDS is mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, guns are a major problem to the developed world. No matter how much educating we do, there are always going to be times when someone (be they heavily intoxicated, mentally unstable or retarded) will pull a gun on an individual with the intention of shooting. So while AIDS can be diminished by education (which I totally agree with), gun control laws are a more effective way of combatting shootings. Banning sex is entirely different to banning guns. Sorry, this comparison didn't work for me.

    Wow, he accepts a different view might work.

    Oh wow. The fact that you can step back and see that the gun situation you're in isn't perfect amazes me. Good on you.

    I agree with Brawny, but still... +rep.
     
  17. Sparx

    Sparx WiiChat Survivor

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    Wow thats one long post.
     
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  18. Diomedes

    Diomedes WiiChat Member

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    The procedure to get a gun license here in australia is good, but could be better. While being at one of the lessons (not for myself mind you) i could see that the majority of the class were adults behaving like 5 year old d**kheads, the police had to threaten them to settle things down. It still astounds me that these sort of people are still allowed to carry firearms, even in Australia. Getting a license should be very difficult, but not impossible. So those who respect handling of firearms are able to do so, but those who want it for the *cool* factor are easily ward off by the intimidating procedure.
    "Protective" weapons should be altered in a way so the shot does not pose any lethal risk and only injures the assailant and enabling speedy flight. Eye for an eye technique doesn't work well these days
     
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  19. Sparx

    Sparx WiiChat Survivor

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    Uh huh...I'm a retard compared to you people...

    Soo....what your trying to say is...Guns=Bad?
     
  20. Diomedes

    Diomedes WiiChat Member

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    Weapons used the wrong way=bad
     

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